Faction: The Franks

[wackyserious]

Frankish Horsemen - Old body mesh

The clothes are based on Stuttgart Psalter depictions

[Andrettin]

On 20.4.2016 at 4:05 PM, wackyserious said:

Frankish Horsemen - Old body mesh

The clothes are based on Stuttgart Psalter depictions

Did you see the Frankish references I posted in the message? I can provide sources for them if you want, too.

[wackyserious]

@Andrettin Yes, I saw them, I'll also add those as texture variants too

The reason I created the ones above first was because, those textures are based on a primary source from that period, the Stuttgart Psalter

[wackyserious]

Western European Clergy

[Andrettin]

6 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Western European Clergy

Did you find sources for the appearance of Frankish clergy? I've looked around a lot for that but couldn't find anything.

[wackyserious]

Edit: Another source on Anglo-Saxon clergy http://regia.org/research/church/church4.htm

I've found this one before, I'll try create a texture based on the monk illustrated below

I've got a new simpler variant of the clergy texture, a plain long dress

Edited April 22, 2016 by wackyserious

[Andrettin]

Thank you!

[tlauick_19]

una unidad de alcanse como un andero especial 

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 hours ago, tlauick_19 said:

una unidad de alcanse como un andero especial 

 

De que hablas exactamente ? Tirador de hacha( francisca)

[tlauick_19]

24 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

De que hablas exactamente ? Tirador de hacha( francisca)

que tengan arqueros porque , para la epoca seguro tenian , ballesteros , y el tirador de hachas podria ser una unidad de alcance ,o un campeón 

[Lion.Kanzen]

50 minutes ago, tlauick_19 said:

que tengan arqueros porque , para la epoca seguro tenian , ballesteros , y el tirador de hachas podria ser una unidad de alcance ,o un campeón 

No lo dudo, pero hay que ver que tan frequented era su uso.

 

i don't doubt , we must to know if was used frequently.

crossbow( may be)

Axe thrower will be a Champion.

[Sidi]

On 27/07/2014 at 3:05 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Don't forget banners ( rally point and garrison banner)

 

On 11/05/2015 at 5:44 PM, wolflance said:

Sorry to barge in.

IMO the Francisca could be a secondary ranged attack a.l.a. pilum, from a realism point of view. It gradually fell out of use during Carolingian times anyway. For other ranged, they could also have longbow and javelin?

Not an expert, but francisques were used systematically, and as you say, were a secondary means of attack. Wikipedia cites a history book that claims the francisque is used to break shields and morale, and inflict minor injuries, just before melee. Therefore, it could be a weapon that causes crushing damage (to damage shield bearing units), with a short range (12m is quoted) and a *very long* reloading time.

The French wikipedia makes additional claims but with no source. Roughly, that elite troops commonly had francisques, but not basic units. Also, that throwing axes were less accurate and travelled less far than javelins. Their advantage over them might be heavier weight and the systematic presence of barbs (the axe head).

I don't think 0ad has mechanisms for debuffs yet? If so, then it could apply debuffs to enemy shielded units whilst the francisque bearer is in proximity?

Also, there is no mechanism for switching between weapon types?

 

Javelins were not used very often any more, apparently with the exception of Norse troops (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angon). The interesting bit is the description of barbs, which turns javelins into pretty much the same thing as throwing axes: shield breaking and general-incapacitating devices. Length differences between angons and axes could allow some differentiation between factions in terms of range, damage [and debuff]. It seems to me that javelins fell out of use before axes, too?

 

As for longbows, there are few historical records of their use on the continent. Some 4th century viking longbows were found, so researching viking archery might yield results. The Welsh had them in the 6th century (following https://www.wpi.edu/Pubs/E-project/Available/E-project-050814-204326/unrestricted/Longbow_vs._Crossbow.pdf), but the English did not generalise them until the 13th century. So longbows could be a faction-specific weapon for Vikings and Welsh, if you have equivalents in 1,000 AD?

 

Crossbows appeared in antiquity China and Greece (gastrephetes, 400BC) before the Franks, and in fact the Romans, even existed. I think 0ad accounts for them very well with scorpions, as giant crossbows. It seems the early models were rather inconvenient and did not take up.

 

What's interesting is comparing crossbows and longbows. Crossbows were common in Frankia at least in the 12th century when the Church forbade its usage, because it was a "coward's weapon" which did not require training to be used. Both weapons could penetrate armour, but crossbows were easier to use and possibly widespread up to 200 years before English longbows (but long after Welsh longbows). In terms of game mechanics, this could be translated in terms of unit availability (city phase for ELB, town for WLB and CB), training time (ELB longer, but probably leading to better troops). Also, crossbow units eventually became elite units for both Franks and English, so there could be a cheap-@#$% crossbow-using citizen-soldier and a champion crossbowman with better armour, health and damage.

Another difference is that crossbows are much, much slower to operate. It takes 5 times more to reload a crossbow than a long bow. Projectiles have equivalent speed, but bolts are heavier. This seems to be a difference that is shadowed by speed of use and troop training. In a skirmish setting, it would make sense for longbow archers to beat crossbowmen, and it could (but maybe would not) make sense for crossbows to deal higher pierce damage to armour, or some additional crush damage to account for their weight and size.

Further details of that historical report on the economics of both weapons: bows were cheaper to make (mostly wood of course). As I've discussed, troop training required a lot of time. Crossbows required forge skills (so there could be blacksmith techs for moving from the peasant crossbow to the elite one, e.g. a +50% attack / +20% cost and training time type of tech), but a regiment could be trained in two weeks according to that report. So the individual troop should be available early, train fast, but cost both metal and wood.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Sidi

[Stan`]

Quote

I don't think 0ad has mechanisms for debuffs yet? If so, then it could apply debuffs to enemy shielded units whilst the francisque bearer is in proximity?

The games supports that, so that can be done.

 

Quote

Also, there is no mechanism for switching between weapon types

Ticket #252 does that. It's being reviewed

[niektb]

I've committed a bunch of carolingian template modifications and with them the Caroligian Civ bonuses:

First of all Carolingians can build a Palace: this building generates metal, trains heroes and builds siege weapons. 

Next to that (as suggested by LordGood) the Carolingian gatherers will have a bigger gather capacity and all have a movement speed bonus aura.

Now we need to come up with a unit, hero and navy roster (both champion and Civ soldiers). Let's start with the unit roster  

[tlauick_19]

se podría tener una animación de la caballería con lanza en ristre cuando carguen  

[Lion.Kanzen]

@niektb

[Lion.Kanzen]

finish

original psd in attached

 

carolingians.psd

Edited November 19, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[niektb]

Very nice!   The only thing is that the shield border is clipped on the sides. It would be nice if you could fix that  (and maybe smooth the border a little bit too, it is a tad pixelated at the top and bottom)

[Lion.Kanzen]

yes i have the problem i need found good shield border(metalic) I used a seleucid one but... If you can help me to save time. the existeting in game are very low quiality

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 minutes ago, niektb said:

Very nice!   The only thing is that the shield border is clipped on the sides. It would be nice if you could fix that  (and maybe smooth the border a little bit too, it is a tad pixelated at the top and bottom)

never mind I will made a new one border.

[Lion.Kanzen]

carolingians.psd

[Lion.Kanzen]

@niektb the mod dont run in svn version but indeed A21

[niektb]

@Lion.Kanzen: Yes, I did not bump the version number because I wanted to see if there were any gamebreaking bugs reported (which could require a re-release or so). I just bumped it so you should be able to test out your icon in game  

[Lion.Kanzen]

ok, I willl test, with the new Emblem.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Spoiler