The Council of Modders

[Radagast.]

I'm looking forward to see the outcome of this council. Still have to grasp the full implications of this council. Looks like you are much more familiar with what is going on ...

[Lion.Kanzen]

I want Join forces. Zophim and me for now are only Devs in Fallen Empires Studios ( Aristeia Mod Team).

[Stan`]

What kind of decisions will make this council ? What is the importance the dev will give to it are good questions.

We should also make the link between the track and the forums.

[Romulus]

Should you BTW create a list+form which people can use to apply?

That could be one possibility, or we may setup a thread for recruitments both here and elsewhere.

When I have time off, I will contemplate.

I'm looking forward to see the outcome of this council. Still have to grasp the full implications of this council. Looks like you are much more familiar with what is going on ...

This council will unite sub organizations which are modding 0 A.D. Under one committee, for the benefit of 0 A.D. as a whole. Forming and combining a team comprised of studios and freelance modders.

I want Join forces. Zophim and me for now are only Devs in Fallen Empires Studios ( Aristeia Mod Team).

Much accepted. Your fine work will be needed

What kind of decisions will make this council ?

I'm not sure I get what you asking here?

What is the importance the dev will give to it are good questions.

This is irrelevant for time being, because this isn't even an entity/council yet.

Once we set up, and start functioning, we will then take it from there

We should also make the link between the track and the forums.

You have worked with the dev in the past. Therefore you have a better communication with them.

You can be the spokesperson for this council, and present our ideas and requests to the main dev.

But your 3D skills will be appreciated and needed in our endeavors

Edited February 25, 2014 by Romulus

[Radagast.]

This council will unite sub organizations which are modding 0 A.D. Under one committee, for the benefit of 0 A.D. as a whole. Forming and combining a team comprised of studios and freelance modders.

That's probably the best that can happen to 0 A.D. other than all RTS and RPG genres suddenly going open source or giving their art and dev departments at our service. So seen realistically, I thank you for setting this up. Me probably am the one that is responsible for the confusion due to my initial post. Thanks for clarifying.

So, of course I offer my bow as a help if you wish.

[Romulus]

So, of course I offer my bow as a help if you wish.

We will definitely require your expertise.

@stansislas

I think his first question was who makes decisions?

Because this is a council, I'd like to see decisions being made all amicably as though we were at a roundtable.

Suggestions, ideas, comments, etc, will all be debated on, and then if everyone comes to an agreement, we execute those presentations accordingly.

@Lion.Kanzen

If you want to design us a logo, I'm thinking a nice wooden round table with the 0 A.D. Logo on it. With circular text "The Modders Council of 0 A.D. ( TMC0AD)

[hollth]

I think what a lot of people are getting at is that this

This council will unite sub organizations which are modding 0 A.D. Under one committee, for the benefit of 0 A.D. as a whole. Forming and combining a team comprised of studios and freelance modders.

isn't really an explanation of what it actually does. It;s more who comprises it and one very very broad 'goal' (i.e. for the benefit of 0 A.D.) I feel like most people are having trouble coming to terms with what it is you want because it hasn't really been decided/explained well.

It might be best to come up with some specific things that this council is supposed to do and why it is better than what is already in place so people have more of an idea.

I could be wrong but that's my interpretation of how it is.

[LordGood]

Single modding studios with few specialists will benefit from a pool of contributors rather than just the few they have, the individual goals are defined by the mods themselves. I think it's a nice system, but attentions may be split if more than one studio decides to work on their mods simultaneously.

A game that comes with many mods attached is very appealing to a public that wants a dynamic game experience, therefore it would benefit the entire project to have many modding studios. The problem though, is that many of these mods stagnate after a while. (some of the modders divert attention to the main project, lose interest, ect.)

having a broadened 'modder pool' might help individual modders overcome snags that might break the momentum of their modding.

but of course, asking for help was never out of the question to begin with

[Stan`]

What I meant by "What kind of questions[...]" Is what importance should be given the council ? Should it be the second supreme institution for everything going on in this forums ?

[Lion.Kanzen]

We will definitely require your expertise.

@stansislas

I think his first question was who makes decisions?

Because this is a council, I'd like to see decisions being made all amicably as though we were at a roundtable.

Suggestions, ideas, comments, etc, will all be debated on, and then if everyone comes to an agreement, we execute those presentations accordingly.

@Lion.Kanzen

If you want to design us a logo, I'm thinking a nice wooden round table with the 0 A.D. Logo on it. With circular text "The Modders Council of 0 A.D. ( TMC0AD)

Ok I have some task:

0A.D icon.

Rome Mod Eagle.

Now these.

[Romulus]

I think what a lot of people are getting at is that this

isn't really an explanation of what it actually does. It;s more who comprises it and one very very broad 'goal' (i.e. for the benefit of 0 A.D.) I feel like most people are having trouble coming to terms with what it is you want because it hasn't really been decided/explained well.

It might be best to come up with some specific things that this council is supposed to do and why it is better than what is already in place so people have more of an idea.

I could be wrong but that's my interpretation of how it is.

At this early stage in the Council's formation, we cannot state what the objectives are until we have assessed the skills of the members in question. Then we can start assigning tasks.

The point of clarity is still pending, though usually the modders signed up here have the idea based on the understanding of modding, and that this council is not formulated for public audience, but rather modders and artists who are savvy with all that entails modding and wishes to sign up.

What I would like this council to eventually become, is a backup strategy for the dev.

And this council will be and is composed of individuals which have a passion for this game. And with that, we will take this game beyond the boundaries and add and add huge amounts of content to it that it will truly become a very satisfying RTS that people like us crave very much.

Single modding studios with few specialists will benefit from a pool of contributors rather than just the few they have, the individual goals are defined by the mods themselves. I think it's a nice system, but attentions may be split if more than one studio decides to work on their mods simultaneously.

A game that comes with many mods attached is very appealing to a public that wants a dynamic game experience, therefore it would benefit the entire project to have many modding studios. The problem though, is that many of these mods stagnate after a while. (some of the modders divert attention to the main project, lose interest, ect.)

having a broadened 'modder pool' might help individual modders overcome snags that might break the momentum of their modding.

but of course, asking for help was never out of the question to begin with

I agree, and this part of what I was looking at here. Diversity and a system where the exchange of problem solving takes place. All modding projects turning one cog.

What I meant by "What kind of questions[...]" Is what importance should be given the council ? Should it be the second supreme institution for everything going on in this forums ?

Like I said to holith, this really delves into optimism, and right now, we haven't got clarity in our objectives until a skill analysis has taken place.

Whether the dev recognizes this council or not, it isn't expected. And if any sort of importance and significance bestowed upon the Council by the main dev, it will mean that this Council is presenting attractive content and is contributing to the main game. For that to happen we will have to recruit a vast number of modders and designers to take part, but as it stands now, with our current members,

Hephaestion

niektb

Lion.Kanzen

Zophim

thamlett

And yourself

I'm convinced we have a strong and highly skilled foundation to build upon and start performing.

Ok I have some task:

0A.D icon.

Rome Mod Eagle.

Now these.

Thanks Lion

For the Council's logo being a round table, can you give a nice varnished gloss? A dark varnish

Also you have chairs around it too

Edited February 26, 2014 by Romulus

[Romulus]

To the Council

Our primary objective list

1: Setting up office.

I call on all Council members to decide on our place of communication.

Should we use and IRC channel, or use a thread like this? We need a "premises"

2: Council Logo

This is pending. Lion.Kanzen is taking care of the logo.

3: Skill Assessment

All Council members should specify his or hers skills and fields of expertise. We need to know who's who and who can do what.

4: Signatures

I really am in support of this and am backing this.

I propose that all members be tagged with a signature that identifies you with along with your skills.

This is really also pending, because as soon as Lion gets that logo done, he can quickly do signatures for us.

What I'm doing, is as soon as I have time off, I will setting up a hub to combine our git organizations. And lay the foundation for ease of access for tasks etc. I have been very busy lately, so be patient.

[Stan`]

2.I'm for IRC.

3.About skills and personnal information well :

My name is Stanislas Dolcini I'm french i leave near Paris (GMT +1)

I'm not bad at 3D though not one of the best around here.

I have C knowledge though not sure how to use it

I have some Javascript knowledge too but It's more website related

I have some experience in doing tutorials, though i never made one in English

I have some Knowledge about gimp, can make some textures from scratch

That's little but I'm willing to improve and to be involved.

4. I'm also for the signature, though I really, really, really (really ?) want to get into the official Art team.

[Radagast.]

This is really also pending, because as soon as Lion gets that logo done, he can quickly do signatures for us.

The idea of LordGood that this council will help overcome low tides is what I love most. It's good you put this up, Romulus.

Let's save Lion from the signatures and simply take the Council Logo? That even had enough room next to your current logo, Romulus.

The skillset, well, it's not much.

• Blender (Modelling, a bit sculpting, limited animation, basic UV unwrapping, basic texturing Python/Addons, ...)
• Programming (usually hardware, so C, C++, Java, Python, ...),
• Photoshop limited and abandoned because too expensive and not open source => GIMP.
• History & Fantasy - my passion.

Currently heavily involved in Hardware and AI developments and writing my final thesis.

[sanderd17]

4. I'm also for the signature, though I really, really, really (really ?) want to get into the official Art team.

There's no reason why you can't be on the team and work on a mod. RotE was mainly formed by team members. Though sadly, quite busy members.

[niektb]

IRC might be good, but has some inconveniences like different time zones we live in, the lack to post images and give a proper layout to long texts. Personally I like the group PM's.

Some info about me:

My name is Niek ten Brinke and I live in the Netherlands. I can do some image editing/texturing using Gimp, have some JS/C-language(s) knowledge (though limited) and of course able to do research. I love music but can't find my way around in sound editing. Some more? Well, not really major stuff.

Oh, and I am able to create a github organization (if needed) in which we all will be members.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok. I can try.(the idea of chat room)

With back the matter of logo I need do brief, first part I need examples of that you want, showme other logos or how can be looks like.

It's a first step in a creative developing with a logo. All agencies (advertising/creative boutique) doing this for their costumers.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Lion.Kanzen

[Radagast.]

x

Edited February 28, 2014 by Hephaestion

[Radagast.]

Sorry for noob question what is RotE? Another 0 A.D.?

You have already done brilliant work on supply lines with Sander, so really you're one of our masters, Niek.

I think we should keep it as informal as possible. Hierarchies and strict sign-up procedures will keep away other modders, devs and artists.

So why not simply including all modders automatically and the rest happens following LordGood's ideas: having an umbrella that help out, that overstretched modders can contact, that modders can put their mods under ... formally allowing them to reuse and drive it further.

The council of all modders will unite us mentally and make oneself realize, you are not alone, we drive it further in tenfold speed in a joint venture. Motivation being the other part.

Reusing artwork/scripts/toolchains will also be made much easier ...

This is really also pending, because as soon as Lion gets that logo done, he can quickly do signatures for us.

Let's save Lion of the signatures .. we can use the artus knight round table. This will even have enough space next to our current signatures (for those that have one).

Here a very bad effort for the aquila. The dragons are from blendswap from a master, so only the Aquila has been modeled by me ... the extrusion is really hard. Have to sculpt details .. and then - again - retopology .. oh dear.

Also how do you bake Normal maps on Linux? For Windows there is crazy bump ... oh, just found Insane Bump for Linux from a blenderartist. In future that does it all ... a pity it's neither open source. (put it in ~/bin/linux on linux, the AO is baked into the normal map as an alpha channel. To work around this, turn AO way down.).

The council also could collect open source 3D model repository links, e.g. http://opengameart.org/content/wip-flare-defense-tower

In this repository everything has CC-0 license, even the textures. Some models from Unknown Horizons are also there. They use isometric renders (no mesh) for their open source game ... but the models to create those renders still are 3 dimensional.

Communication .. well both is okay, forum and chat. The prob is chat is a time killer. In emergencies we can also leave messages in the git repository. That is if everyone updates the repository regularly (git pull) or has a look at it online.

[sanderd17]

Sorry for noob question what is RotE? Another 0 A.D.?

Rise of the East mod: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showforum=423

So why not simply including all modders automatically and the rest happens following LordGood's ideas: having an umbrella that help out, that overstretched modders can contact, that modders can put their mods under ... formally allowing them to reuse and drive it further.

This looks best to me too IMO. We don't care enough for modders, as we may edit the source. So there are sometimes problems we don't know how to solve without editing the main source. Like you can overwrite the UnitAI file to have different unit behaviour. But you probably only want to differ it on one part, and if new UnitAI commands arrive in the main game (like conversion, capturing, patrolling ...) you probably want to inherit that. Without having to manually merge UnitAI with your own version on every commit.

Doing this requires a well thought-out mod structure. The fact that we don't have these problems means also we have no practical solutions for it.

And if some programmer really wants to help modders, we're also in need of a centralised mod download system + some settings to enable or disable mods without CLI options.

[Stan`]

Sorry for noob question what is RotE? Another 0 A.D.?

You have already done brilliant work on supply lines with Sander, so really you're one of our masters, Niek.

I think we should keep it as informal as possible. Hierarchies and strict sign-up procedures will keep away other modders, devs and artists.

So why not simply including all modders automatically and the rest happens following LordGood's ideas: having an umbrella that help out, that overstretched modders can contact, that modders can put their mods under ... formally allowing them to reuse and drive it further.

The council of all modders will unite us mentally and make oneself realize, you are not alone, we drive it further in tenfold speed in a joint venture. Motivation being the other part.

Reusing artwork/scripts/toolchains will also be made much easier ...

Let's save Lion of the signatures .. we can use the artus knight round table. This will even have enough space next to our current signatures (for those that have one).

Here a very bad effort for the aquila. The dragons are from blendswap from a master, so only the Aquila has been modeled by me ... the extrusion is really hard. Have to sculpt details .. and then - again - retopology .. oh dear.

Also how do you bake Normal maps on Linux? For Windows there is crazy bump ... oh, just found Insane Bump for Linux from a blenderartist. In future that does it all ... a pity it's neither open source. (put it in ~/bin/linux on linux, the AO is baked into the normal map as an alpha channel. To work around this, turn AO way down.).

aquila-eagle.jpg

The council also could collect open source 3D model repository links, e.g. http://opengameart.org/content/wip-flare-defense-tower

In this repository everything has CC-0 license, even the textures. Some models from Unknown Horizons are also there. They use isometric renders (no mesh) for their open source game ... but the models to create those renders still are 3 dimensional.

Communication .. well both is okay, forum and chat. The prob is chat is a time killer. In emergencies we can also leave messages in the git repository. That is if everyone updates the repository regularly (git pull) or has a look at it online.

The models you link are great and free but seems too HighPoly IMO, some of them have even more polys than a whole civ. I you want use to remodel them from scratch into lowpoly that's okay, or you think they will be good for part II, but if you want them to make it into the game we will have to simplify them alot.

[Radagast.]

With back the matter of logo I need do brief, first part I need examples of that you want, showme other logos or how can be looks like.

I tried to save you a bit time by preworking a render:

[Lion.Kanzen]

I tried to save you a bit time by preworking a render:artusround--2_1-without_cycles_armour.png

Uh? What is it? A table with chairs? But what mean?

Logo design process

Designing a good logo may require involvement from the marketing team[in this case doing a brainstorming] and the design agency[me or other artists] (if the process is outsourced), or graphic design contest platform (if it crowdsourced). It requires a clear idea about the concept and values of the brand as well as understanding of the consumer or target group. Broad steps in the logo design process might be formulating the concept, doing an initial design, finalizing the logo concept, deciding the theme colours and format involved.

We need solve whst is the modding council? What they do? What they want? ... Are simple question to know where are the objectives , where is the vision of project and where is the mission of the project?

Edited March 1, 2014 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Methodology of Graphic Desing.

By : http://justcreative.com/2008/05/22/why-logo-design-does-not-cost-5-dollars

Design is a pjrocess. And it's not cheap.

See the difference?

Why are they so different? As outlined in the logo design process of top graphic designers, professional logo designers have an actual design process that involves research, sketching, conceptualising, and reflection and this is why they do not charge $5.00.

The design process of a professional logo designer usually consists of:

The Design Brief: They conduct a questionnaire or interview with the client to get the design brief.

Research: They conduct research focused on the industry itself, on its history, and on its competitors.

Reference: They conduct research into logo designs that have been successful and current styles and trends that are related to the design brief.

Sketching & Conceptualising: They develop the logo design concept(s) around the brief and research. They use creativity and know how to design a logo.

Reflection: They take breaks throughout their design process. This lets their ideas mature and lets them get renewed enthusiasm and receive feedback.

Presentation: They then choose whether to present only a select few logos to the client or a whole collection.

Celebration: They then drink beer or eat chocolate or sleep or start on next logo design. Or a combination.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Lion.Kanzen

[Radagast.]

More variants: (and one black and white basic image for Lion)

Edit: Black white was broken. And you are right, we need a purpose .. and I think it's the round artus table and the equally placed chairs by itself that expresses our goals. That's why I put in the top view now ... for you as a base if you are okay with it. Or as a reference. Just how you wish, you're the master.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Hephaestion