Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[krt0143]

In the list of those "please, pretty pretty please, must have" features, allow us to set the stance units built in a building arrive in. (i.e. being able to set that units built in a given building will rather default to "defensive"/"passive", etc.).

Right now new units always default to "aggressive" -- and off they go to conquer the world all on their own, one after the other. It's like herding cats, only more annoying. I've lost more units to irrepressible blood lust than to enemy action...

[krt0143]

Right now Gaia is always hostile to everybody, and that can't be changed.
Please make it possible for scenario makers to set Gaia stance to neutral vs. the AI player(s) and vice versa.

If set, Gaia would only attack the human player, it wouldn't attack the AI player(s)' units, and the AI player(s) wouldn't attack Gaia (besides hunting/fishing and such, but I think those don't count as aggressions).

The point is to prevent an overeager AI from cleaning up any hostile wildlife for you, and/or to prevent the AI from suffering from hostile wildlife attacks in scenarios where Gaia is kind of an additional adversary.

[Gurken Khan]

On 09/09/2023 at 3:32 PM, krt0143 said:

off they go

A stance button for production buildings would be nice. @krt0143 Do you know about rally points? With selected production building(s) right click on a point/res/building and units will go there (+CTRL to garrison inside production building).

I'm ok with Gaia being a wildcard, and I think hunting is aggression towards Gaia. So I don't know if it would be possible to make it neutral with an AI player and that AI player still be able to hunt.

[krt0143]

3 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Do you know about rally points?

Sure but it doesn't change anything. If any enemy units comes near, your units will start chasing them, instead of waiting for whatever task you had planned for them.
Of course you could set that rally point way back, in safe lands, somewhere no enemy will ever be seen, but then what's the point of creating unit facilities near the front lines?... Also sometimes it's just not possible, so you're forced to micromanage, wait for every new recruit and quickly set him manually to "Defensive".

It would be so much easier if you could set the building to create units with a given stance, like in AoE.

 

3 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

I'm ok with Gaia being a wildcard, and I think hunting is aggression towards Gaia.

It depends: From a PvP perspective, Gaia should indeed be aggressive against everybody. But in a player vs. computer game perspective, you just want to up the challenge for the player. There is no advantage in having the AI fight with itself.

Also, that "aggression" thing was meant from a coding point of view: I wouldn't be surprised if Gaia has no code stating that "if player B attacks me, player B is to be considered an enemy", simply because it doesn't need it, since it currently defaults to being hostile to everybody.
So if you use the "neutral" option, the AI player should be able to do the worst things to Gaia -- without any chance of Gaia "getting angry".

[Gurken Khan]

Could we have a Random Random Random maps mode?

Because when I play Random Random maps a lot of maps won't come up.

[krt0143]

17 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Could we have a Random Random Random maps mode?

There actually is one!
It's hidden in the "Browse Maps" sub-menu.

[Gurken Khan]

12 minutes ago, krt0143 said:

There actually is one!

Ah, I guess the "all maps" filter.

[krt0143]

23 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

I guess the "all maps" filter.

No, no, there actually is a "Pick a random map" button (Matches/Browse Maps, lower right).
That's what you're looking for, isn't it? (Note I didn't try it, but it sounds like a "let me chose a map for you" feature.)

[Gurken Khan]

4 minutes ago, krt0143 said:

there actually is a "Pick a random map"

I found it, but before I clicked it was set to random (first position, top left), so that doesn't make a difference if I don't change the filter.

[krt0143]

13 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

it was set to random

If you mean "Map type: Random", that doesn't mean it will randomly pick one. It means it will show you all the Type = "Random" maps (as opposed to type "Skirmish" or type "Scenario" ones). Random type maps are those which are created from a seed according to an algorithm, like in AoE.

But you certainly know this, so I'm not sure what you mean. On top left I only have the players' settings. 

[Gurken Khan]

6 minutes ago, krt0143 said:

But you certainly know this, so I'm not sure what you mean. On top left I only have the players' settings. 

I was talking about "Select Map: Random"; it is represented on the top left when you click "Browse Maps".

[krt0143]

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

I was talking about "Select Map: Random"; it is represented on the top left when you click "Browse Maps".

Ah! I hadn't seen this feature.

[krt0143]

Suggestion for the editor (Atlas):

When you point the cursor over a landscape texture, the editor tells you which one it is.

There are lots of similar textures, and they are a little all over the place, so sometimes I'm there wondering which one was this one. Unless I write a detailed log of all textures I used and where, I'm reduced to trial and (mostly) error...

A feature where the editor tells you over which texture your mouse cursor currently is would be great to have, and make texture painting much easier. Just make it a small overlay in a corner, like the FPS thing.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

10 hours ago, krt0143 said:

Suggestion for the editor (Atlas):

When you point the cursor over a landscape texture, the editor tells you which one it is.

There are lots of similar textures, and they are a little all over the place, so sometimes I'm there wondering which one was this one. Unless I write a detailed log of all textures I used and where, I'm reduced to trial and (mostly) error...

A feature where the editor tells you over which texture your mouse cursor currently is would be great to have, and make texture painting much easier. Just make it a small overlay in a corner, like the FPS thing.

Another idea would be for the editor to dynamically create a biome tab with all the terrains used on the map

[krt0143]

9 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

create a biome tab with all the terrains used on the map

I think your idea is complementary to mine, but wouldn't help with my issue of "what was that texture I used right here?", given I use lots of them, and obviously a bunch of similar-looking ones (so they blend). I'm tired of trying to remember which grass or dirt or cliff this is, was it his one, or that one?

Obviously what would help too is if the editor could display the actual texture, and not just a rectangle with the dominant color shade, but I guess that's a 32-bit memory limitation...

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

15 minutes ago, krt0143 said:

what was that texture I used right here?

shift click the texture

[krt0143]

18 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

shift click the texture

And that selects automatically the current texture?
 

Guys, this program really needs a documentation... At least a list of those impossible-to-guess features.

[hyperion]

30 minutes ago, krt0143 said:

Guys, this program really needs a documentation

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Atlas_Manual

If you notice something is missing, please add it yourself, this is a community driven project.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 hours ago, krt0143 said:

And that selects automatically the current texture?
 

Guys, this program really needs a documentation... At least a list of those impossible-to-guess features.

Did you try it? Did it work? You have to be in paint mode

[krt0143]

8 hours ago, hyperion said:

If you notice something is missing

Where would I start!
First of all that "Manual" is more like a quick introduction than a true user manual. For instance, no mention of the thing wowgetoffyourcellphone told me above, and I guess there must be lots of other stuff, stuff I obviously don't know about unless I learn about it by chance (like that "shift-click" thing). 

Also there is a lot of inexact (outdated?) information in there. For instance, unlike what it shows, the actual textures do not display in the terrain swatches, only their dominant colors (I have a 8 Go GeForce RTX 3070 Ti, so it's most likely not my hardware). It would be really nice if you could see the actual textures.
Last, the "Environment" tab's options are very different in my version of the editor, several settings are missing, and yet the page states "last edited 6 years ago". So? Overly optimistic, or did those features get dropped since? I can only guess.

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Did you try it? Did it work?

Yes, and yes. Thank you!

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, krt0143 said:

For instance, unlike what it shows, the actual textures do not display in the terrain swatches, only their dominant colors

This is a bug from the alpha you are running, I believe (it's been a while). Fixed for the latest alpha coming in the future.

 

As for the other stuff being "missing" and whatnot, they may be mockups. And if I remember correctly, Atlas has been re-programmed a couple times in its history. Similar to how the civs keep getting revamped or tweaked, so the civ profiles are now somewhat outdated.

Keep in mind, this is a huge project with only 10 people currently active, most of those being gameplay balancing people. 1 graphics programmer currently active. A couple of very very key personnel on hiatus/extended vacation. A few people submitting some good patches on Phab, but all part-timers/hobbyists. And while I enjoy writing, I'm assisting in committing gameplay patches, got my own huge mod (Delenda Est), my own non-0 A.D. related writing projects, a full-time job at a factory, fostering kittens/cats, girlfriend, my laptop recently took a shite and no money to replace it (I'm typing this on my GF's laptop, which is not ideal for development and gaming, but it'll work for now). Now, take my situation and apply it to everyone else too (with their own challenges).  

You seem passionate. Maybe apply some of that passion to helping us!  

[krt0143]

26 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This is a bug from the alpha you are running

Great news!

 

26 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Keep in mind, this is a huge project with only 10 people currently active

I know, and I don't expect miracles, I'm just saying that there is a lot of work for that manual, work for which I'm obviously the least qualified here, knowing next to nothing...

 

26 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

You seem passionate.

"Passionate" is my middle name.

But I'm also inconstant and easy to distract/lose interest. I definitely want to help (if my help is wanted), but I am no coder. I understand things rather quickly, but to take a car race metaphor, I'm rather a driver than a mechanic. What I can do though, and I'm usually particularly good at that, is unearth all the bugs 0 A.D. might have.
I tend to use any program at 99.9%, so I'm bound to eventually stumble upon anything not working as expected. Now of course if I get dirty looks each time I mention something not working as it should, I'll refrain from talking about it... 

Edited September 30, 2023 by krt0143
stupid censor thought I was using a swearword! LOL

[krt0143]

And to go back on topic:

A means to list hotkeys by hotkey... The search in there only searches by function, there is no way to search (for instance) which functions use "Shift".

If I want to assign some key to some function, I have to sift through the full list to see if it isn't already used somewhere else.

[Grapjas]

26 minutes ago, krt0143 said:

I tend to use any program at 99.9%, so I'm bound to eventually stumble upon anything not working as expected. Now of course if I get dirty looks each time I mention something not working as it should, I'll refrain from talking about it... 

It's mainly the tone someone brings it in is how it will be perceived, there were good bug testers in the past but had poor attitude, imo anyway ^^. But no matter the tone, if it has merrit something needs to be done with it for sure.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

13 minutes ago, Grapjas said:

there were good bug testers in the past but had poor attitude, imo anyway

Its high time we remember this absolute gem: