Careful with information in Wikipedia

[anfialro]

Hi!

I am translator to Portuguese for Portugal and I see information in Wikipedia (english) copy and paste to game. Careful with is information.

Regards,
André Rodrigues

[greycat]

I see information in Wikipedia (english) copy and paste to game.

Regards,

André Rodrigues

Can you be more specific about problem?

[anfialro]

I said “Careful with information in Wikipedia” because, in my opinion, it’s not good copy and past without reference and Wikipedia it’s not best search font.

Example: Line 601

“A river is a natural watercourse, usually freshwater, flowing towards an ocean, a lake, a sea, or another river. In a few cases, a river simply flows into the ground or dries up completely before reaching another body of water. Small rivers may also be called by several other names, including stream, creek, brook, rivulet, tributary and rill. There are no official definitions for generic terms, such as river, as applied to geographic features, although in some countries or communities a stream may be defined by its size.

Wikipedia:

A river is a natural watercourse,[1] usually freshwater, flowing towards an ocean, a lake, a sea, or another river. In a few cases, a river simply flows into the ground or dries up completely at the end of its course, and does not reach another body of water. Small rivers may be called by several other names, including stream, creek, brook, rivulet, and rill. There are no official definitions for generic terms, such as river, as applied to geographic features,[2] although in some countries or communities a stream may be defined by its size.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River

[sanderd17]

As our data has the same license as Wikipedia, it's enough to mention it somewhere. Just as we mention the contributors.

[fabio]

I agree that while the license compatibility in the game is respected, it is currently lacking precise information on attribution (where the data came from), not only text but also textures, audio and other datas. It was discussed already in the past (e.g. here and here).

[Undo]

License issues aside, wouldn't it be better for the game's credibility and professionalism to have 100% original texts? Going through the game strings, I noticed that a lot of lines are just copied from Wikipedia or from other sites. That already looks sloppy per se (IMHO), but sometimes the copied text doesn't even make sense, when it's completely stripped of its context.

For instance, string 431:

"Brennus is the name which the Roman historians give to the famous leader of the Gauls who took Rome in the time of Camillus. According to Geoffrey, the brothers invaded Gaul and sacked Rome in 390 B.C., 'proving' that Britons had conquered Rome, the greatest civilization in the world, long before Rome conquered the Britons."

Who are these 'brothers'? Is Geoffrey so well-known he needs no introduction? This line appears to be taken from this article (http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artgue/guestsheila3.htm) and just pasted in the game text without any patching whatsoever.

Not to mention the rest of the string is hard to read and confusing (and in the end, it doesn't really explain the difference between mythical Brennius and historical Brennus). Actually, many historical description texts are confusing and should probably be rewritten (the one about Kunobelinos comes to mind).

Just expressing my feelings on the subject

Edited November 2, 2013 by Undo

[sanderd17]

If you can identify those strings, and write new versions for it, you're very welcome.

I suggest you log them in a trac ticket, so someone can get them in the game.

[feneur]

If I remember correctly the map descriptions which are copied from Wikipedia are just placeholder texts which the random map creator put there because he didn't know what to write, and many/most/all of the Celtic history descriptions are written by a previous contributor whose credibility since have been questioned. Either way, new suggestions for these texts is definitely a good thing

[anfialro]

In my opinion, to identify all lines it's more easy copy and past in Google.

[sanderd17]

Well, I don't oppose taking text from Wikipedia given it's good enough, and we have some credit somewhere.

[Mythos_Ruler]

I really don't think the random map scripts even need all that text in the description. I'd be perfectly happy with cutting it all out.

[Mega Mania]

Anfialro was right, information from wikipedia wasn't always accurate and prone to modification or fabrication.

[anfialro]

Anfialro was right, information from wikipedia wasn't always accurate and prone to modification or fabrication.

Example:

Line 2635 "Spartans do not ask how many, only where the enemy are." -- Agis IV, 24th Spartan king of the Eurypontid dynasty

in: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Agis_IV

But the author this quote is Agis II

http://www.lifequoteslib.com/authors/agis_ii.html

The games Grepolis and Gladiatus are correct e 0 A.D. not.

The team "Portuguese from Portugal" translated with correct information. It's a rule this team.

"Os Espartanos não perguntam quantos são, mas onde estão." – Ágis II 17º rei de Esparta e da dinastia Euripôntida.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Example:

Line 2635 "Spartans do not ask how many, only where the enemy are." -- Agis IV, 24th Spartan king of the Eurypontid dynasty

in: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Agis_IV

But the author this quote is Agis II

http://www.lifequoteslib.com/authors/agis_ii.html

The games Grepolis and Gladiatus are correct e 0 A.D. not.

The team "Portuguese from Portugal" translated with correct information. It's a rule this team.

"Os Espartanos não perguntam quantos são, mas onde estão." – Ágis II 17º rei de Esparta e da dinastia Euripôntida.

The wiki quote is sourced. Your 2nd link is not sourced.

[anfialro]

The wiki quote is sourced. Your 2nd link is not sourced.

And a book who confirm the author of this quote is Agis II.

http://books.google.pt/books?id=gGz4qY4WYw0C&pg=PT100&lpg=PT100&dq=Spartans+do+not+ask+how+many,+only+where+the+enemy+are+agis+ii&source=bl&ots=YLyyGkWmPw&sig=Wgla--4ACZSWLifv94yoEo1BQY8&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ei=AGd2UpbGA-iN7AbK_YDgDA&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Spartans%20do%20not%20ask%20how%20many%2C%20only%20where%20the%20enemy%20are%20agis%20ii&f=false

[Mythos_Ruler]

And a book who confirm the author of this quote is Agis II.

http://books.google.pt/books?id=gGz4qY4WYw0C&pg=PT100&lpg=PT100&dq=Spartans+do+not+ask+how+many,+only+where+the+enemy+are+agis+ii&source=bl&ots=YLyyGkWmPw&sig=Wgla--4ACZSWLifv94yoEo1BQY8&hl=pt-PT&sa=X&ei=AGd2UpbGA-iN7AbK_YDgDA&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Spartans%20do%20not%20ask%20how%20many%2C%20only%20where%20the%20enemy%20are%20agis%20ii&f=false

When there is a dispute, it is best to go back to the original source.

http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A2008.01.0198%3Achapter%3D5

It was indeed Agis II.

[Gallaecio]

Instead of suggesting not using Wikimedia projects as sources, I find it better to do so, and if errors are detected, fix them both in the game and upstream.

[Undo]

If you can identify those strings, and write new versions for it, you're very welcome.

I suggest you log them in a trac ticket, so someone can get them in the game.

I'm no historian or writer, but I'd be happy to give my contribution.

On a related note, where should we report any typos we find?

Edited November 3, 2013 by Undo

[serveurix]

 

Instead of suggesting not using Wikimedia projects as sources, I find it better to do so, and if errors are detected, fix them both in the game and upstream.

 

+1

[sanderd17]

I'm no historian or writer, but I'd be happy to give my contribution.

On a related note, where should we report any typos we find?

You can gather some and make a trac ticket for it (trac.wildfiregames.com), or make a forum post with a list of those.

[NoMolester]

So, you are saying that the current information presented in the game is not definitive and is just a placeholder in most cases that must not be considerd as confirmed information.

[Mythos_Ruler]

So, you are saying that the current information presented in the game is not definitive and is just a placeholder in most cases that must not be considerd as confirmed information.

Since we are in alpha stage, all text in the game is possibly up for revision. That doesn't mean it is all "placeholder." It just means it is what it is unless it gets changed (hopefully for the better if it is ever changed).

[NoMolester]

You should add a note somewhere saying that the informational text is not fully revised yet due to alpha stage.

[GunChleoc]

We could add a [needs revision] tag to such texts, so it will be easier to track down later which ones still need working on.

[feneur]

You should add a note somewhere saying that the informational text is not fully revised yet due to alpha stage.

Some texts might specifically require more work, but in general everything in the game should be considered work-in-progress/not final/might change. In other words: that the game is called "Alpha" should be enough of a sign in general. Again, I'm not saying specific texts can't benefit from a [needs revision] tag or similar, just that it should be understood that the game is not finished yet.