FeXoR Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) This thread is meant for discussing the following controversial questions, all pertaining the visual portrayal of the Mauryan civ in 0 A.D.:Will we use Hindu swastikas in 0 A.D.?Will we portray Mauryan warrior women with exposed breasts or with covered breasts?How will we decide on these topics?I will be moving posts pertaining these questions from another thread to this thread.These are very emotionally charged topics and opinions differ strongly. Still, let's do our best to keep this discussion civil, as it has been so far.Aviv / Jeru-----I noticed the "Swastika" on the shields. I personally don't really mind (since such symbols where widely used in history and still are) but some Jews and/or Germans might since it was also the symbol of Nazism. Would it be possible to at least use left bended Swastika or is it known that Mauryans only/mostly use right bended ones? Edited December 7, 2012 by Jeru Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Falcão Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I noticed the "Swastika" on the shields. I personally don't really mind (since such symbols where widely used in history and still are) but some Jews and/or Germans might since it was also the symbol of Nazism. Would it be possible to at least use left bended Swastika or is it known that Mauryans only/mostly use right bended ones?Long before Hittler, this symbol was used. I guess people will just have to get used to it as not being the Nazis' symbol, but rather a peace symbol, which is what it meant before the mental illness took many minds in germany Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo38 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I noticed the "Swastika" on the shields. I personally don't really mind (since such symbols where widely used in history and still are) but some Jews and/or Germans might since it was also the symbol of Nazism. Would it be possible to at least use left bended Swastika or is it known that Mauryans only/mostly use right bended ones?That means changing several textures already used in completed models...After a quick search, I notice the svastika shape as been used since ages and by many different cultures, and in both bending direction : linkFor my part, I think we can leave the symbol as it is, for 2 reasons :-it was used that way in India and that should be recognized, especially in a History-careful game-the symbol in the game will anyway appear among many others that will dim its visual impact a lot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeXoR Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 That means changing several textures already used in completed models...After a quick search, I notice the svastika shape as been used since ages and by many different cultures, and in both bending direction : linkFor my part, I think we can leave the symbol as it is, for 2 reasons :-it was used that way in India and that should be recognized, especially in a History-careful game-the symbol in the game will anyway appear among many others that will dim its visual impact a lotOK, just wanted to tell and if it could just be flipped easily it would not be to much work. It would be still a historically correct svastika and would differ more from that of Nazism. But if it is to much trouble and work I'm OK with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 The Nazi symbol was tilted 45 degrees, was it not? Germany allows the Hindu swastika to be portrayed in media, but apparently not the Nazi symbol (we had to remove it from our in-game airplane). There should be no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 There is a wiki article about the subject here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_§_86aIt is not well-sourced, but it claims that: "... the Swastika is outlawed if used in a context of völkisch ideology, while it is legitimate if used as a symbol of Hinduism or Buddhism." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeXoR Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 I fear the svastika is indeed a legal issue in Germany (and may be in other states of central Europe like e.g Austria).In the best case the usage will only result in bad publicity (despite there is such thing).This could at least be used as a legitimate count of an indictment in Germany (which should be avoided in any case).As I said before for me it's not that important but the bad publicity is a valid reason for me as well.Just keep in mind that some Jews/Germans get sick just on sight of that symbol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Maybe there could be some option (perhaps a build flag) to toggle them off? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo38 Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Maybe there could be some option (perhaps a build flag) to toggle them off?On my opinion, that would be going too far.I think that people have to learn the history of things and understand that this symbol took place in the world in a peaceful way, long before the atrocities of the nazism. Leaving the svastika exclusively to the nazis would throw away so much History... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeXoR Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 (edited) Well, with a comment like: "We value the needs of the victims of Nazism. For those here's the option to turn all content that may be in some brains related to that off." It would at least follow the mind of the law in Germany ^^.Still I doubt it would be "bulletproof" in a court. Edited December 4, 2012 by FeXoR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeXoR Posted December 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 On my opinion, that would be going too far.I think that people have to learn the history of things and understand that this symbol took place in the world in a peaceful way, long before the atrocities of the nazism. Leaving the svastika exclusively to the nazis would throw away so much History...I totally agree. But the bad thing is... we're not alone ^^. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 IMO, 0 A.D. is a game, not a platform for telling people what they should think or feel. If a significant portion of the world population is offended by or even banned from using software displaying these symbols, a way to toggle it off is a small matter to add. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pureon Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 Walking around the British Museum I see many ancient objects with svastika symbols on them. It's a part of history, there is no issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 4, 2012 Report Share Posted December 4, 2012 That Right the People even offended them with misc. things female clothes in some units, and other little things in this game. The People can be tolerant with other Culture symbols. this a Open Project not commercial as ban a symbol only for a group of wrong people uses as Symbols their wrongness. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishFTW Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Sadly (or gladly because war has led to so much innovation) much of human history has been bloody murder and slaughter of fellow humans; thus, this is a game of ancient warfare... If people want to get offended then they can. Or perhaps they can choose to learn more and for lack of a better word, be less ignorant on the matter. I really view this game as a tool for education in a fun way and this can be part of the educational experience. There aren't any legal issues (as zoot pointed out), and if somebody is offended, then they don't have to play the game. Simple as that 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilstewie Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 (edited) Swastika was a symbol of luck, not what the Nazis made it out to be.Here are swastika symbol with other(hills/stupas, chakra, fanced off teak tree(?), etc.) symbols. Edited December 5, 2012 by lilstewie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Sadly (or gladly because war has led to so much innovation) much of human history has been bloody murder and slaughter of fellow humans; thus, this is a game of ancient warfare... If people want to get offended then they can. Or perhaps they can choose to learn more and for lack of a better word, be less ignorant on the matter. I really view this game as a tool for education in a fun way and this can be part of the educational experience. There aren't any, legal issues (as zoot pointed out), and if somebody is offended, then they don't have to play the game. Simple as that Should we also drop the bikini bras from the Mauryan female warriors then, since all sources depict them bare-breasted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos_Ruler Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Should we also drop the bikini bras from the Mauryan female warriors then, since all sources depict them bare-breasted?That would be my preference (and naked Celts as well), but consensus has concluded that some minor form of modesty is best, just as I suspect consensus here would say that depicting Hindu versions of the swastika is okay. IIRC, there is also a swastika depicted on a Samnite unit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuroN2 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 can't have naked girlies, even if they are badly textured, imagine all those poor little innocent children?! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoot Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 That would be my preference (and naked Celts as well), but consensus has concluded that some minor form of modesty is best, just as I suspect consensus here would say that depicting Hindu versions of the swastika is okay. IIRC, there is also a swastika depicted on a Samnite unit?Sure, I'm just challenging the consensus to explain why it is culturally sensitive on one topic, but not on another. If too many trade-offs like that have to made over the course of development, it might in the end be better to add a simple toggle and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimball Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 can't have naked girlies, even if they are badly textured, imagine all those poor little innocent children?!I'm not sure we've done such a great job marketing this game to kids. Our demo is probably 16+ at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Falcão Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm not sure we've done such a great job marketing this game to kids. Our demo is probably 16+ at the very least.Even though some people simply ignore that, like i did, when i was young and my father bought AoK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 I'm not sure we've done such a great job marketing this game to kids. Our demo is probably 16+ at the very least.I have to disagree, my 12 year old brother thinks it's the best game he has ever played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Perhaps instead of showing the women bare breasted, a black rectangular shape could be placed on that area with the words 'censored.' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludo38 Posted December 5, 2012 Report Share Posted December 5, 2012 Funny how a a discussion about Defense towers slips to a debate about breasts ! Just stopped in to let you know how far my jaw dropped when I saw this screenshot. Keep up the amazing work!Yeah, LordGood does awesome modeling. We just would like to have news from him. For now he doesn't answer the mails... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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