Feature Request: Throttle Attacks Per Second to Prevent Auto-Snipe Cheating + Add data to post-game stats.

[RangerK]

The Attached Screen shot is analysis from a recent TG.

You can see a HUGE disparity in the frequency and intensity of concentrated attack commands.  This can be evidence of Sniping, as I see @SaidRdz do manually in many of his Youtube videos.  Or it can evidence of using some game mod to automatically snipe for you.

Tatyana17's 13 attack commands per second isn't necessarily evidence of cheating, as game seconds are longer than real seconds, also, maybe all the commands were given during a pause in the game, though I don't remember having one.  Regardless, it's a little sus.  

Playing with even the possibility of cheaters is very demoralizing.

I suggest TWO features:

1)  Throttle the # of allowed attacks per second which the game will accept.  Either 3 or 4 seems good.  And if there are additional attack commands, they are either ignored or processed in the following second.

2)  Show statistics exactly like those in the image as part of the post-game data.
 

[guerringuerrin]

Hey @RangerK!. You might be interested in taking a look at this PR. Basically, it would allow targeting groups of units using the selection box, which could make sniping as a gameplay mechanic obsolete.

Edited 3 hours ago by guerringuerrin

[RangerK]

Quote

The feature is meant in part to be a pathing tool when fighting, where units attack a specified group of target over the default 'closest enemy'.

...

-UnitAI handles array of targets, the first element is the entity that will be targeted until it's dead of invalidated, then it will go the the next one, that conveniently could be the next closest entity without doing more calculations. Also, it respond to any attack if the source is closer then it's current target (and if not engaged in combat yet).

Thanks, @guerringuerrin

I may be missing something, but the description there isn't very clear.  It doesn't really say the over-all goal of the PR, so I'm a little disoriented.  It also doesn't describe how targets are selected within the group.  I think it would have to be an extremely clever system to completely eliminate the advantage of auto-sniping.

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

35 minutes ago, guerringuerrin said:

Basically, it would allow targeting groups of units using the selection box, which could make sniping as a gameplay mechanic obsolete.

That would not make the mechanic obsolete, it would just be an easier way to snipe. Attacking ranged units beyond melee and then running away when ur melee is all gone will remain. Significant balance changes would be needed to actually make it obsolete.

[guerringuerrin]

40 minutes ago, RangerK said:

Thanks, @guerringuerrin

I may be missing something, but the description there isn't very clear.  It doesn't really say the over-all goal of the PR, so I'm a little disoriented.  It also doesn't describe how targets are selected within the group.  I think it would have to be an extremely clever system to completely eliminate the advantage of auto-sniping.

Yeah, might be too technic. Maybe this commentary in that PR describes better why I think could help on this: 
 

41 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

That would not make the mechanic obsolete, it would just be an easier way to snipe. Attacking ranged units beyond melee and then running away when ur melee is all gone will remain. Significant balance changes would be needed to actually make it obsolete.

Oh I understand and I think you are right about "Attacking ranged units beyond melee and then running away when ur melee is all gone will remain."
The way I see it, targeting ranged units to eliminate them first (given their higher damage) is somewhat part of combat micro skills, just like sniping a Hero, rams, or other high-value units. And this probably wouldn’t be as necessary with a different balance for combat units (e.g. melee units stronger against projectiles).

That’s why, from my perspective, when we talk about the sniping problem in 0 A.D., we’re referring to the repetitive action of targeting units with a group or using Alt+click to pick them off first. Which creates that “whoever clicks more wins” dynamic. But I can be wrong.

[Atrik]

29 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Significant balance changes would be needed to actually make it obsolete.

I hope the feature would make targeting accessible/interesting enough that it would be a desirable part of the gameplay.

32 minutes ago, RangerK said:

It also doesn't describe how targets are selected within the group.

 That's a bit unfair given the explanations and illustrations provided.

 

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39 minutes ago, RangerK said:

I think it would have to be an extremely clever system to completely eliminate the advantage of auto-sniping.

I think you are imagining that there is a "auto-sniping" thing out there that sort out battles without any user input.
Let's assume that it is the case.
If a player that would use such "auto-sniping", some of the decisions and improvisations he would be normally be able to do would be removed. Likely resulting in fool-plays, or predictability that other users could take advantage of.

On the other hand, trying to make available some features that efficiently translate user inputs into actions, that stay general enough not remove possible plays, would make them very competitive against it.

The above isn't the goal of the PR, much more like a QOL feature, that would make micro in battle more interesting. Making targeted volleys of projectiles would be much more rewarding if you can define a area where they are thrown, then if you they just all go on the first closest enemy for example.

[Seleucids]

Autosnipe existed but nobody uses it anymore and it probably doesn't work in R28

 

@ffm2 had some click counter script in python which you might be interested in

[guerringuerrin]

15 minutes ago, Seleucids said:

Autosnipe existed but nobody uses it anymore and it probably doesn't work in R28

Are you sure it's not only a gamer mouse with multi-click macro buttons?
Do you have some code or proof about it?

[AlexHerbert]

That's an interesting analysis, it makes me think of priorities.
That feature in the game is like having a high-end bike but only ever using one gear, while obsessing over automate a fan to blow air towards your face.
Just saying.

Edited 24 minutes ago by AlexHerbert
Language... reasons.

[Emacz]

Couldn't units be balanced in a way where sniping is less important? Then you wouldn't have to really worry about any of this