Random positions in TGs

[Meister]

Dear fellow addicts,
its probably too late for a28, but i just wanted to have some short discussion about bringing back the random teamgame player positions, especially on mainland maps.
i remember it was really cool, players would spot early to see who was their border. now we have in almost all teamgames the same setup: strongest players pocket (with 220 pop civ), weaker players border. i understand that many not-so-pro players dont want to be pocket in fear of getting rushed badly. i remember during a27 there were maps with "fixed positions" suffix, so you had a choice for that too.
Now you dont have a choice anymore.

What do you think about bringing back random positions, in all maps or in mainland?

Maybe its also possible to just make a map with non-fixed-positions, so like in a27 but other way round, with fixed being standard...
HF,
Meister

[guerringuerrin]

I miss random positions too (and I also miss allied view disabled btw...)
I think lot of players would thanks this to come back. it would be great to add this and then the host could choose between Random or Fixed in Circle but also in Stronghold, River and Grouped Lines.

[Atrik]

@leopard reintroduced random positions in his mod https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/mainland-twilight . It's basically feldmap scripts but with random position as variant, and other cool variants as well. The only reason we don't use this over feldmap in the online community is pure habits and because we are sheeps.

[Meister]

1 hour ago, Atrik said:

@leopard reintroduced random positions in his mod

so since probably feldmap has to be ported anyway, it would be possible to have a "mainland random-positions" in it?
@Feldfeld

[AlexHerbert]

I’ve been bringing this up lately as well. Mainland is a good map, but it’s definitely overplayed.

What I don’t like about circle placement is that borders consistently get the hardest role, and in practice it almost always ends up the same way: strongest players pocket, weaker players border. That makes teamgames very predictable.

Border is more demanding, you’re often exposed to early pressure or even 2v1 situations, which is exactly why most players want the pocket position. But that raises an interesting question: if border is the most challenging role, shouldn’t the strongest players be the ones taking it?

This feels similar to formations in football, changing positions changes the entire dynamic of the game.

That’s why lately I’ve stopped playing circle placement altogether and switched to RANDOM GROUP placement (for science). It forces adaptation and makes matches feel less scripted.

Edited 15 hours ago by AlexHerbert

[Dakara]

Players are free to do what they want, only the host fix it. Sheep fix the meta but meta can evolve.

But an option for random position for circle could be good 

It would even be cool to have random teams.

[ffm2]

8 hours ago, AlexHerbert said:

but it’s definitely overplayed.

I don't think it is. With 4v4 and circle it just offers the best games. The pockets and the borders have different roles. Getting good in the game just takes so much time and repetition. The players need a bit of guidance and dedicated roles. The variance comes from the game play and not from the map.

8 hours ago, AlexHerbert said:

strongest players pocket, weaker players border.

This is only true for a certain elo range. The problem with weaker player is that they don't understand and act reasonably. If the weaker player is put in the pocket often times he doesn't come for help when necessary. He booms and does it poorly so in the end nothing is gained. Admittedly the better player often doesn't come either, because he might don't see it as worth it. If the weak player can keep the strong one busy for a while the team might benefit even though the weak player takes more damage than the strong attacker as he's slowed in his eco.

3 hours ago, Dakara said:

random position for circle could be good

Yeah, even though I like mainland 4v4 the most, some variety in the placement, biome, civ, no ally vision etc. spice things up

[guerringuerrin]

The balanced version of some maps are nice too, Slopes, Coast range, Foothills, Continent. 

[ffm2]

Yeah they are ok.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

There is a way