trees, map distance

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 15/12/2024 at 1:34 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Andy has said he's not interested in taking these maps. Best to have an an official "Legacy Maps" mod. Once we've finished polishing 30 good maps for the base game, we can polish 5-10 more maps from the Legacy Maps mod and merge them back into the game. rinse/repeat. 

 

Retold has 40 well-polished procedural maps: https://aom.heavengames.com/retold/random-maps/

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It would be good to create a topic to propose how to fix them. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 15/12/2024 at 1:49 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

It would be good to create a topic to propose how to fix them. 

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Already here: 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 15/12/2024 at 2:05 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Already here: 

 

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But it falls short just the random maps, and the second thing is to put it on the modding/maps forum.

[Lion.Kanzen]

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7319#issuecomment-107429

Tabasco need some help.

Now is when we need help guys.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 19/12/2024 at 4:42 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7319#issuecomment-107429

Tabasco need some help.

Now is when we need help guys.

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Merged.  

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 19/12/2024 at 4:55 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Merged.  

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That's what I came to comment on.

[andy5995]

  On 15/12/2024 at 1:34 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Andy has said he's not interested in taking these maps.

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Which maps? I don't remember saying this but I might have changed my mind since then. If they are unfinished maps, then you are correct, I don't want to include them.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 28/12/2024 at 7:10 PM, andy5995 said:

Which maps? I don't remember saying this but I might have changed my mind since then. If they are unfinished maps, then you are correct, I don't want to include them.

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They would be "finished" maps from the game that we don't want to include in the official release. My idea would be to curate the best 25 maps or so, improve them further, and make those the core "official maps" included in the release. The 40+ other maps we'd either put into "official maps" mod download or give to you for your maps mod. 

[Grautvornix]

Sounds cool to have really good maps as part of the main game! It is indeed important to have high quality maps visibly associated to the game.

However, I'd be in favour of keeping also the more mediocre maps accessible in vanilla to preserve variety, e.g. as "user supplied maps, maps to be improved etc.

As I reported already: with the game "settlers" the mapping community alone kept the (commercial) game alive for more than 25 years and still counting (cf. www.siedler-maps.de/ ) It would be lovely to see mapping community for 0aD as active as for the various settlers games...

Possibly, 0aD - while being a game strongly linked to actual history - might also provide imaginary maps scenarios that come with a conundrum to solve (e.g. there is not enough of one resource, you find the right place for your CC, create the right alliances etc. etc.)

Apologies for this excursion,particularly as I am not (yet) able to provide my own maps. Still slow in learning...

[Dunedan]

My stance would be: less quantity, more quality.

As of Alpha 27 0ad will ship with 157 (!) maps. While I believe a big map pool is good, 157 is too much in my opinion. I'd prefer something like ~100 maps in the base game.

An easy step to decrease the number of maps would be to eliminate duplicates. For example there are three "Azure Coast" maps and three "Corinthian Isthmus"/"Isthmus of Corinth" maps right now.

[Stan`]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:11 AM, Dunedan said:

An easy step to decrease the number of maps would be to eliminate duplicates. For example there are three "Azure Coast" maps and three "Corinthian Isthmus"/"Isthmus of Corinth" maps right now.

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Well with this feature we could only keep the one with the most players https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7271

There was also https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4127 which could be nice.

 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:11 AM, Dunedan said:

My stance would be: less quantity, more quality.

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+1 (emphasis mine).

 

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:11 AM, Dunedan said:

As of Alpha 27 0ad will ship with 157 (!) maps. While I believe a big map pool is good, 157 is too much in my opinion. I'd prefer something like ~100 maps in the base game.

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I'd go even fewer, but I like where your head is at. Many of the scenario maps are (now irrelevant) demos or unplayable. And if we aren't presenting some kind of quality scenario to the player, then why should it be there? We could endeavor to create maybe 3 quality scenarios to choose from, each with some kind of interesting and well-made standalone story or historical narrative to play out. You don't need more than that to showcase the feature. 

 

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:11 AM, Dunedan said:

An easy step to decrease the number of maps would be to eliminate duplicates. For example there are three "Azure Coast" maps and three "Corinthian Isthmus"/"Isthmus of Corinth" maps right now.

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Part of what makes the 157 maps problematic is the overwhelming amount of choice. In addition to #7271, something I would really like to do is be able to combine some skirmish and Scenario maps together into one "choice" in the UI. So, let's say you have 2 nearly identical maps, but one map has 2 players and another map has 3 players. Good examples of this are the "Cycladic Archipelago" skirmish maps. There is a 2 player and a 3 player variation of this map. So, what we'd do instead is present it as 1 choice in the map list or in the map screen instead of 2, and then in match setup where you can choose the number of players you can choose 2 or 3, just like when choosing the number of players in a random map. The game then will launch the proper map based on the number of players chosen. 

We can do this with json files, which combine multiple maps into 1 choice:

  {
    "mapName": "Cycladic Archipelago",
    "mapFiles": [
      "skirmish/cycladic_archipelago_2p",
      "skirmish/cycladic_archipelago_3p"
    ]
  }

 

We may have to add a line to each of the map xml files, so that they aren't presented separately:

  "MapCombination": [
    "cycladic_archipelago.json"
  ],

But I'm not sure if that last bit would be necessary or not. And terminology can be something more logical, I'm just throwing this together as I type.

 

So, then when you go to choose a map in the Ui, you aren't overwhelmed with choice; a bunch of maps have been combined for you. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:11 AM, Dunedan said:

three "Corinthian Isthmus"/"Isthmus of Corinth" maps right now.

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I'd like to make these more interesting. I'd like to add Wonders of the World to some maps and make them different and unique. This one I would rename to "Capture the Colossus."

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And here's another idea

 

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[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:45 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:11 AM, Dunedan said:

three "Corinthian Isthmus"/"Isthmus of Corinth" maps right now.

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I'd like to make these more interesting. I'd like to add Wonders of the World to some maps and make them different and unique. This one I would rename to "Capture the Colossus."

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The idea reminds me of: the defense of Crete.

https://ageofempiresonline.fandom.com/wiki/Defense_of_Crete

 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:51 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

The idea reminds me of: the defense of Crete.

https://ageofempiresonline.fandom.com/wiki/Defense_of_Crete

 

 

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What about the defense of Rodhes?

[Stan`]

Capture the colossus would be a nice gamemode.

It would try to spawn at the center of the map (or at a carefully chosen place replacing some special entity)

[alre]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:53 PM, Stan` said:

Capture the colossus would be a nice gamemode.

It would try to spawn at the center of the map (or at a carefully chosen place replacing some special entity)

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it can be a map. maps allow a lot of variation on gameplay. no need to apply it to more maps, not right away anyway.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Capturing the wonders of the ancient world can earn you many score points.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 29/12/2024 at 5:53 PM, Stan` said:

Capture the colossus would be a nice gamemode.

It would try to spawn at the center of the map (or at a carefully chosen place replacing some special entity)

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  On 29/12/2024 at 5:57 PM, alre said:

it can be a map. maps allow a lot of variation on gameplay. no need to apply it to more maps, not right away anyway.

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  On 29/12/2024 at 6:00 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Capturing the wonders of the ancient world can earn you many score points.

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For now, a couple of skirmish or scenario maps can have them, but the end goal would be a "Wonders of the World" capture the wonder game mode. Where, as @Stan` suggests, random maps could spawn a random "Wonder of the World" at the center of the map which can be captured to win the game if that game mode is selected by the host. 

 

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My plan would be for these to be the wonders that aren't built by players. So, the Temple of Artemis, Pyramid of Khafre, Colossus of Rhodes, Hanging Gardens of Babylon (replaced as Persian wonder by the Apadana of Darius whenever i can get someone to model it), the Ishtar Gate (needs a more elaborate model), Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, Stonehenge, Uffington White Horse, The Great Sphinx of Giza, et al. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 28/12/2024 at 8:08 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

My plan would be for these to be the wonders that aren't built by players. So, the Temple of Artemis, Pyramid of Khafre, Colossus of Rhodes, Hanging Gardens of Babylon (replaced as Persian wonder by the Apadana of Darius whenever i can get someone to model it), the Ishtar Gate (needs a more elaborate model), Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, Stonehenge, Uffington White Horse, The Great Sphinx of Giza, et al. 

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Except Babylon gardens (by now/current state)

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 29/12/2024 at 6:15 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

For now, a couple of skirmish or scenario maps can have them, but the end goal would be a "Wonders of the World" capture the wonder game mode. Where, as @Stan` suggests, random maps could spawn a random "Wonder of the World" at the center of the map which can be captured to win the game. 

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Yes, but you can have a defense map style skirmish, like defense of Crete.

I don't know that map in depth.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 29/12/2024 at 6:30 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Yes, but you can have a defense map style skirmish, like defense of Crete.

I don't know that map in depth.

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Right, so a Scenario that we can craft to replace all the garbage scenarios currently in the game. A few scenarios with triggers and objectives can replace all of the barely playable scenarios we currently have. 

[andy5995]

  On 28/12/2024 at 8:08 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

They would be "finished" maps from the game that we don't want to include in the official release. My idea would be to curate the best 25 maps or so, improve them further, and make those the core "official maps" included in the release. The 40+ other maps we'd either put into "official maps" mod download or give to you for your maps mod. 

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@wowgetoffyourcellphone@Stan`I'm still thinking about this. My thoughts right now are... I don't know if there's a point to me maintaining maps that no one plays. But at anytime, if there is a map that someone likes that has been proposed for removal (or has been removed and still works) from 0ad, they can submit it for inclusion in the community-maps-2 mod.

[andy5995]

  On 14/01/2025 at 4:42 AM, andy5995 said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone@Stan`I'm still thinking about this. My thoughts right now are... I don't know if there's a point to me maintaining maps that no one plays. But at anytime, if there is a map that someone likes that has been proposed for removal (or has been removed and still works) from 0ad, they can submit it for inclusion in the community-maps-2 mod.

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As far as maintaining, it's not really time-consuming provided they can be migrated easily each time there's a new version of 0ad released.  I don't know how often that's a problem yet.