Narrative Campaign General Discussion?

[Vantha]

An idea I had a while ago (that would provide a practice opportunity to player) is to add some sort of "coach". It watches games and every now and then sends notifications to remind the player of something they forgot or could improve. For example: "Your wood production is struggling to meet demands while your storage is overflowing with stone. Move over some workers from the stone mines to the forest", "You have reached your current population capacity and can't train any more units, build more houses to increase it.", "A significant portion of your units is idle. Have them work at all times for maximum efficiency."

I believe this could really help players new to the RTS genre with the multitasking and all of the casual single players. I've heard from a number of new players that they found the game way too hard (and it was for me too when I first started playing).
It's not as hard to implement as it might seem, could be expanded on by the more competitive multiplayer community and even be made into a "challenge mode", similar to what @Lion.Kanzen suggested.

And, of course, it would also come in handy for the unguided sections in this tutorial campaign.

But let's keep this thread on-topic. I'll probably open a dedicated one once I get to it.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Vantha said:

But let's keep this thread on-topic. I'll probably open a dedicated one once I get to it.

I already did it. I opened  it yesterday.

[Lion.Kanzen]

11 years ago.

A8 was 13 years ago...

They were already asking for a campaign.

I think this will be worth it.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Starcraft is not much different than AoE with the difficulty of the tutorial missions.

The first mission is just houses and a gas collector.

Then the  2nd mission is just found Jim Raynor (heroe) and  build a barrack train 10 marines.

By the way we need a reset scenario function Or play again the mission.

Edited January 15, 2025 by Lion.Kanzen

[Vantha]

Any ideas how to improve the current tutorial UI? (not only visually, but also functionally)

[Stan`]

I do miss gameplay messages like this one, bottom left above the minimap (the thumb)

Or these (the ? is always present, the other is a message)

[Vantha]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

I do miss gameplay messages like this one, bottom left above the minimap (the thumb)

Or these (the ? is always present, the other is a message)

Can you elaborate? I can't tell from the screenshots what you mean.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, Vantha said:

Any ideas how to improve the current tutorial UI? (not only visually, but also functionally)

Checkboxes for starters.  

[Stan`]

12 hours ago, Vantha said:

Can you elaborate? I can't tell from the screenshots what you mean.

At 2:32 when he tries to recruit a worker he gets a message on the left saying there is no more pop left 

Other events could trigger such messages.

 

[Vantha]

19 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Checkboxes for starters.  

Checkboxes... that do what? (So players can enter the tutorial from different levels of experience?)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 16/02/2025 at 7:06 AM, Vantha said:

Checkboxes... that do what? (So players can enter the tutorial from different levels of experience?)

Checkboxes next to the objectives of the scenario, etc.

[Vantha]

On 15/02/2025 at 6:53 PM, Vantha said:

Any ideas how to improve the current tutorial UI? (not only visually, but also functionally)

Continuing this..
Currently, new instructions are just added below previous ones. It feels kinda cheap to me.

Maybe only the current one should be displayed at a time. Stuff like important hotkeys or game concept explanations could be moved somewhere else (and always stay accessible). What do you think?

[hyperion]

Don't use a chat window at all. The chat functionality is a poor match. If you want to scroll back just read a manual instead of an interactive intro. Just pop up a window / banner for each objective as you do in other cases already.

Suggest to allow skipping objectives.

[nifa]

On 15/02/2025 at 6:53 PM, Vantha said:

Any ideas how to improve the current tutorial UI? (not only visually, but also functionally)

the possibility to add pictures in between the texts, e.g. when the instruction says click on the house icon, show it in the window and when it says hold ctrl show a graphic of the ctrl-key

[Vantha]

Oh, I totally forgot about this last post I made here.

 

Regarding icons, I will try to incorporate existing ones (like the resource types), but I don't think there'd be much value in creating new, specific ones, if players don't see them anywhere outside of the tutorial later too.

 

 

Regarding the instructions, I have spent a good amount of time thinking about it and here's my plan: I want to split up all instructions currently stuffed into the tutorial panel into four different categories (each displayed on their own panel - with only one or maybe two visible at once):

- Simple Tasks. Basic instructions like "Left-click on your Civic Center", "Train _____ units", "Order them to build a storehouse". Only the active one needs to be displayed at once.

- Basic Information and Tips. Everything that doesn't directly help players progress through the game, but just teaches them how to do something. For example, how to select units, how to build structures, or how to read the minimap. This could still be done in an interactive way, but these sections need to be skippable.

- Game Objectives. Larger tasks like "Explore the map", "Repel the attack", or "Capture the Civic Center" that take more time to complete. I plan to add this functionality to scenarios and trigger scripts in general, and not just the tutorial. Objectives can be given, completed or stopped at any point during the game, all of which is announced by fading in some sort of "banner" in the top center. They don't need to be required for ultimately winning the game and could instead function more like "side quests" too by providing other rewards (like unlocking certain units, receiving some resources - stuff that can be done in trigger scripts already) But I haven't really thought about how to connect them to the current "victory conditions" (conquest, wonder, etc. - which are called "objectives" in the game right now) yet.

- Plot Points. There is no interface in place right now to tell a story to the player. At all. This would in first instance become relevant at the start of a game, of course. But I imagine it would also be cool to have the possibility of advancing the plot during a game as well, maybe even depending on player decisions... (this interface too could be made available to all scenario scripts, and not just the tutorial)

 

At the moment, I'm trying to come up with good UI designs for each of these. Ideas, design concepts, or UI mockups are much welcomed, as always.

 

[Vantha]

On another note, I've actually made some great progress on the map recently: 

(haven't painted the ocean floor yet)

I will upload some screenshots and the files when I'm done; but I want to remake some sections and polish everything up a bit more first.

As you might remember, I am using the 'desert_persia' biome mixed with the 'aegean_anatolian' biome. Southeastern Spain is a lot more arid than regions like Italy, Greece, or Turkey and not far away at all from a typical "desert". Honestly, I was really afraid it could turn out looking horrible, but they ended up fitting together quite well in my opinion.

The only thing I struggled with was fading between bushy and earthy spots. There are a lot of textures available for empty and dry grounds. And some others full of bushes ( / vegetation in general) - namely 'Desert plants b persia' and 'Desert plants a'. What's missing is something in between to fill this gap. Patches of bushes don't just abpruptly "end" at a particular point; instead, with increasing distance, bushes are becoming smaller and sparser. And it's this transition that I find very hard to replicate with available textures.
If someone could create a such a texture that would be amazing. Essentially a sparser variant of 'Desert plants b persia' (and if of 'Desert plants a' too that would be even better!)
@wowgetoffyourcellphone maybe?

[Gönndolsalv]

Any progress on this Project? Do you need help somewhere?

[Vantha]

@Gönndolsalv Hey, I only just now saw your message.

 

So here's an update from my side:

I remain convinced that the game would really benefit from a new tutorial and that the story around Carthago Nova would make for a great campaign. And this project is still a big long-term goal of mine. And, yes, there absolutely is progress, even though it might no be always visible to the outside. As I explained above, when I started making the campaign last year, I essentially came to the conclusion that the game just lacked the capabilities to tell the story and teach the player stuff the way I had imagined it and would personally be content with. So what I decided to do was to lay down the campaign and instead to first implement these features myself, and only then pick up the campaign again to write it using that new functionality. And in the last year I have worked on all points that I mentioned above:

 

On 06/03/2025 at 5:05 PM, Vantha said:

- Game Objectives. Larger tasks like "Explore the map", "Repel the attack", or "Capture the Civic Center" that take more time to complete. I plan to add this functionality to scenarios and trigger scripts in general, and not just the tutorial. Objectives can be given, completed or stopped at any point during the game, all of which is announced by fading in some sort of "banner" in the top center. They don't need to be required for ultimately winning the game and could instead function more like "side quests" too by providing other rewards (like unlocking certain units, receiving some resources - stuff that can be done in trigger scripts already) But I haven't really thought about how to connect them to the current "victory conditions" (conquest, wonder, etc. - which are called "objectives" in the game right now) yet.

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7785

 

On 06/03/2025 at 5:05 PM, Vantha said:

- Plot Points. There is no interface in place right now to tell a story to the player. At all. This would in first instance become relevant at the start of a game, of course. But I imagine it would also be cool to have the possibility of advancing the plot during a game as well, maybe even depending on player decisions... (this interface too could be made available to all scenario scripts, and not just the tutorial)

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/8318

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/8614

 

On 06/03/2025 at 5:05 PM, Vantha said:

- Simple Tasks. Basic instructions like "Left-click on your Civic Center", "Train _____ units", "Order them to build a storehouse". Only the active one needs to be displayed at once.

- Basic Information and Tips. Everything that doesn't directly help players progress through the game, but just teaches them how to do something. For example, how to select units, how to build structures, or how to read the minimap. This could still be done in an interactive way, but these sections need to be skippable.

No PR yet, but I have started working on this and more (like highlighting GUI objects to explain what they do) locally.

 

On 08/03/2025 at 11:44 AM, Vantha said:

As you might remember, I am using the 'desert_persia' biome mixed with the 'aegean_anatolian' biome. Southeastern Spain is a lot more arid than regions like Italy, Greece, or Turkey and not far away at all from a typical "desert". Honestly, I was really afraid it could turn out looking horrible, but they ended up fitting together quite well in my opinion.

The only thing I struggled with was fading between bushy and earthy spots. There are a lot of textures available for empty and dry grounds. And some others full of bushes ( / vegetation in general) - namely 'Desert plants b persia' and 'Desert plants a'. What's missing is something in between to fill this gap. Patches of bushes don't just abpruptly "end" at a particular point; instead, with increasing distance, bushes are becoming smaller and sparser. And it's this transition that I find very hard to replicate with available textures.
If someone could create a such a texture that would be amazing. Essentially a sparser variant of 'Desert plants b persia' (and if of 'Desert plants a' too that would be even better!)

I ended up creating a new set of terrain textures for it from scratch:

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/8214

And the first map is basically done.

 

 

Now, all of these PRs are still open, meaning the features aren't in the game yet. And realistically, it'll be quite some time before all of them do and until there's an actually playable version of this campaign. Especially since lately I've obviously focused more on stuff for the R28 release. However, even though I can't promise anything right now, my personal goal is to get it all ready for R29.

 

On 23/12/2025 at 6:07 PM, Gönndolsalv said:

Do you need help somewhere?

I can always use help, but not really with coding, just input and feedback is always helpful to me. Also, I would love to have illustrations in the campaign, so if anyone is, knows, or finds an artist to draw some images to our story (when we eventually get to writing it) that would be incredible.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Basic Campaign features (dialogue, objectives, etc.) and then also the Encyclopedia are two of my very strong desires.

Spoiler

Others: Target Flash, Waypoint click sound effect, ramming ship animations, ship resize (-25%), battalion capability (just give me the capability in the engine and I'll show you all how awesome it would be, utilizing DE). 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Vantha said:

- Basic Information and Tips. Everything that doesn't directly help players progress through the game, but just teaches them how to do something. For example, how to select units, how to build structures, or how to read the minimap. This could still be done in an interactive way, but these sections need to be skippable.

A tab for "History" that gives historical information and lore would be nice.

[Gönndolsalv]

Wow, thank you for the detailed reply! I see you've been busy.

Actually, it was the PR for the speech/dialogue system that reminded me of this thread. I agree that the game needs a new tutorial, followed by a campaign — that's probably the first thing a new user will do/expect. Also, there are none user-created campaign mods out there. While your changes will make things easier and look better, it would also be great to be able to create campaigns in Atlas.

Could it be possible for the user to choose where the task list is displayed, e.g. left, right, top, middle or bottom?

It would be great to have categories for the tips mentioned in the other thread for R29, too. Spare the index and search for later. 

[ShadowOfHassen]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Encyclopedia

And again I think that's waiting for another PR before Vantha and I can sit down and get that hashed out, format the previous article and organize everything in a way that makes it easy and convent for people to access it.

 

Edited yesterday at 00:59 by ShadowOfHassen

[Vantha]

11 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Basic Campaign features (dialogue, objectives, etc.) and then also the Encyclopedia are two of my very strong desires.

Me too. The campaign features have higher priority for me since they'll probably be more exciting for players, but as I said in the encyclopedia thread, I am also going to continue working on the encyclopedia eventually and then hopefully finally get it into the game. They are both huge projects, they have taken and will still take a lot of work and time, but it'll be great when they're completed, I believe we gotta think long-term here.

 

9 hours ago, Gönndolsalv said:

Could it be possible for the user to choose where the task list is displayed, e.g. left, right, top, middle or bottom?

In theory, yes, but you always have to account for smaller screen resolutions, where the in-game screen is quite cluttered already, so there aren't really many options. Maybe moving it to the right edge instead could also work, but there on small screen resolutions it'll conflict with the dropdown menu and also the tooltips of the units and buildings in the selection panel.

 

9 hours ago, Gönndolsalv said:

It would be great to have categories for the tips mentioned in the other thread for R29, too. Spare the index and search for later. 

Yeah, I'll do that, it's a comparably quick change, I just want to get a few things of my plate first.

[nifa]

I've been following these projects from time to time and it's really nice seeing there's progress being made. Looks really promising and i can't wait to see the results!