Hero Death Notification

[Vantha]

I found this interesting ticket (by @wowgetoffyourcellphone) for a hero death notification. I already wrote the necessary code, but there are still some details left for decision, which I want to discuss in this thread.

Firstly, what exactly should the chat notification say? And what players should it be broadcasted to? If more than just the affected player himself, it should be indicated whose hero it was. Maybe by coloring the hero name in the player's color? (Though I'm afraid that might cause some confusion; the hero could be mistaken for a player).
Currently, my best pick is "<ColoredPlayerName>'s hero <HeroName> has fallen in battle.", but I'm positive we can find a cooler formulation.

Secondly, the ticket also mentions a sound effect. I found the following unused hero death sound among the game files:

 

 

I think it sounds alright, but it's just... rather boring. Here is an alternative I was able to create (supposed to sound more epic), it resembles an ancient military signal horn:

 

Which one do you prefer? (Keep in mind that it is not the unit's death sound, but a globally played notification - like the alarm when being attacked)

And, yes, as suggested by the ticket, I also created a skull icon that appears over the portrait after the hero dies. Here is what it looks like in the UI:

[Gurken Khan]

22 minutes ago, Vantha said:

Which one do you prefer?

Sad trombone

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Yes, the first one is rather busy and would likely get lost among the other game sounds. The second one is much better.

Edited October 13 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Lion.Kanzen]

The second

By the way, I would have to start making sounds or mixing sounds in the absence of a sound designer.

Edited October 13 by Lion.Kanzen

[Samulis]

29 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

The second

By the way, I would have to start making sounds or mixing sounds in the absence of a sound designer.

No need; I can take care of creating any sound if needed (just tag me).

There are a range of unused attack-alternate sounds which may work (and were recorded with real ancient horns and flutes rather than samples), perhaps one of them would work? e.g. 06-Alt, 09-Alt seem sort of mournful to me. I cannot remember though which one we chose for the game though, and obviously this sound should be different!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/f6ot29y8g0h7w9zi4zyux/AJzOb3kuVNWPyqfuMhy7xSE?rlkey=ojaj28tbanhgsmg0yxp2hhejo&st=tvrfmeo3&dl=0

[Grautvornix]

2 hours ago, Vantha said:

Which one do you prefer? 

 

In my opinion, the second one is clearly much better 

[Lion.Kanzen]

35 minutes ago, Samulis said:

No need; I can take care of creating any sound if needed (just tag me).

There are a range of unused attack-alternate sounds which may work (and were recorded with real ancient horns and flutes rather than samples), perhaps one of them would work? e.g. 06-Alt, 09-Alt seem sort of mournful to me. I cannot remember though which one we chose for the game though, and obviously this sound should be different!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/f6ot29y8g0h7w9zi4zyux/AJzOb3kuVNWPyqfuMhy7xSE?rlkey=ojaj28tbanhgsmg0yxp2hhejo&st=tvrfmeo3&dl=0

The first It's shorter, I like it, it's immediate.

[Lion.Kanzen]

37 minutes ago, Samulis said:

No need; I can take care of creating any sound if needed (just tag me).

There are a range of unused attack-alternate sounds which may work (and were recorded with real ancient horns and flutes rather than samples), perhaps one of them would work? e.g. 06-Alt, 09-Alt seem sort of mournful to me. I cannot remember though which one we chose for the game though, and obviously this sound should be different!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/f6ot29y8g0h7w9zi4zyux/AJzOb3kuVNWPyqfuMhy7xSE?rlkey=ojaj28tbanhgsmg0yxp2hhejo&st=tvrfmeo3&dl=0

Good to see you. There aren't many sound engineers around here.

Do you think we could improve some of the sword sounds and the actual naval combat sounds in addition to the alert? You know... the thing us about the  missing sounds of clash of ram ships.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

38 minutes ago, Samulis said:

No need; I can take care of creating any sound if needed (just tag me).

There are a range of unused attack-alternate sounds which may work (and were recorded with real ancient horns and flutes rather than samples), perhaps one of them would work? e.g. 06-Alt, 09-Alt seem sort of mournful to me. I cannot remember though which one we chose for the game though, and obviously this sound should be different!

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/f6ot29y8g0h7w9zi4zyux/AJzOb3kuVNWPyqfuMhy7xSE?rlkey=ojaj28tbanhgsmg0yxp2hhejo&st=tvrfmeo3&dl=0

I think the second one is the current 'player resigned' sound. The first is rather complicated and similar to the resign sound. I think it should be quick and simple.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Don't forget to make more tickets, we have a long list of things to do.

 

[Samulis]

47 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I think the second one is the current 'player resigned' sound. The first is rather complicated and similar to the resign sound. I think it should be quick and simple.

It is absolutely no problem to record a new shorter sound if needed too, or create any other type of sound effect (e.g. a deep bell sound or a 'weaker' shorter horn sound perhaps). The link to the dropbox has other example sounds, those two just sounded perhaps most immediately applicable to me (which is probably why they were already used!).

Inspiration-wise, AoM of course uses a regular death sound in this case (same as a normal unit, if using the same voice bank), with a voice-over saying "A hero has fallen" as notification.

49 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Good to see you. There aren't many sound engineers around here.

Do you think we could improve some of the sword sounds and the actual naval combat sounds in addition to the alert? You know... the thing us about the  missing sounds of clash of ram ships.

Yes, though the sword sounds were problematic because at the time we were working on changing the way sounds work so that the impact (flesh, wood, stone, etc.) sounds are actually used depending on target. Not sure if that was finished. At the time we compromised by combining impact and swing sounds into single files. There is also the problem of the perceived sound of a sword (metal-on-metal scrape sound) vs. the real sound of a sword (usually just striking a shield). I think the sounds we used were a blend of real sword sound and perceived/"hollywood" sword sound.

Perhaps though we should have a new thread to discuss the sword sounds further.

[Stan`]

15 minutes ago, Samulis said:

Not sure if that was finished.

Narrator voice: It was not.

[Lion.Kanzen]

No doubt the style must be Hollywoodian.

 

I would add other alternate sounds to the combat, such as non-clashing sounds of the swords, sounds of groaning or straining, and sounds of pain from the men.

I have an example of our units fighting with another system from another game published by superficially.

 

https://youtube.com/shorts/-CKWsq2RMyo?si=w_66MFNM5Zr-CoPh

 

 

Edited October 13 by Lion.Kanzen

[Vantha]

Cool to see an audio engineer here.

 

13 hours ago, Samulis said:

It is absolutely no problem to record a new shorter sound if needed too, or create any other type of sound effect (e.g. a deep bell sound or a 'weaker' shorter horn sound perhaps). The link to the dropbox has other example sounds, those two just sounded perhaps most immediately applicable to me (which is probably why they were already used!).

I agree with @real_tabasco_sauce. The samples in the dropbox all sound really good, but might be mistaken for existing game sounds. If you could create a new one specifically for hero deaths, that'd be amazing.

 

13 hours ago, Samulis said:

Inspiration-wise, AoM of course uses a regular death sound in this case (same as a normal unit, if using the same voice bank), with a voice-over saying "A hero has fallen" as notification.

Personally, I'm against adding voiceline. We don't have anything comparable in the game right now, so it would probably feel out-of-place. And we can't expect players to understand English anyway.

 

17 hours ago, Vantha said:

Firstly, what exactly should the chat notification say? And what players should it be broadcasted to? If more than just the affected player himself, it should be indicated whose hero it was. Maybe by coloring the hero name in the player's color? (Though I'm afraid that might cause some confusion; the hero could be mistaken for a player).
Currently, my best pick is "<ColoredPlayerName>'s hero <HeroName> has fallen in battle.", but I'm positive we can find a cooler formulation.

And what about that? Is the current message fine? And notifiy just allies and observers? Or all players?

[Grautvornix]

Oops - actually, I wonder if as a player I would be aware that my ally actually trained a hero. I am not so sure to have seen any respective message (or maybe I did not pay enough attention ). Does anyone know more?

 

Given the fact that heroes don't stand out as e.g. in the Ilias I am not sure if we need to inform everyone that one has fallen. Personally, I believe that neutral and adverse players don't need that notification anyway. Allies and observers would be sufficient.

 

Regarding the message, I would not use the words "in battle" as there could also be a Gaia- attack (lions, etc.)  

[Gurken Khan]

58 minutes ago, Grautvornix said:

I wonder if as a player I would be aware that my ally actually trained a hero.

I think there are portraits of allied heroes next to your own hero portrait.

1 hour ago, Grautvornix said:

Regarding the message, I would not use the words "in battle" as there could also be a Gaia- attack (lions, etc.)  

You battle lions etc. too, right? I'd just go for a poignant default message not accounting for fringe cases, e.g. the player killing their hero themself.

[Vantha]

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

I think there are portraits of allied heroes next to your own hero portrait.

Are you sure? I don't recall ever seeing my allies' heroes there.

 

Heroes are quite game-changing units which is why some players try to target them first. Whether or not an enemy hero has died yet can be hard to tell in a big battle - but pretty significant information since many heroes also boost the performance of units around them. Should we give away that information away to enemies?

 

The ticket also suggests "_____ has been vanquished"...

[Gurken Khan]

1 hour ago, Vantha said:

Are you sure? I don't recall ever seeing my allies' heroes there.

Maybe that's only in replays; I saw vids with several portraits.

[Vantha]

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

Maybe that's only in replays; I saw vids with several portraits.

Yeah, observers (during both games and replays) see all living heroes in the top left, I think.

[Grautvornix]

8 hours ago, Vantha said:

The ticket also suggests "_____ has been vanquished"...

Frankly, I prefer "has fallen in battle" over "has been vanquished". Ther former is a bit less formal and better understandable to the casual Englisch speaker.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, Grautvornix said:

Frankly, I prefer "has fallen in battle" over "has been vanquished". Ther former is a bit less formal and better understandable to the casual Englisch speaker.

I agree , but it doesn't affect me since I use the translated version.

"Fallen in battle"  sounds more honorific btw.

[nifa]

On 13/10/2024 at 5:05 PM, Vantha said:

Currently, my best pick is "<ColoredPlayerName>'s hero <HeroName> has fallen in battle.", but I'm positive we can find a cooler formulation.

Maybe civ specific with a reference to their mythology?

e.g. greek:

<ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> has crossed River Styx to meet Hades.

e.g. britons

The valkyries led <ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> to valhalla.

Neither is english my mother tongue nor am I a historian but I hope you get the Idea:)

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, nifa said:

Maybe civ specific with a reference to their mythology?

e.g. greek:

<ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> has crossed River Styx to meet Hades.

e.g. britons

The valkyries led <ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> to valhalla.

Neither is english my mother tongue nor am I a historian but I hope you get the Idea:)

The point is to understand the reference. If no one knows what it means to cross the river Styx.

[nifa]

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

The point is to understand the reference. If no one knows what it means to cross the river Styx.

Make i two sentences. <ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> has fallen. He crossed River Styx to meet Hades.

[Lion.Kanzen]

30 minutes ago, nifa said:

Make i two sentences. <ColoredPlayerName>'s Hero <HeroName> has fallen. He crossed River Styx to meet Hades.

Better