Radiotraining

So yeah.. it takes a couple of hits to give critical damage. Nothing new, but maybe the mechanic can be optimized a bit better. I think that, by having a visual appearance of damage, you can really add more depth and maybe, as I suggested, add different features

That was it! prova_rams.mp4

True! It was working just fine on my laptop but from the phone I have issues. But I thought it was only me. Maybe is the .mov format.. I'll convert and post it again!

Hey man! If interested, I'm working on a wide update of the game (new civs, new buildings, new mechanics, new units ..), taking the update of Yekaterina but updating it further. If you want to try something fresh I leave you the link to it as well. Is still a beta, but is currently under revision, so it may be available from the next alpha release of 0ad! https://github.com/stereotipo/millenniumad Let me know also if you encounter any bugs, issues or you have feedback! That would be quite useful! Have fun! ^^

Thanks! Yeah! No idea on a technical level.. I thought it could be theoretically feasible, but gotta check your suggestion! would be cool to try!

Is not a problem, because you want to have that critical advantage during a siege. So is okay if the player would lose functionalities and territory when the building is attacked. (Or maybe I understood the problem wrong?) My only concern was to not alter too much the current gameplay: if you have a turret, you want to knock it off rapidly with a ram. And that's okay. But maybe, by adding more layers to it, you can make the building more steady and resistant, so it takes another 25% to really demolish it to the ground. The reason would be mainly better realism. In addition, it could make the attack the primary choice of units (instead of the clunky conquering) and, as defender, you may have more chance to save a collapsing building by repairing it.

Very pretty!! What a great work man!!

Okay, I was experimenting a bit with fire / damage (only on an aesthetical level, not as "burning" mechanic), and I have a couple of feedbacks: - The effect, while artisanal, is pretty good! Is very nice to see the damage progression that you inflict to the buildings and it really adds a layer of depth in the gameplay - Flames and smoke are also a nice touch. It works well with rams too, without looking so "weird" as some people feared (that's my impression..) - - - - - - - - However: - Rams are, as usual, too fast/strong in destroying buildings. It takes a couple of thrusts and any building already collapses. This is nothing new in the game but I always found it a bit "weird", because buildings seems super fragile with rams. While they should be a bit more "sturdy". - I think the strength of rams comes from a gameplay necessity: it can't take too long to destroy a building for obvious reasons. But the mechanic comes off as weird and unrealistic - - - - - - - - So I thought of a compromise: - What if, instead of destroying buildings so fast, you just need to reach a critical point (25% of health?) and the building then is "de-activated" (gaia?). Fortress/towers won't shoot arrows and barracks can't be used to train soldiers. Then, only at this point, is possible to capture it. Or you have to repair it to regain functions. (or burn it mercilessly to the ground) - I think that, by using visual cues of damage it could actually make sense to have this sort of distinction. - This way, buildings can have more resistance to ram thrusts (more realistic), but at the same time this won't compromise the gameplay, as you don't need so much extra time to get a building and change the whole balancing during sieges. - I think it could be both realistic and also it could be an alternative to the weird mechanic of conquer + demolish that I, among many, find annoying. I don't know if it's the right place to discuss it. But I thought it may be relevant connected with visual improvements of damaged buildings. And also it could be integrated with the idea of "burning" the buildings (maybe after 25% of health the building health slowly depletes itself anyway?) EDIT: attached a video of my experiments with building damage prova_rams.mov

best effect I think is on Ancestor Legacy (here at 9:22 for example) Beside the really good fire effect, another element would be for the building to revert to its own skeleton structure, when it gets completely eaten by the fire. Any suggestion on how to make it? Maybe add a scaffolding as a prop in the "death" variation?

Taking inspiration from this thread : Following Stan suggestions, I decided to experiment a bit this feature in my mod by creating some gradual damage textures. Although not perfect, I'd say the result is not too bad either. Still better than nothing. I imagine Stan had some better ideas when he talked about various prop-points for fire and smoke effects (right now everything is all kinda basic). The material is, as usual, in the same repository on github. I don't know about the poison/"burning effect" to deplete the health. This is something I still have to look on. But yeah! I'm open to feedback and suggestions. I guess it's easier to experiment alternative feature elements on a spin-off mod before implementing anything to the main game

I agree. To me it looks like an accidental loophole, more than a feature designed this way. In either case, I agree is weird. I'm starting to think that it would be preferable also for the AI to actually damage buildings with rams and units instead of resorting to capture + demolish. Or maybe it could be necessary to add some limitation to the demolish feature.

This is great to hear!! ^^ and yeah, I definitely think there's room for improvement and creativity to make the game even more immersive! I was exactly discussing yesterday the lack of more varied sounds during events like battles, and more sound details, like the sound of hoofs of horses while walking and, in general, a bit more ambient noise. Do you have some ideas about it..? Would it be something compatable with your interest in sound design? Definitely interested to hear more from you!

Awesome!! welcome to the forum! Listening your soundcloud.. congratulations, very nice stuff! If you're interested in contributing with the game, I'd say that your talent would be very, very welcomed! And certainly there's plenty of space where sound and music can thrive! The work here is mostly voluntary-based so, beside the portfolio, I would suggest to take also personal initiative in the forum and propose yourself ideas and improvements. What do you think @Stan`? Would you have specific requests to @Saifeddine when it comes to sound/music?

- okay, since we're here: was thinking that it wouldn't be bad to add something dedicated to the act of "conquering", so they don't appear simply silent .. but this is up to you, if you had some ideas already for voice acting

It's okay... it wasn't a complaint, just a suggestion A lot of genius stuff in this game come from those kind of limitations that can be bypassed with creativity ehehe building damage is one of those! If not possible, then is fine. Anyway: - for the buildings, I think it could be still possible to add a dedicated "playlist" for damages, cracks and fire when under attack (I may be wrong tho..) - for the battles, yeah, that would be quite an "extra"... I don't know if also here is possible to add various different "playlists" under the tag <variation>, so they can be picked up randomly in rotation.. I don't know, last one is really just a suggestion

- by the way, slightly unrelated (and it would deserve a thread on its own..), since we were talking about AOE and sound, it would be interesting to add also more elements like war cries and shoutings etc.. during battles. I'm not saying so exaggerated like is on aoe, but just a few more voices could maybe add a bit of depth. Also sounds of hoofs and horses. Problem, I guess, is to produce/source the sound.. but also I don't think such thing has been much discussed

Another thing that could add a lot of immersion is sound. It could be both for fire/flames, but also crushes/bump sounds of things getting smashed and destroyed. For example: I saw the animation of Chartaginian buildings and the visual effect of destruction is pretty good already, but with sound could be even 200% better. Is it something possible to add? Like in the variation tags or something..?

@Lion.Kanzen how would you imagine a better mechanic to set buildings on fire..? It could be interesting the use of torches, but hopefully not like molotov cocktails as in AOE4 or ancestor legacy

I'm one of those that would like to see more visual effects in the destruction of buildings (seeing the enemy village burn after a raid is a nice feeling...! ) and I always felt there was something "missing" to make the conquest and battles more exciting. But, as Stan said, technically is not so straightforward to implement, so I guess I'll have to be patient for such a feature. (In case, I can experiment something with my mod, @Stan` .. but maybe you'll have to explain me a little bit how to make it work) About the new mechanic, it could be worthed to try something.. one pro in favour would be that it could make the destruction of buildings more appealing than conquering. Currently conquering is easier than destroy buildings, but conquering alone is a bit of a "clunky" mechanic. Don't get me wrong, I like the possibility to conquer something, but other times I'd rather burn something to the ground, and the trick of conquering + delete is really not a great feature, more like an accidental mechanic. By making the destruction of buildings more "accessible", it could make it a more viable strategic choice alongside conquering. In case, I like a lot that this would be restricted to civilian buildings! Makes a lot of sense, and wouldn't make such a feature critical in the gameplay.

Ah! I once proposed the same and wondered how could be possible.. very interesting! Makes sense Yeah, I know the pain you're referring to!

This precisely. I stated that it "defeats the meaning of range units" for this reason. Another (last) thing, I would prefer to have the option to increase accuracy with dedicated techs during the game as part of a deliberate strategic gain, instead of having it fixed to 100% from the start. It just sounds like riding a bike with pedal-assistance or singing with the autotune. Yeah, sure, it may be useful in certain occasions, but I rather not have it most of the times. Well, sorry for my intervention. Just a player, nothing else. I'll stop here and won't interrupt the conversation anymore. Maybe it could be sorted out better with a mod, in any case, and check such function with it.

I would be fair to say that the compromise proposed by Alre could - maybe -work, if we really have to. But I don't know, I still fundamentally disagree. I don't see the necessity and is not a game philosophy I would espouse, centered on competitive play. But whatever guys. Do what you like. I'm not in the balancing team and I'm just a simple player. I just find weird that we're really discussing this thing. I thought it was quite -universally- a downgrade but maybe it was just me.

what's the purpose? avoid "dancing"? Is not hardcoded anywhere that you're supposed to "dance" anytime, it's simply a player's behaviour. On the contrary, to punish the behaviour, you want to hardcode a different game mechanic altogether. This stems uniquely from a competitive mindset, but I don't find it necessary at all to the game. It also create an unbalance, since melee units (which are supposed to be the major composition of ancient armies) become simply meatshield under machinegun fire. Agree that -perhaps- the difference won't be as perceptible, but I don't find this an improvement, nor a feature. Yes, it does remove immersion to have perfectly accurate units, and I've seen this concept at play already from the aforementioned AOE4 example: it's ugly. The UI doesn't bother me at all. EDIT: That would be the only pro I could see

what? are we really talking about the 100% accurate projectiles? You guys serious? It doesn't make any sense from a "realistic" point of view in a game that pride itself to be historically accurate. And is also just plain bad. It looks bad. It takes away from "immersion" with those "missile guidance" arrows and defeat the meaning of range units, by eliminating one of their weak spots. It could make (maybe) sense with some modern warfare games, not in an ancient warfare theme. If big games make this choice to follow their competitive, multiplayer, big-buck starcraft arena target good for them. I don't need it. At least indie games like this can allow themselves to be a bit unpopular but genuine.

I downloaded the xiongnu pack to try one thing, but it seems a bit broken any idea of what could be that line "CColor has to be an object?" maybe is just my own version of the game? EDIT: LMAO! Cancel that! it was a conflicting thing in my version.. it works!