BreakfastBurrito_007

We will never forget him @nani

Bowtech (aka ElefanteKing) There are no other top players

Perhaps indibil should make +25% train time instead of -25% that way caping production buildings could stop it. another thing could be to change indibil from percentage cost reduction to reduction of a set amount of resources. For example “20 wood less” or “10 metal less”. since champs and cav cost more, the bonus scales with them better.

I am wondering about firecav whether a true damage nerf is best or some other kind of change. Keep in mind there is also briton chariot, but its not as easy as firecav in a25. It is also much easier to prevent a briton champion spam than iberians, because food eco can be attacked much easier. range reduction accuracy reduction less fire damage to strong and important structures like cc, fort (give those structures 2x as much fire resistance) reduce pierce armor by 1 The power of firecav in a25 has made ibers a cav civ. Also, they have 1 other powerful champion, so a direct damage nerf is certainly a good option too. A good end result would be that firecav take more losses in more situations, and are not as game-ending when fully massed.

@LetswaveaBook has a mod in "proposed features" discussion that is pretty universally liked. There has not been a great deal of testing, but the testing that has happened has been great. A remaining point of uncertainty are the civ bonuses that might be changed or added. But its probably best to look at it separately.

I believe Demitrius the Besieger already does this.

If athenians get a team bonus that gives a metal or stone trickle, then it should be quite slow (maybe 1/2 speed of ptol bonus) and also start at a later time, perhaps upon completion of p2 phase-up for each player in the alliance. This would be to prevent players from starting p2 with almost all the ingredients for p3 already accumulated. Perhaps another Persian civ bonus could be double horse carrying capacity. Something to do with horse breeding. The reason for this is to allow pers to have an easier time making use of horses for food eco. Sure persians have 2 kinds of horses in p1, but they still depend on cavalry for p1 and p2 security, which means if they don't have any hunt, then they will not be able to stop rushes in p1 and stop encroachment in p2. If persians can hunt more efficiently (better carrying capacity) then a pers player can feel better about making cavalry to not die. @LetswaveaBook what is the reason for the first trader or first healer being free in brit and carthaginian team bonuses? To me, this seems more like a token and less like an actionable team bonus. my thoughts were: Athens, "democracy" -50% phase up cost and time. britons, maurs, or carth (whichever makes more sense): -15% batch training time for women. (for a persian stable -10% batch train time changes train time from 1:34 to 1:15 for 10 hyrcanian cav). The gameplay benefits of this would be a faster eco for the team of this bonus, but also greater risk of exploiting the bonus. Melee inf +10% move speed. This is an economic bonus, because it would be a little easier to stop rushes and melee would have faster return rates to res, and a military bonus because maneuvering would be easier. seles could get their civ bonus buffed a bit, since -20% is not very much. -25% would be better and maybe add -25% build time too. Macedonian civ bonus has a big problem with it (res generation), so it could get changed to be the same as kush bonus but for siege instead of eles. Maurs: current bonus, but +garrisoned heal rate also Persians: stables -50% cost and build time, and stable upgrades -50% time (like @LetswaveaBook had said). (just -50% time does not compare to gauls bonus for military upgrades). Some civ (maybe brit): citizen soldiers get same berry rate as women this helps that team take berries that are in dangerous places and have an easier time transitioning to farms. The current situation is that most civ bonuses are weak besides gaul, iber, ptol, and rome. If we nerf the powerful civ bonuses, it is basically like removing civ bonuses from the game, since they would not be considered during civ selection. Because of this, it makes much more sense to make new civ bonuses or buff old ones for civs like brits, athens, pers, maur, carth, and maybe sele

@LetswaveaBook what are your thoughts on changing the team bonuses for civs in this mod. I suppose we could quickly think of some for britons, carthaginians, persians, and athenians. Perhaps also a replacement for Mace team bonus since that is busted. Maybe +catapult splash dmg if it is possible?

Why imagine when you can feel it multiple times lol

Honestly, I think the best, and simplest feature for counter smurfing would be more stats about 0ad accounts. It would be way easier to identify the smurf or validate claims of smurfiness. The following information would be very useful account creation date hours the person has logged on lobby. civilisation usage breakdown top 15 players who join games with this player I think at the bare minimum this would help prevent the most toxic smurf behavior (misleading others on skill level).

@Boudica I was able to kill 4 cc's before 5 mins. There is no way to stop the ele hero. XD. I simply walked right up as soon as the 3m ceasefire ended. Unlike in a23 an ele hero is worth 2 eles of damage and 3 eles of resistance.

I feel that this would mean people would just make the more op hero 3 times and not think about hero choice order. For example. I like to use sele ele hero for fast ele + inf attack. When he dies I try to switch to cav and make cav hero. With this change you would see gaul players go: vercingetorix, vercingetorix, vercingetorix.

@Stan` any civ affected by the mace team bonus can do it too.

@LetswaveaBook from what you said it seems that the longer build time of pyramids makes their construction much less obvious than the 150 stone cost that people see initially. I think between the placement strategies, cost, and time to build, it should be a very interesting mechanic that can have ranges of success or failure.

Well, to be honest I was not exactly testing the unit. I had just come to the realization that mercs cost only 25 more metal and can go to rank 3, I am not sure how much it compares to the speed increase of skiritai. while testing with @real_tabasco_sauce I did notice that the speed made it much easier to wrap and overwhelm other armies.

It seems that skiritai can't rank to rank 3. (latest mod V2)

HAMDOG

@LetswaveaBookI think it should take some planning and resource prioritization to make best use of pyramids, so restricting the radius sounds good.

I like almost all these changes. In particular I think buffing the melee inf attack is good, because it will help mitigate the same balance problem attack ground would address. I am sad to see the iber bonus get nerfed again, but I think it is for the best until other civs get good team bonuses. Champ horses upgrades are agreeable too. Skiri sound really fun now :D. I can test this mod this weekend.

Some people may be against homing projectiles due to the visual, or historical accuracy, but to me the number one thing is dumbing down the gameplay. If you remove accuracy stats from ranged units they become functionally equivalent to melee units. I talked to SaidRdz and he said this is a main reason why he gave up playing aoe4. you keep accuracy for ranged units for the same reason you try to implement attack ground for them, charging for melee units, movement characteristics for horsemen (acceleration can be a start). The reason is to make the units have actionable mechanisms that influence their use.

I think it is too cheap as well, 500 wood 300 stone (civic center) sounds a bit better in my opinion. Keep in mind the build time is a lot longer than 2 houses, 1 barracks, and a storehouse. I do like the removal of the metal cost though.

yea I tried it out and it certainly did not seem OP or abusable.

I like some of the balance changes, and I am worried about others. I am not sure if you wanted free livestock available at all corrals or just the gaia ones, but free livestock seems like a nice way to allow for both fields and corral food income through the whole timespan of a match. @Player of 0AD is, from my observation, the best player at managing corral economy as it exists in A25, so I would be interested to hear his thoughts about that part of the mod. I think this mod is complex enough that we ought to just get together and test its gameplay before more discussion.

This is very exciting @ValihrAnt, I will try it soon.