Sundiata
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Posts posted by Sundiata
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@feneur Thanks for explaining. I'm aware of a second part being discussed, but my concern over the past years has been that maybe deferring stuff to a part two (that may take another decade) to lower the workload, is actually making research more difficult, because what can be referenced becomes quite arbitrarily defined by the 500BCE-1AD period, while a lot of really interesting and interconnected stuff was happening the 2 centuries or so before and after these cut-off points. I understand that there is indeed some wiggle-room for which I'm grateful, I just think the wiggle-room should be formally extended to Classical Antiquity, and let part two begin from the start of the Middle Ages, the 5th century, after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Those timeframes are at least recognisable to historians and amateurs alike. I don't think 500BCE means a whole lot to anyone in particular.
@Lion.Kanzen Also having different Roman factions seems a little weird to me, but maybe that's just me? Republican Romans evolving in to Imperial Romans over the course of the different phases seems so cool to me. Byzantines would be the Eastern Romans in part 2. Logical?
Guys, by the way, I know I'm spewing out a bunch of wild ideas out here, and I don't want you to think that I expect you to do anything with it. I just see the forums as the perfect place for brainstorming. I won't get offended if these ideas get mercilessly shot down, I'm just testing the limits of the game
, and I thank you for your patience with me and actually reading these suggestions. Just wanted to clarify that.
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50 minutes ago, fatherbushido said:
you should emphasized that somewhere
Where should I emphasise it? Maybe I don't quite get what you mean.. Like create a ==[TASK]== in Art Development?
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Beautiful!
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You guys used the wrong reference for that special Persian Gate :-/
The Ishtar Gate was built by Nebuchadnezzar II of the Neo-Babylonian Empire in 575BCE in Babylon. Persepolis, the actual Achaemenid Persian capital should be the primary source for such buildings, like the CC, which is excellent. I've seen other people criticise the Persians for looking too Babylonian before in youtube comments.
The Gate of All Nations, built by Xerxes I between 486 and 465BCE at Persepolis would be a much better option in my opinion.
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1 hour ago, Nescio said:
- economic dock
- military shipyard
- siege workshop
- barracks
- archery range
- cavalry stables
- chariot stables
- camel stables
- elephant stables
- dog kennels
Isn't that a little overkill? Siege workshop, archery range, cavalry stables for all civ's: definitely yes!
But chariots and stables seems like a logical marriage. Camels and stables? Close enough for me. How many different camel-units is a single civ going to train anyway? Elephant stables, perhaps yes. Dog kennels: meh, a tech/upgrade called "kennels" at the barracks should do, I think.
I like differentiating fishing hut, trading dock, and military shipyard, but then again, I'd also like to see a dedicated economic structure (civ-specific economic speciality) for every civ, as a pre-requisite for trade between markets, or allies. But that's a very tall wish-list, and only very few people actually modelling and coding in the possibilities...
My excitement will jump through the roof if/when the stables and archery ranges are implemented for all civs...
Perhaps the other stuff can come only after that.
SpoilerI think it would be nice for subsequent building-models to focus on the historically iconic structures/monuments/historic special buildings of each civ. I don't see why unique buildings should be limited to 1 or 2. They're the perfect way to diversify the civs, and create unique abilities/playing styles for each. I also don't see a problem in one civ having only 2 special buildings, and another 4 for example. There's plenty of ways to balance these things. So a civ like the Romans can have all it's iconic structures including the Colosseum, and make them feel more bombastic, like real Romans. Gauls, Britons and Iberians for example would have only 2 special buildings because they're weren't really the greatest monument builders. This would add some nice contrast between the Mediterranean civs and the "barbarian" civs.
By the way, i know the Colosseum was only completed in 80AD, but 0AD's timeframe is chosen so utterly randomly, without any regard to what was actually happening around the world in that time, it is something that shouldn't be dogmatically adhered to, in my opinion. Romans without the Colosseum, or Imperial overtones in late-game, is a bitter cookie for Rome-lovers coming to 0AD... I'd argue to expand 0AD's base-timeframe beginning from around The Bronze Age Collapse (1200-600BCE) and advent of the Iron Age, all the way through to the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, and the onset of the dark ages. There'd be so much more possibilities for a single game! (Neo-)Assyrians, (Neo-)Babylonians, Germanics and Dacians for example....
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I think it's been pointed out an uncomfortable amount of times that there are some core issues with 0AD... As a one man army, LordGood is going a long way mediating this, including elemental aspects of a fun game of this type: building variety and logical options/choices tied to those buildings like techs and units. Lack of building diversity takes away the fun in a game longer than 20min. Adding as much as 3 new (functional) building types per civ is awesome! coders should try to keep up with this man, because he clearly has vision, and his work leaves a very noticeable impression on the game..
For example, I saw Nescio and Leper working on a way to be able to display more building slots in the GUI over here, which already solves one potential problem. I know the AI is a different beast altogether, but LordGood's and Stanislas69's progress in the modelling department merits the attention from coders. This can be a nice communal project. Has anybody asked @Alexandermb wether he's interested in contributing models for this project? Three people working on it at the same time is sure to speed up the process considerably.
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Why not just use a small, simple structure in one corner, very similar to an Iberian house, and place the stalls around that (market consisting of a "storehouse" and stalls, instead of just stalls). Something like lordgood's format for the Kushite market:
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LordGood making it shine bright Lacedaemon!
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Yes, the targets are very cool! Targets for archery range and dummies for barracks seems like a good distinguishing feature indeed...
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Thanks!
13 minutes ago, LordGood said:someone should have told them that doric columns dont have bases
I lolled...
14 minutes ago, LordGood said:and I'm left wondering if that superstructure is wooden
Seen as it was probably painted, you wouldn't be able to tell either way
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@LordGood, another thing:
Everybody knows the 4 settlements that came together to form ancient Sparta: Limnae, Pitana, Mesoa and Cynosura (actually, I had to google that)
But there's a 5th settlement, Amyklaion, or Amykles, site of the sanctuary of Amyklaion and the Throne of Apollo, 5km south of Sparta. You can actually see it on the southern edge of the map I shared in the previous post as Amyclae.
SpoilerTemenos of the Sanctuary of Apollo and Hyakinthos at Amyklaion:
Remains of the Throne of Apollo:
Throne of Apollo
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Holy moly that's cool! I love it!
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@Nescio's explanation of the term temenos is indeed more accurate than mine
@LordGood I'm no Sparta-expert, but realising how difficult it is to find good inspiration with such a scarcity of remains from the period, I thought I'd share these... They're a little too fanciful to my understanding of Sparta, but they are based on ancient descriptions, and are some of the very few tentative reconstructions of the city I've come across. Maybe it will help.
SpoilerEssay on the topography of Sparta and it's environs. You can check out the specific location of all the major sites on this one
The Dromos in Sparta (idea?)
"Imaginary reconstruction of the agora of Sparta. In the background, the Acropolis. In the foreground, the statue of Hermes Agoraeus with young Dionusus. On the right, the Persian stoa which housed the spoils of the Persian wars. In the background, the sanctuary of Moirai with Orpheus's grave."
"Depiction of Spartan youth practicing sports at the Gymnasium."
"Imaginary reconstruction of ancient Sparta" It's only partially walled in this one
But seriously, the city was flanked by rivers and mountains on all sides... It really didn't need a wall.
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@serveurix, it's called a Temenos, basically a sacred enclosure, from the Greek verb τέμνω (temnō), "to cut", in reference to the action of cutting off a piece of land by walling it. The term is commonly used in regard to Greek as well as Egyptian culture, where sanctuaries and temples where often walled. It serves a symbolic purpose (separating that which belongs to the god from the rest), as well as a secondary defensive purpose, protecting the massive riches inside the temple from potential raiders (lot's of gold).
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3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
It just doesn't feel very epic getting mauled by an enemy's massive army of 6 chariot archers.
I think this is one of the points where 0AD has a potentially major advantage over AoE. The 200 pop-cap thing was one the most aggravating limits in the game, and 0AD can potentially handle thousands of units. A lot of room for epicness right there. But without a battalion and army system, it's going to be a hot mess.
Armour upgrade researched at the blacksmith makes perfect sense. I also think tower upgrades at the tower make a lot more sense than at a granary. Alternatively they could be researched at the fortress or a "research institution" like a library.
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Scythian references by Evgeny Kray and Alexander Deruchenko:
SpoilerEvgeny Kray:
Alexander Deruchenko
And finally this: Scythian horse fully equipped with reproductions of horse accoutrements found in ancient Scythian chief grave.
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Don't know if these have been shared before, a collection of Thracian units:
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Ok, @balduin, I see you like licenses... It's really not that important because these things are not meant to be in the game. If it's for in the game, I'll make/write it specifically for that purpose. Anyway, for you:
I hereby explicitly grant permission to anyone to use anything of my own writing or creation, and have posted in this thread, under the following licence: CC BY-SA 3.0
SpoilerYou are free to:
Share — copy and redistribute the material in any medium or format
Adapt — remix, transform, and build upon the material
for any purpose, even commercially.
The licensor cannot revoke these freedoms as long as you follow the license terms.
Under the following terms:
Attribution — You must give appropriate credit, provide a link to the license, and indicate if changes were made. You may do so in any reasonable manner, but not in any way that suggests the licensor endorses you or your use.
ShareAlike — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.
No additional restrictions — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.
I am 100% for animated storyboards, but are there any animators in the community willing to work on this? There's a bunch of nice features on the video recording stuff in Atlas, so theoretically you can use 0AD itself as the platform to create these animated histories for each civ. But it's a lot of complicated work not a lot of people know how to do, me thinks...
Quoting myself here: "Video-editing features can be used more often to make pretty "short-video's" introducing all of the civ's in a 45sec. format for example.." related?
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@balduin lol, I just made it for fun because I was bored, it's entirely created with storyboardthat.com, so it's definitely not meant to be in game. By the way, everything I write and produce which is published here is free for all...
8 minutes ago, balduin said:Maybe we can have later a campaign for the Kushites or a small tutorial in which the player will get introduced to the Kushites with a storyboard like this.
As long as it's a much more mature style than this, it would be a nice idea for all the civs.
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I second Tomcelmare. I really love what you're doing here! I hope you continue these updates for all the civ's. They make the game look all the more beautiful... Archery range, siege workshop and stables are clearly distinguishable to me. I'm sure props like a horse and saddle, a semi-completed siege-weapon and bows and arrows lying around will clarify their respective roles even further.
I have one small suggestion. If you intend the archery range to be a building from where you recruit archers, maybe close the outside face of the building on the opposite side of the targets, to create a more enclosed structure on that end, other wise it might look like you're recruiting people from an open space.
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The Kingdom of Kush: A (very) Short History
A very compact, crash-course in Kushite History
I still have so much to do, but still managed to get bored, and made a very short, simple storyboard on post-Egyptian Kush (using Storyboard That). Just for fun. Basically Kush for dummies. A useful intro for school-kids and people looking for a bite-sized 5min introduction on this history.
Individual scenes:
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Like these ones, for example?
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@Nescio: The references actually include a war-elephant statuette from Meroe, with mahout...
In the Lepsius collection alone, six elephants are depicted, 2 of them held by a rope, one elephant can be seen between the feet of a ruler, the same way dogs and lions are sometimes depicted and one deity(?) can be seen riding an elephant:
Elephant depictions feature prominently in Musawwarat es Sufra, and important sites in Meroe itself. Ptolemies to their North acquired part of their elephant-corps, specifically from the Island of Meroe, (the location of Musawwarat) as well as mahouts... Axumites, to the South of Kush, acquired some of their war-elephants from the southern reaches of Kush.
Finally, I'll share the following image of the war elephants in Musawwarat again, showing it in a bigger context. An oversized Kushite ruler is seen standing with one foot on the back of each of the two elephants, leading prisoners of war by a rope, as if to say that victory was delivered on the backs of these elephants.
Also, you said: "The usage of war elephants is well attested for...". I need to remark that most of that "attesting" is done by sometimes ambiguous classical authors, and blindly parroted by historians ever since. I'm not doubting the use of war-elephants in those empires, I'm just clarifying that even in those "logical examples", clear evidence is often lacking. Their history is just taken for granted, while that of Kush is simply overlooked even though there is a significant amount of really tangible information to go on compared to other states of the time. Either way, most academics in the field consider Kush to have fielded war-elephants, at least occasionally, including, but absolutely not limited to, David Nicolle Phd, who i quoted here.
About siege-towers and battering rams: There is a very clear reference to the use of battering rams and siege-towers dating from the 8th century BCE. Written in stone, using hieroglyphs, a stela dedicated by Piye of the 25th (Kushite) dynasty narrates the conquest of Egypt. I have had no luck finding references that date to 500BCE - 1AD time-period though. I have to clearly remark that there were many impressive fortifications in Kush, and internal struggles unavoidably led to siege-warfare within Kushite territory. When rulers put down internal rebellions, it often included retaking forts and fortified towns/cities. The nature of these fortifications was such that siege was necessary. I will be sharing more images of Meroitic period fortifications soon. The frequent forays in to Southern Egypt also meant taking some mighty impressive forts, some originally built during the Middle Kingdom but reoccupied by Ptolemies at some point. I would prefer a simple battering ram over the complex tower though...
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Zuper nice... Standing ovation!
Walls & Gates
in Help & Feedback
Posted
@stanislas69 Thanks! I found it. Never saw this topic before... Anyway, in that case, don't mind my previous comment