Sundiata

Thanks! I try...

Don't forget hair, 19th century West-African military culture, paganism, the phenotypes of South Africa and AOM. If there's anything you feel like sharing about yourself, or some other cool thing you have in mind, I'd say go for it! (as long as we only go off-topic in one dead thread at a time, I think it should be ok ). Check out this tiny Alaskan Tyrannosaurid, called the Nanuqsaurus (A) (for comparison, B is Tyrannosaurus Rex): Isn't it cute? Kind of like a morbidly obese Deinonychus without the the murderous claw. The Flintstones' equivalent of an overweight Rottweiler. "Who's a good boy? Who's a good boooy? Who's a good b-... AAARGH, IT JUST ATE MY ARM! DAMMIT"

Jesus Christ...

@Genava55, lol, I just watched that one a few hours ago myself... Nice video's...

Civil disobedience... I couldn't care less what Paul Mcarthney and his 1.2 BILLION dollars net worth thinks about his "lost" revenue or copyright laws. Greedy dirtbag... I never even bothered downloading his mediocre music... And to do it under the guise of protecting the little guys... Ugh, makes me so sick... The little guys will not benefit from this AT ALL... Resist!

It's all over the world, it seems. Last year I was back in Belgium (Antwerp) for 5 months, working in a grocery store, and I got held up at gunpoint! A second guy was threatening a little 50+ year old lady co-worker with a knife... They were some nervous little idiots so nobody complied and then some drunks from a nearby cafe who had seen it all happen from a distance rushed them. They got away, but without any cash... Of course the shop lost several thousand Euro in revenue while it was closed... Idiots... It was the 11th armed robbery in 9 years or so... Antwerp seems to be turning into a little ghetto... In Ghana too, crime is on the rise. They just broke into my neighbours' home a few days ago... Hunger will jump any wall... As a species, we, the human race have been grossly mismanaging this planet and its resources for too long, and we're slowly but surely paying the price. We have money for war, but no money to feed the poor. Let alone create a world where everyone can lead a meaningful life. Supposedly our living standards have never been higher, but desperation is rising in every corner of the globe. Wonder where it will all go. I guess I'll just be playin 0AD as the world slowly burns One of the reasons that I like the Wildfire games community so much. People are just dedicated to creating the best game they can make. Where you're from, what god you pray to (or not), what you look like, what your political views are, are all irrelevant. People don't seem to care (not that there isn't room to explore each others worlds, obviously). Which is beautiful in its own way. I don't even know for sure who's male or female... Doesn't matter. What you can offer to improve the game is what matters. People here also have a genuine interest in history, which is really nice! A healthy level of critical thinking and good manners are also pleasant. There's almost no profanity here either, which is a welcome relief on the internet.

Thanks, and nope, I never had issues with weight... It's a lot heavier in water, so I'll never be an olympic swimmer, but even that never held me back from recreational swimming (still a faster swimmer than most ). That said, I've known people who suffered from heavy locks and ended up cutting them because of it... It depends on your type of hair, I guess. Uhu... The 5 Anglo-Ashanti Wars are of a different caliber... Ashantis regularly fielded armies of more than 10.000 fighters, mostly equipped with muskets. The British really struggled tremendously... Even the comparatively small Akuapem state was able to retain it's independence from the Ashanti, and during the Ga-Fanti War, even captured a British and a Dutch fortress, as well as Accra itself (the modern capital of Ghana). Those Akuapem dreams of grandeur only lasted a few years, but hey, it's something right? In North, West and East Africa the use of guns wasn't uncommon from the 18th century onwards. Other military mights of the West African region primarily included the Oyo Empire and the Kingdom of Benin, from Nigeria and the Kingdom of Dahomey (Togo). There were many others, but most crumbled from the inside out, due to European political and economic manoeuvring even before the final military push. The Ashanti were the most "intact" state to enter into all out war with European powers. In other places of Africa, the Mahdist armies of Sudan, the Dervish armies of Somalia, the Abyssinian armies of Ethiopia and the Kingdom of Kongo (Congo/Angola) were particularly virulent in their resistance to European colonization. Most people have heard of the Zulu, and the famous battle of Isandlwana, popularized by the movie Zulu Dawn, but know next to nothing of the other parts of Africa. Cetshwayo definitely gave the British a run for their money, so respects due, but they were small fish compared to the more potent powers of West and East Africa. The Zulu have become one of the archetypes of the "noble savage", and have been "used" to overshadow the much more impressive histories of the continent. Times are changing, but I'm still waiting for a movie featuring the Battle of Nsamankow, or the Battle of Katamanso, or the the Battle of Adwa, the battles for Kongo, the fall of Benin, the exploits of Samori Toure, the fall of Khartoum (it's been done, but bleh), etc, etc.. Anyway, some more traditional Akan warriors and stuff (maybe we can do a colonial wars mod one day, when guns are implemented): Traditional Akan architecture is also quite interesting and unique. It's essentially extinct today, and a only a handful of traditional temples remain Lol, indeed, my spiritual antennae People are so weird... I've had people grab my hair, and even grabbing my beard?! What the H e l l right? Takes some serious self control on my part not to escalate the situation, but I've had to tell people off quite forcefully... Some people think it's public property or something... I used to wear a turban sometimes, but I'm too lazy to wrap my hair everyday... And then I get even more stares... The hair is definitely not for show, so it stresses me out when people can't focus on anything but your hair, so I prefer to cover it. Turbans for the win!

Only when choosing to mix epochs... Looove it!

Or an actual Viking Shield Maiden !!! What do you think of the History Chanel show Vikings? Wow, I thought my hair was long... The longest locks are reaching my knees now... I always said I would trim it when they reach my butt, but I can't bring myself to put scissors to them. It feels so wrong. They do sometimes naturally break off halfway down when they get too long, so I guess it's sorting itself out, lol... Uhu, haven't cut my hair since age 13 (15 years). My dad is from Ghana, where I'm living now. He's actually still in Belgium, lol, but he comes back to Ghana every other year or so. We're Akuapem, one of the smaller Akan tribes (including Fantes, Akwamus, Akyims, Denkyera, etc, with the Ashanti being the most famous of all). The specific ethnicities or tribes that contributed to the modern mix of Akuapem people include primarily Guans and Akyims, but also Akwamu, Ga-Adangbe, Ewe and Ashanti (Ga-Adangbe and Ewe aren't even Akan tribes, but some of them migrated and assimilated into Akuapem over the centuries and the Guans are essentially the original pre-Akan population of the area, still speaking their own language in their own towns). A little bit of history: "Akuapem" means something along the lines of "A Thousand Forces" (Akuw Apem), and was originally actually a tribal confederacy of many disparate groups of people who were living in the Akuapem hills (many of them refugees from wars and slave-raiding). The "confederacy" was established to fight off slave-raiding incursions and oppression at the hands of the Akwamu, another Akan tribe with a ferocious reputation in the old days. The Akwamu (proto)-empire was utterly destroyed by the Akuapem uprising. Akuapems had a reputation of fighting slavery, harboring many runaway slaves from the nearby coast and destroying Danish plantations at the foot of the Akuapem hills because of their harshness. So I was surprised to learn that after the defeat of the Akwamu, In turn, the captured Akwamu leadership was sold into slavery (1730's) by the Akuapem... Karma is a... Very interestingly, Europeans in the Americas often didn't comprehend where exactly their slaves were coming from, or in this case, that they weren't slaves at all, but nobles, warriors, generals and chiefs! 150 of the Akwamu "slaves" that were shipped to St. John in the Caribbean very quickly ignited one of the earliest and longest lasting slave rebellions in the history of the Americas! They took over almost the entire island for a 6 month period before being "defeated by several hundred better-armed French and Swiss troops sent from Martinique". Quite perversely, the Akwamu didn't liberate the other African slaves, and captured the islands' plantations intact... They simply took over the plantations, slaves included, intending to run them as usual... Other Akan slaves that were taken to Jamaica also runaway and established independent communities in the interior. The British never managed to subdue them (Maroon wars) and eventually settled a treaty with them, recognising their independence. Similar story in Suriname. Very few among the maroons of Jamaica and Suriname can actually still speak Twi (Akan language)! I actually cried the first time I saw a video recording of an old Jamaican maroon speaking Twi. I was shocked! One of my uncles once travelled to Suriname and could speak Twi with some of the Maroons he met there! Other Akan "slaves" were taken to Haiti, and their martial culture helped facilitate the Haitian revolution, the most successful of the slave-rebellions, confidently defeating the Napoleonic armies! The Akan slaves were known as Coromantee (derived from the name of the Ghanaian slave fort of Kormantine in Koromanti), and garnered such a fierce reputation that attempts were made to pass legislation banning the import of Akan slaves: "Edward Long, an anti-Coromantee writer, states: Such a bill, if passed into law would have struck at very root of evil. No more Coromantins would have been brought to infest this country, but instead of their savage race, the island would have been supplied with Blacks of a more docile tractable disposition and better inclined to peace and agriculture." Makes me a little proud, to know that our compatriots were not docile, but rather "savage" in their resistance to enslavement My hair, and where I'm from (some cultural shots from our traditional festivals, a royal funeral and Ashanti military traditions):

Lol, in a real jungle, there is no place for a CC, or anything else... You wouldn't even see your units through the jungle cover Kakum National Park:

Ha, I also have "meters" of hair, but it's nothing like Rapunzel, lol... More like something in between Ziggy and Damian Marley I am an English and Dutch speaker. I can understand Afrikaans a little bit. It sounds like a thick accent, or a dialect of Dutch. But there are always a some mystery words making it difficult to understand the details. My mom is actually Belgian/German/Polish, with a bit of a "Nordic", actually Germanic, look (blond hair, blue eyes). I definitely don't have that Nordic/Germanic look though, lol! My sister and her Haitian fiancée (also West African and West European ancestry) have a one year old boy, with pretty African looking features and and a soft afro, but he's relatively light-skinned, his hair is blond and he has blue eyes, like my mom! Their next kid might be as dark as Shaka Zulu, who knows. When mixed people have kids together, they can go any direction. Genes are pretty cool...

Because the empire is known as the Maurya Empire, or the Maurya Dynasty, founded by Chandragupta Maurya. "Mauryan" is also often used as an adjective though.

We need details! What kind of farm? Any pictures? Maybe we should make this into a "farms around the world" topic

How interesting! What kind of cheese? From cows? You have cattle? Pictures of the fjords are always welcome! Maybe someday someone can make a nice specific Norse map based on your home area I'm not much of a farmer myself, but I have a very healthy respect for it, and fantasize about my own little dream farm one day I did grow a field of sweet peppers a while back. In the middle of the dry season, which was exceptionally harsh. That was a memorable experience... I just wanted to prove that it's possible to farm in the dry season, away from a source of water, on depleted soil, without pesticides, planting seeds directly in the field (without nursery). Lord knows it didn't make me rich, but it was fun! I also discovered that my garden is essentially an archaeological site, lol! Preparing my field, I started stumbling across significant amounts of pottery shards, which is strange, because our land used to be a bamboo-forrest in the jungle outside of town. Nobody has lived here in living memory but us. The pottery wasn't on the surface either, but buried between 10 and 30 cm in the ground! Pottery of the type that hasn't been produced or used here for a very long time. I always suspected there were some ancestors here on account of iron slag spread across the back of our garden. I actually found remains of ceramic pipes coated in molten rock with a metallic shine (part of the bellows?), and finally, at a depth of more than 30 cm I found a heavily corroded iron blade. Also found a corroded iron axe-head. Some of the iron slag actually has square marks (from tongs used to move the hot slag out of the way?).

We agree Well, yeah, ideally, I'd loooove that... But I don't know how feasible it is from a coding/art point of view... A lot of fields have "arbitrary" shapes (hugging the curves of the land), sure, but even those are mostly longer on one side. My point is, if you're ploughing the land, you're gonna make a long field, not a square one. Second point is that if rectangular is supposedly as arbitrary as square, then why did we end up with square? There is this other game called Age of Empires and a bunch of people think 0AD a clone of it (it isn't, I know). If the shape is arbitrary anyway, isn't it a no-brainer to choose the shape that is different from that other RTS-heavyweight everyone compares us to? You know, just to not rub it in how similar they look on the surface? Euhm.. Personally I'm not a fan of removing structures from an already limited list, at all.. Also, what happens to all the techs? They also go to the CC? Training traders at the CC? Removing the market places makes for an even staler economic gameplay... Also, what you're saying definitely doesn't apply universally, and even where it does, there were still "regular" marketplaces in smaller towns. Also, because commerce was conducted near the administrative centers, doesn't mean that the marketplace and the administrative buildings were literally synonymous with each-other. Some of 0AD's market places (like those of the Kushites) don't really represent a single structure, but a gathering of traders, which is what a market essentially is. A place where traders gather, and they gather at many other places than agoras.

Also, farms should really be rectangular, like the great majority of farmlands in the real world. Like 50% larger on one side. They'd look a lot more natural, and the increased size will make them a little awkward to place in the middle of town. About the shape of the field: when ploughing a field, you ideally want to plough as long as you can in one direction. Ploughing is incredibly hard (even when using draft animals), and "an object in motion tends to remain in motion along a straight line unless acted upon by an external force", which means every turn requires a lot of energy, which in turn means that ploughing a longer, rectangular field is a lot less intensive than ploughing a square field of the same surface area, which would require a lot more turns. Third MAJOR advantage of rectangular field, is that it's a quick, easy and obvious visual distinguishing feature from Age of Empires' square fields. The square fields thing is such a weird yet iconic AoE -thing that it contributes to the image of 0AD being an AoE clone. This small visual distinction can have a big subconscious influence on how the game is perceived (more independent form AoE, not scared to do things differently/more realistic/better).

There can be a no-build zone right on the edge of the map, just wide enough to let units and siege pass. Then building a wall (or a wall of houses) won't be able to hug the edge. You'd have to build all the way around. Secondly, houses should be really weak, so house-walling isn't effective, and raiding can more effectively include destroying enemy houses to suppress their pop-cap. Thirdly, building a marketplace close to farmlands and a bunch of houses is still far more logical than building markets in the middle of nowhere...

Have you ever been to a farm? Or have you ever been to the center of any town or city anywhere in the world? lol, sorry... I just really hope that 0AD can breath new life into the RTS genre by getting rid of those stale 90's conventions, instead of dogmatically adhering to them. It's time for some new and revamped formulas. Not the same old, same old logical fallacies. 0AD can and should be much more than just glorified nostalgia (I know it already is, but we can do better, even with minor changes here and there). Triggers me every time... Farms belong on the outskirts while markets belong in the center! How does this not upset you? lol...

I like the direction of this discussion Or discarded completely? It would be nice if factions are diversified by historical merit, instead of this arbitrary stuff like Iberian starting walls or free houses for Ptolemies, which is very unhistorical, weird and feels like a cheap attempt at "diversifying". Ptolemies could have all sorts of bonuses ranging from higher pop-cap, higher income from mines, higher agricultural output, higher income from trade, more specific mercenaries, etc, all historically based. But free houses that take longer to build? Nah.. Cheap houses that take less time to build, maybe... Same for Iberians... just give them cheaper walls if you must, but I don't even really see the logic in that. Iberians could have higher income from loot, and coral benefits, on account of the cattle rustling and raiding (hoping that cattle becomes a thing in the near future). Anyway, yes to moving mines further It has bugged me for years as it also messes with your town planning (who would allow mining in the town center anyway?). It's so claustrophobic.. Turtling should be viable, but it can also be simultaneously nerfed by placing resources further away, and preventing farming in the immediate vicinity of the CC. This would allow you to effectively wall a built up area, but if you're being sieged, you'd eventually "starve" because you don't have access to resources. Right now you can farm while under attack as if nothing's going on and the starting resources usually last long enough to have a mini-trade route set up within you're walled area. Which is silly. Stronger, more expensive walls seems to be the way to go. They become more useful (with gates being the weak spots), but become less viable to spamming because of increased cost. Another thing I've been meaning to bring up in regard to trade and how the current mechanics could be improved: Currently markets generate the highest revenue if you place them furthest appart. Ok, seems reasonable, right? Not really... It results in people placing markets on the edge of their territory, away from their settlement. So now we have a situation, were people are farming in the town center, and building markets in the middle of nowhere. It should be the other way around. How? Simple: 1) A hard exclusion zone around the CC, which forces farms towards the outskirts of your territory 2) Profitability of markets is determined by 2 factors: relative distance to each other (like now) AND, how many houses are within it's radius. 1 - 10 houses represent respectively 10 - 100% market profitability. So the amount of resources a trader caries is determined by the market they're coming from (how many people "live there" and how far away is it) Bonus side-effect: people actually build up relatively concentrated satellite settlements (for increased income) with natural looking farmlands on their outskirt, as opposed to the classically awkward low density RTS-sprawl all over the map.

@Nescio, I think you're probably right about all that, but in terms of modern parallels the Pax Americana is definitely a thing, and is more often than not viewed with extreme cynicism (American Imperialism), and is related to Neo-colonialsm, which is in itself a very real thing as well, with most African resources remaining very much in the possession of foreign actors (corporations) from Britain/France/USA/China, and to a lesser extent Russia/India/Gulf countries/Iran/Turkey/Italy/Germany/Brazil, while at the same time systematically undermining the sovereignty of national systems, removing, installing, supporting, assassinating whatever political force they see fit.. And this isn't limited to Africa either. The American example you give is an excellent showcase: "United States Armed Forces are about 0.4% of the US population, probably 0.5% of its adult citizens". Might be true, but you're forgetting that America fights wars by proxy. So in Afghanistan and Iraq, for example, you'll see very few actual Americans still there, but there are tons of mercenaries from all over the world (particularly liberian ex-child soldiers, funilly/not funny enough). The numbers of these mercenary forces are so great that nobody actually has exact figures. In addition you will see that the "national" armies are trained and equipped in the "American style", and fight for "American backed" regimes. The primary purpose of both the mercenary forces as well as the "national" armies is to protect foreign (read Western/American) economic interests (like pipelines). They have little to nothing to do with national defense. Again, this isn't limited to Iraq and Afghanistan, but follows a recurring international pattern. National sovereignty is often nothing more than make-believe. The point being that the ratio of American forces might be small compared to it's national population, but the total population of the geographic regions effectively controlled by America, either directly or indirectly further reduces both the ratio of "American" forces to this total population, as well as total ratio of "native" American" (no pun intended) forces to all the forces trained and financed by the USA. Ooof... All of that is totally off-topic of course, and somewhat controversial, but what's life without a little bit of controversy eh? Lol.. Anyway, female clergy, specialized in healing. Male clergy used to boost moral (when implemented of course). Good? Nay? We get some more realistic and specifically female representation. Win/win?

Maybe you misunderstood. I mean that every civ that had female priestesses or women in other clerical roles could have a female unit recruited at the temple that would specialize in healing. Male priests would remain the same for all civs, except they could be used to boost moral in the future instead, for example. Just a thought. Would be nice imo... In 480 BC (ten years later, population about the same) Athens had c. 200 triremes at Salamis. Each trireme required a crew of 200 (3×60 rowers and 20 hoplites), which means about 40,000 (the entire citizen population, 40% of all adult males) participated in the war. I was talking about the ratio of fighters to the total population of the so called "Athenian Empire", not just Attica, but you're right about this: My bad, But the total population of the Athenian colonies and vassals just further decreases the ratio of combatant to non-combatant. That was my point. Citizens oversea naturally remain citizens, but they were ruling over territories with much larger populations that weren't citizens. Athenians didn't just rule Attica, but of course you knew that

Ooooh, how could I forget this.... FEMALE PRIESTS! Women with clerical roles were a thing across the pre-Christian world... Maybe we could have two types of priests, giving female versions a healing bonus or something, and male priests, I don't know, something else... Would inceltivize sending a few women with a healing touch along with the army (not necessarily unhistorical). Correct! And those are just the citizens! The total population of Attica was even larger, and the total population of Athenian possessions even more so! Actual fighters were probably less than 1/10 of the men (even during war). Warrior tribes, where all the men are fighters are just unnecessary Hollywoodisms.

Just to chime in, 0AD is indeed not trying to be sexist or anything, but... Most of the civilizations portrayed were essentially sexist (explicitly patriarchal, with strong and rigid gender-roles). They were also mostly genocidal bigots... The ancient world was a little rough on the edges... Most of the ancient armies were close to 100% male, so in a game of historical warfare, it's relatively normal to have such an overrepresentation of men. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be cool to have more female representation, but as a game that strives for historical accuracy, women in military roles need to be well researched. As mentioned, the Mauryas have Maiden Guards, the Britons have Boudica, the Kushites have Amanirenas. In the mod Millennium AD, the Norse have shield maidens. I'm personally excited about a Scythian civ, as are others. Scythians would have plenty of female fighters (up to 1/3 of their forces), and lets not forget Queen Tomyris. It's a very civ-specific question... I believe Thracians might have had some female warriors, but I'd have to read up more on it. That having said, Celtic women were definitely more engaged in military affairs than Roman or Greek women for example... Having Briton/Gallic women being able to build military structures doesn't actually sound totally terrible to me... It's an interesting idea for a civ-specific bonus. Questions in ethics are always good to ponder on, but are a little awkward in a game where you're tasked with wiping out all that oppose your domination of the map. You can realistically kill up to several thousand people in a match, putting games like GTA to shame... On a personal note I would actually like to see male and females combined in an economic villager unit without specific gender-roles.

Didn't know this is being worked on. Cool! So would it apply to melee archers as well (drawing a dagger)?

I understand that balancing is a delicate issue, but rams should obviously be noticeably slower than the slowest infantry unit. The heavy ram is pushed forward by people, it's not outfitted with a combustion engine or anything. By definition it is slower. Just think about it for a minute... How can people pushing a heavy device outrun infantry? That one unit of speed difference isn't noticeable by the way, it results in a disorrientated mass of infantry chasing the ram from behind, rather than flanking it or immobilising it by running in front of it. You often can't effectively order your infantry to "intercept" them. Secondly, it's really cool that swords are specialized at taking out rams, no problem, but it is highly unrealistic and unintuitive that spears perform so poorly against them. Again, think about it for a minute... You'd expect spears (with all that extra reach) to be quite effective at killing the dudes operating the ram. I haven't played alpha 23 MP, to be honest, but I played more than a few MP-games in alpha 22 and people were definitely complaining about rams. Mostly during the game, and I've also seen people bring it up after games in the lobby as well... Also, how are rams even capable of killing horses? You can even effectively use rams against ranged infantry if the opponent isn't paying close enough attention. That's just weird... In short, rams are too fast, and spears should be somewhat effective at taking them out as well. It has been brought up many times before. Rams should also have a bonus against gates. If not those things, at least make it slower at dealing damage... A siege should feel like a siege, not a steamroll... First you kill/clear the enemy army, then you send in the siege-equipment. But how in the world can you send siege-equipment through an enemy army?? Anybody that does that deserves to loose their equipment. Currently they are rewarded, however, especially if they advance with rams. Sure, it's a good practice to take advice from the best pro-players, BUT, I always get the very strong feeling that many people here are forgetting the masses of single players (more than 90% of the player-base), and everyone that isn't a pro-player (99.9%). Obsessive compulsive micromanagement of units, a strong focus on APM and a good command of shortcuts, as well as making the most effective use of obscure/under-advertized mechanics isn't what most players enjoy or expect from a Real Time Strategy game. You expect that from MOBA-games like League of Legends. When playing a historical RTS like 0AD, a certain level of intuition is to be expected.. You'd expect melee units to be good against rams. I also think you can easily alienate new players by always dismissing these kind of concerns/suggestions when they come up repeatedly like this. It almost feels like calling them ignorant for not understanding things that can not be understood without asking specific players, which is unintuitive and offsetting. The vast majority of people aren't crunching numbers when they compose their army. Explaining fiddly numbers about hack, pierce and crush damage really isn't a satisfying explanation as to why you lost a game. If you want to ignore, disagree or dismiss the above, that's totally fine (no hard feelings), but at least agree that there need to be clear and unambiguous in-game tooltips explaining each of the most obscure/influential mechanics. Lower the threshold for players to understanding what they are doing wrong. When recruiting rams, it should clearly say what they are good against, and what they are vulnerable to. When recruiting swordsmen, it should clearly say that they are specialized at taking out siege-equipment.