borg-

I agree with you here, I think technology can make this clear for the player.

If we keep him as he is now and just move to p1, then his own cost is a natural limiting factor, nothing needs to change in my opinion. You have the cost of syssitia + unit, is quite expensive for a phase 1. Yes, I think mobility technology will be very welcome.

Well what do we have for now: - Spartiates are trained in phase 1. The suggestion of being free but very slow to train or a limit max of units is interesting - Spartiates has upgraded to royal guard, costing a lot of metal/food, but gaining a good amount of health and attack. Max of 10 / 20 units - Sissítia phase 1 - Gerusia returns to the game in phase 1 - Helot skimisher has less attack than other skirmishers in the game, but a technology available in gerusia (krypteia) allows helots to harvest grains much faster - New movement speed technology for champion infantry - Each Spartan hero will be able to train an administrative hero or if possible with the current codes, train both at the same time - Sparta abre train helots slingers. Less attack than other slingers in the game, krypteia affects slingers too - Each barracks built gets two hoplites - Change team bonus. Allies gain an amount of gold per second and territorial gain.

Yes pls.

It would be really fun for every hero to recruit their administrative king. Administrative kings would have economy aura while combat kings would have combat aura. For this though we need some additional modelds. Maybe in the short time the idea of being able to train two heroes at the same time is more interesting.

I really liked this idea, although I think the territory gain is too high. Something I put in the borg expansion pack. There was a very simple and small edit of code for this. I don't know if we can do that at the moment, either way it's a nice change. reat idea, although I don't know if it's possible with the current code, but it also shouldn't be something complex and big to do Change your cost too? Spartans didn't produce siege? Which civ did they buy from? We definitely need an aura for this champion. I like this idea, although I don't find the limit interesting.

I'm not "hibiki_"

I thought of some solution like being able to increase the limit of wonder to 2, or else being able to build cc in phase 1 after researched, or increase the limit of ice house or apadama, but I don't think that's possible at the moment.

Sparta has gerousia and persian stoa as currently unused buildings. We could use it with some historical context.

I think the topic: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/82176-differentiating-civilizations-persian/ was a success so i will continue to sparta civilization. Well I'd like to start with a few small ideas. It seems to me that the Sparta civilization should be focused on its infantry and especially on its champions, which are rarely used. - Sissitia moved to phase 1; - Sissitia range aura of gathering rate on farms for citizens infantry skimishers near. Gathers like a woman, but her attack is reduced a little. - Champions spearman can be trained on phase 1; - Champion spearman can up to rank 2 (olympic champion). Current hoplite tradition also affects champions. - New movement speed technology for champion infantry; Well this is one of the ideas that i have at the moment, i will research more about sparta culture. I would like to hear everyone's ideas and opinion.

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4724 I think that's enough for now. The intention is just to start differentiating in all civilizations, so that it can be deepened in the next patches.

The idea I have for sparabara is that he has an aura that increases the pierce resistance of archers, but I don't know how useful this is in a real game, I don't think it would work very well. The other idea that I think is more plausible playing, is that he has a pierce armor of 7 and hack of 3. It should be a unit resistant to ranged but weak in melee combat.

Dont need anything wrong to suggest ideas and changes. Anyway you can lost 40 - 50 soldier reparing onde ship vs então ship, so It can be wrong for some players.

I agree @AIEND Idea.

In aoe4 we have brit villagers attacking with bows, and it is fun to me. I choice brit some time just cuz power of defensive vs agressive civs like mongols.

How about normal woman and scythian version, cost 60 food and have a bow. This way we have a choice between eco and better defense.

True tnx, but I can cite others like Apranik. I'm looking for information, and although Amazons are part of Greek mythology, there were Amazon women in Persian where they rode horses and participated in hunting. Well, I know it's hunting, but if they had the ability to use a larger bow and arrow than other women at the time, then I think this differentiation is not wrong. Anyway, I'd like the experts' opinion.

I could be wrong, but some Persian women even led armies at that time. Pantea, commander of the Immortal Guard of Cyrus the Great, Artemisia of Helicarnassus, commander in chief of the Persian navy etc..

It is because we are talking about a differentiation of one unity and one civilization (persian). It's obvious that an archer can use a sword, a spearman can use an axe, but we can't have all that realism in the game. Anyway, let's wait for the experts on this case.

We have any expert in persian civ to be able to clear this doubt for us?

To defend in small conflicts but not against enemy armies, so it doesn't make sense to be used against soldiers either. If necessary, to defend oneself against an aggressor is worth any weapon in hand. Just because we don't have a Persian army of women doesn't mean they never used a sword, spear or bow and arrow to defend themselves. This is the same as saying that Persian women cannot ride horses because we have no army of Persian women on horseback. If Persian education provided for horseback riding and learning archery, then isn't that enough for this little game change?

Well, if you follow this logic, the dagger only serves to kill animals and not fight. Civilians in theory shouldn't fight, but they do, so the weapon they use doesn't matter as long as it has a historical background, and the Persians apparently do.

Herodotus, in his account written in the 5th century BC. of the Persians who inhabited Pontus, reports that young Persians, between the ages of five and twenty, learned three things: "to ride a horse, to shoot with a bow and arrow, and to speak the truth."[65] Well, it doesn't specify if they were men and/or women.

I think it needs additional code, it's not our focus at the moment.

Remove metal loot for crossbowman since dont cost metal. Add crossbow training tech to stable too.