Phalanx

Amen! I should be doing homework right now!

I was just worrying about it getting flanked by wrapping infantry, but if you guys think it's fine, that's good enough for me! Thanks y'all!

/me kneels down and hails LordGood as the patron god of 3d modeling Oh my god!! These look amazing!!! When will these be put on SVN? I can't wait to use them!!! Let the city building commence!!!!

Was that a hint to a release date?

Well, true. We are both right. The hellenistic armies had a larger front because of more troops, but the phalanx did fight by pushing, relying on the back lines. I was bringing it up ingame as a possible issue to think about. I personally think (and that's just me) that pikes should have some advantage over spears against infantry, otherwise they are useless ingame. Are there any ideas on how to fix that? Does anybody know the price different between pikes and spears?

Formation bonuses aren't implemented yet. Neither is attack in formation. I understand this, but pikes will still be second rate even once these features come out for one big reason. The Successors can use spears for a better unit. Thureos Spears for the Seleucids and Ptolemaics and Hypaspists for the Macedonians are a better choice than all those factions' pikes because in phalanx, they present a larger combat front. They way a phalanx formation is filled out, is that it is wider left to right than it is front to back, while the Syntagma is relatively square. Meaning, it takes WAY more pikes to make a spear wall that is the same size as a WAY fewer number of spears. This means that because both formations are formidable from the front, once should just go with spears, because it'll be harder for units to flank, and to create a decent size spear wall with the Syntagma is way to costly because of the number of pikes required. Technically, the Syntagma should be wider from left to right, and the Phalanx should be filled deeper. Historically, the Syntagma was wielded by presenting the largest possible front of sarrissas, and letting the enemy basically impale themselves on the pikes, with a little bit of stabbing. The Phalanx on the other hand, was all about pushing. Once two phalanxes collided, the rear lines would push against the lines in front of them, making it basically, a contest of bulldozers. So technically, the Phalanx formation should be filled they way the Syntagma is now, and vice versa.

I had a kinda genius idea.....: So, it's no suprise right now, that choosing the reform army over the traditional army is a no brainer. The Thorakite Argyraspide is obviously better than its Phalangite equivelant. But.... Why don't we have a similar system to the Macedonians? Where the base champs are the Phalangites Argyrapides, then a "Seleucid Reforms" or "Roman Reforms" tech turns them into Thorakites Argysrapides, like the Seleuicd's plans at the time when they fell. Obviously, the entire Argyraspides corps wasn't changed, but that's because they didn't have time. But it would make Seleucid players feel less pressed when choosing an army. P.S. On an unrelated note, Seleucius probably needs a new model, as he is identical to...I think Hanabal.... one of the Carthaginian heroes.

Hey, I'm trying to install the SVN version. (So I can play Delenda Est) I've installed Tortoise, I've created a file, I right click on it, and there is no SVN option. EDIT: Never mind! I forgot to restart! It's all good now!

I'm thinking that once formations are added, the Successors will become more powerful. But yeah..... The Seleucid and Ptolemiacs are definately slow to get started. Seleucids more so. The Ptolemies can get to age two, and just use a bunch of pikes, 10 archers and 10 slingers and have a decent output, but yes, they are RIDICULOUSLY slow.

Oohh! Something else. Maybe we could make forests walk through-able. But units are pulled out of formation and are slowed, maybe even certain unit types are invisible to enemies when in forests. And this might also help the pathfinder, which does get hung up on individual trees, not to mention forests.

An awesome idea: A Training area. For each faction, it would look basically the same. six, person sized wooden poles. When citizen-soldiers are tasked on it (6 max) they run through combat animations against the pole. They very slowly gain xp (a lot slower than in actual combat). This is balanced, because it's a choice that the player has to make to set those potential resources gatherers aside for potential defence, because we all know that the higher in xp, the worse at collecting. So the player can potentially sacrifice econ for a better military. I think this would be an amazing, and I believe quite easy (even for the Art. If someone else could texture it, I could make it.)

Just a small note, the Thuroes skirmisher has a pelta, not a thureos.

Yeah... Without formations this was a mute point, but it was 30 vs 30

1. I was looking for games where I could play as the Seleucids 2. I LOVE the time period. I wan't a big fan of AoE 1 because it doesn't look amazing now, and the controls are stiff, but this game is amazing. I'm a nerd all around about this time period, and the level of nerd in the game is AMAZING. 3. Ummm.... Really, a balancing dev team/advisory group. I know that the beta is kinda far-ish down the road, and the devs are still trying to get the game to function, but I think now would be a good time to start getting a list of balancing options and changes, so when the beta does roll out, we have a list right off the bat. And, personally, I'd love to be on the team. Game balance analyzation is like a mini-hobby of mine. 4. Well. I love this game, and I really want to help it come to fruition, and be one of those "hidden gems" of gaming. 5. 18 male Indiana, United States of America

So.....I pitted Seleucid SS against Macedonian Hypapists with the SS upgrade...... And the Macedonians won...... What!?! Just for future note, which do you guys think would win realistically? Macedonian Hoplite SS, Seleucid Pike SS.

Awesomesauce!!

Well the more pressing problem is what to do with spear cav. Even companions get mowed down instantly, and for factions like Rome and the Seleucids, where cavalry was a major part of their army (maybe not the largest part of their army, but they relied heavily on it) spears need to be able to last longer. Possibly more armour like what was suggested above. I mean, at least for the Seleucids, it was the reason they won the few battles that they won. I believe a battle that Antiochus the III fought was widely regarded as a treatise on how to use cav, and was studied by nations for years until cav came out of favor. But yeah, either a charge bonus (which would be nice for all unit types) or increased armour would be nice.

Seleucid roster includes Thracian falxmen already. Great unit (though their animation needs to be teaked a tad....)

Well, obviously the Bronze shields and both two Silver Shield variants need to be there, but besides those, we're gonna need mercs, because realistically, the Seleucid battle roster was a lot like Macedon's. The most reliable Seleucid infantry auxiliaries were Galatian and Thracian mercs Cav: possible reskin for Median cav, so they arent identical to the Persian cav. They had light lancers/jav cav outfitted and who fought in the Tarantine style. There were the companions, Greeks who were picked, and the Aegma, usually Medes who were picked. Eventually, the companions armour was reduced a tad, and the Aegma werd armoured closer to cataphracts. They also used Dahea horse archers.

This is an actual question; why do the spartans have pikes? Shouldn't it be the Athenians, because Iphacrate's reforms are considered by some to be the birth of the pikeman...

The Chalkaspides have a different helm type, I'm sure of that. The Argyraspides look like the Pheztarios (Foot Companions) but realistically they did, just silver..... EDIT: the Chalkaspides have the helm you see in the pics above, and the Argyraspides have the stereotypical bearded Macedonian helm.... I believe thats accurate, but I'm not sure.

Maybe, but in that case, maybe lessen the loss speed a bit?

Do we have a list of all of the bonuses?

It makes sense.

I introduced a French friend to 0 A.D. he was playing the Romans, and I noticed that when one places the military camp not in one's territory (like it's supposed to be used) you loose it to Gaia basically instantly. I think that watchtowers and military camps should be immune to territory, to maintain their functionality.