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but do they have to be twice as fast? wouldnt 1.5× or even 1.3× as fast be fast enough? I feel like this would be an unnecessary "unification" of playstyles across different civs. A civ with good defensive options could (if walls, forts, towers werent so bad) secure their eco without needing to keep troops at home and force the enemy cav to take a fight by attacking the enemy base. Then the cav die to normal spearman and no "quick" counter unit is necessary.

As you can see from this thread, a consensus will never happen as for the solutions @real_tabasco_sauce makes the all the balancing PRs that get approved by the team atm. So rly it's almost about convincing him. With current production stats (cost, prod time..) more durable units actually makes the game feel more spamy. This because there are much more situation where both sides can sustain sending troops on the front-line, replacing dying units by new one for a long while. Since melee re-balance, this happens more rarely, as battles tend to play out slightly faster. I'll maintain that it did have a positive impact on the gameplay, also because it put less importance on sniping making other things matter more.

don't know why you'd say that. Compared to last year, the model has improved and also apparently acquired some understandment of the game, but still the strict majority of the recommendations given in that answer are trash.

Speed. I think all cav could use a nerf. Setting their speed an about equal to fanatics seems about right with melee cav being slightly faster and range cav being the same as fana (also, would make fana a better counter, which I think it needs to be) also, what exactly is the 3x counter? (Just want to make sure everyone is on same page) kind of related, but melee inf should get a speed boost too. But that’s more of a range vs melee balancing issue.

Ranged cavalry are already within that range (x1.3-x1.6 of inf equivalent) melee cavalry have more and I feel it is smart gameplay-wise as melee cav intuitively can be used to: engage backlines be able to counter ranged cavs raid with comparable effectiveness as skirmisher cavs. All 3 scenarios require melee cavalry to have this additional speed.

I’ve left it alone so far. Or are you saying it should be lowered? everyone chill out, these aren’t final! I’m setting up some stuff in the community mod. If we spend some time testing seriously, we can figure out what works and what doesn’t.

I like this strategical discussion. It's important to clarify what "we" want before you/we do any changes. Regarding this, my opinion is that more durable and fewer units on the battlefield what makes good RTS. More micro abilities not just Attack move and few target-fire clicks... It seems 0AD is too spamy now.

I believe the best way to balance cavalry is to eliminate the "blending in" or stacking of units on top of each other. In other words, make the unit collision work as it should. This would make it impossible to have a 30 spear cavalry death ball in just one tile. It will also nerf the range advantage that some champion spear cavalry currently has.

I prefer this. We make cav because we want speed. Otherwise, who would do cav when inf is cheaper and more useful as workers? Definitely not. Units die too fast now and we just see people getting vapourised. 2v1 or bad fight = instant death -> more demanding on good ally and pocket -> less tolerance and more toxicity -> more DoctorOrgans behaviour + exclusion of newer players @real_tabasco_sauce please reconsider the bonus on spear cav against other cavs. The issue is, most civs don't have spear cav. So as soon as someone makes a dozen spear cav, these civs Gaul, Brits, Athen, Maury, Sele are banned from using cav (unless they spam spear champs in P3). Is this what we want? Suggestion: due to the special nature of spear cav, we should give every civ a counter unit, e.g. fanatic, or just give every civ a spear cav option.

Basically I think what would be nice is to have cavs used for their mobility, and not a unit that will always be the best suited in all situations as main core troop. To keep melee cav skirmishing still possible they need to have mobility, but being less effective then infantry to fight as front-lines. Restoring x2 spear cav vs cav would also make them a good choice when needing to counter ranged cavs. Strong counters is a easy way to make units more balanced overall because one player can... counter... any unit "abused" by it's opponent.

UPDATE: Version 0.8.2 - The price update interval on the Market was increased from 7 to 10 seconds. - Barter has 10 times less influence on the change of prices for resources. Thus, reverse barter deals aimed at raising or lowering prices will be unprofitable for the player. At the same time, players have the opportunity to: 1. make highly efficient barters during price jumps. 2. barter resources on roughly equal terms with other players. Examples of prices at the start of 2 games

Sounds good. I'm a little worried the 3x counter will be too much against CS cav. But we will see and adjust, if necessary.

Trying to make the maiden guard units for maury more interesting: archer: 100 wood, 90 metal 1.75 sec fire rate 90 hp, higher pierce armor, lower hack armor faster move speed and accel less range less attack prepare time swordswoman: 100 food, 90 metal lower hp less pierce armor higher hack armor faster move speed and accel https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod/pulls/70 1546905375_ScreenRecording2025-06-15171601.mp4

3x spearmen/pikemen against cav. @chrstgtr @Arup I agree with you both on speed. Im doing the cav counter (2.5x to 3x) since it was widely requested earlier, but I’d like to experiment with some speed balance in the future.

Need a strategy? Just ask ChatGPT and it'll do a (half) decent job. I asked it to generate an effective strategy guide for Romans and this is what I got (minus a bunch of emojis): Here's an **effective strategy guide** for playing the **Romans** in *0 A.D.* (vanilla), focused on beginner to intermediate players but with advanced tactics sprinkled in. The Romans are a **late-game powerhouse**, so this guide will help you survive the early game, snowball in the mid-game, and dominate in the late game with elite troops and siege. --- # **Roman Republic Strategy Guide – 0 A.D.** ## Phase 1: Early Game (Village Phase) ### Objectives: * Build a strong economy * Advance quickly to Town Phase * Start teching for infantry and military upgrades ### Build Order (Start with 3 women on houses): 1. **Train more women** (fastest gatherers for food) 2. Send: * 3 women to berries * 3 men to wood * 2 men to build a house → then wood 3. Build a **Farmstead** near berries for gathering bonus 4. Build a **Field** early (once berries are low) 5. Build a **Barracks** and **Blacksmith** when wood allows **Tips:** * Use your **Scout** to explore the map and find huntables/mines * Romans can tech efficiently — prioritize economic techs in the Farmstead and Blacksmith * Transition to **farms + mining** early --- ## Phase 2: Mid Game (Town Phase) ### Objectives: * Expand economy with more women and resource diversity * Tech up to stronger units (Principes, Triarii) * Begin training military and expanding territory ### What to Do: * Build a **Market** (for trade + resource balancing) * Train **Velites** for early defense or harassment * Start mining **metal** and **stone** for upgrades and siege later * Research: * **Military upgrades** in Barracks and Blacksmith * **Economic techs** (farming, mining, building speed) ### Army Composition: Start forming a small army: * 10 Velites (javelin throwers) * 10 Hastati or Principes (anti-infantry) * 5 Triarii (anti-cavalry) **Tip:** The Romans don’t dominate in cavalry — **protect your flanks** with Triarii and use **infantry and siege** as your main tools. --- ## Phase 3: Late Game (City Phase) ### Objectives: * Dominate with elite infantry (Legionaries), siege, and fortifications * Crush enemies with Roman discipline and siege power ### Infrastructure: * Build **Fortresses** for unit production and map control * Build a **Siege Workshop** to produce: * **Ballistae** (anti-tower) * **Battering Rams** or **Scorpions** * Use **Temples** to heal your units and heroes * Train **Heroes** like **Scipio Africanus** for strong military buffs ### Final Army Composition: * 20 Legionaries (heavily armored swordsmen) * 10 Triarii * 10 Velites or archers (depending on opponent) * 3 Ballistae * 2 Rams or Scorpions * 1 Hero **Tip:** Don’t forget **armor upgrades** from the Blacksmith – your Roman troops shine with high defense and morale. --- ## Tactics & Combat Tips * **Roman armies are slow but tough**: March them as a solid formation, backed by siege. * **Use Legionaries to soak damage**, while siege units break buildings. * **Push with Fortresses** in forward positions to secure map control. * **Zone control**: Romans are great at holding chokepoints and fortifying map areas. * **Attack timing**: Don’t rush. Once your Legionaries and siege are ready, hit hard. --- ## Pro Tips & Advanced Strategy 1. **Territory Push**: Use Civic Centers + Fortresses to “creep” across the map. Control mines and choke points. 2. **Countering Cav-heavy civs**: Triarii are cost-effective and deadly to cavalry. 3. **Booming Option**: Romans can also go economic heavy and delay military with strong late-game payoffs. 4. **Tech Advantage**: Use Blacksmith and Market wisely — Rome benefits from being tech-rich. --- ## Common Mistakes to Avoid * **Neglecting economy early** – Romans need a solid eco base to get to their power spike. * **Overusing cavalry** – Roman cavalry is okay but not elite. Infantry and siege are your strength. * **Ignoring siege units** – Don’t try to brute force walls with infantry; use ballistae and rams. --- ## Optional: Mod Tips (Delenda Est) If you're using the *Delenda Est* mod, Romans become even more historically detailed with **Marian Reforms**, **Cohorts**, and new tech trees. You'll get even deeper control of the army evolution from Republican manipular lines to professional Legions. --- Pretty neat, huh?