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StopKillingMe

GamePlay Balance Discussion

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6 minutes ago, theotherhiveking said:

 

  1. It causes the 'projectile hitting armor' sound to play too frequently. You know what exactly what sound I'm talking about, you're probably hearing it in your mind now.

Click clickclickclickklikkclikccklickliclikcikliclick

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That's because we have no sound mixing, all sounds are played blindly...

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4 minutes ago, Stan` said:

That's because we have no sound mixing, all sounds are played blindly...

we have to admit that the current combat sounds are monotonous and boring, and lack a sound quality that gives them a different (musical) note, which is what experts in these very Hollywood style themes do.

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7 hours ago, Stan` said:

That's because we have no sound mixing, all sounds are played blindly...

I think there needs to be a different set of sounds for an arrow miss as opposed to an arrow strike. So, an arrow hitting the ground shouldn't sound like an arrow hitting a soldier. 

 

Also, the "Fwop" sound for all projectiles sounds super cartoony. Just some observations.

Edited by wowgetoffyourcellphone
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7 hours ago, thankforpie said:

theres one annoying sound in 0ad thats way too loud but i forgot what caused it

bad recording, bad edition.

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15 hours ago, thankforpie said:

theres one annoying sound in 0ad thats way too loud but i forgot what caused it

Lion?

Edited by coworotel
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4 hours ago, theotherhiveking said:

Borg's overhaul 1.0.5 reverting the basket changes confirmed?

??

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2 minutes ago, borg- said:

??

Guess I was overly cryptic.

Borg's overhaul reduces wicker baskets' research time from 40s to 30s, reduces the wood cost by 20 and decreases the speed bonus from 50% to 30%. Those changes suggest you also felt it was not worth getting early. So I was surprised you changed your mind.

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25 minutes ago, theotherhiveking said:

Guess I was overly cryptic.

Borg's overhaul reduces wicker baskets' research time from 40s to 30s, reduces the wood cost by 20 and decreases the speed bonus from 50% to 30%. Those changes suggest you also felt it was not worth getting early. So I was surprised you changed your mind.

I have a mod with many changes and I need everything to adapt to these changes. This does not apply to vanilla, are different gameplay (mainly at the start). Balancing a game does not simply change values and it's all right, you need to make every change looking at the past changes and also at the global level of the game. To create a new tech for example, is very easy but must be careful with several things, aura heroe, aura units, bonus global (faction), bonus per civ, bonus per unit, others techs, etc..

About 30secs, in the mod all technologies related to the economy are 30secs, army techs 40secs. Only cc techonologies and special techs the rule does not apply.

Edited by borg-
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I guess I don't get it anymore - first you say that wicker baskets are fine, then it turns out you changed them in your mod.

I believe what the rest of us want, is some kind of balance patch or change to balance in the next Alpha release, and we would like to understand what is being changed, specifically, as in a list of what is changed and why.  This is what competitive players need.  A statement of "I balanced techs" isn't enough information, we need to to know what techs were changed and why.  The main reason we need this information is in case the patch gets it wrong, we know what has been changed and what we can do to balance things in the next patch.

An example would be:

Wicker Basket tech research time reduced from 40s to 30s,  this makes researching wicker basket with only one berry patch worthwhile

Attack speed of all slingers reduced by 30%, this should make it easier to counter early age slinger attacks

Pop bonus for Celts barracks reduced from 4 to 3, this should make it harder for Celts to attack early

 

Things like that - we need to enumerate the things that are being changed, and roll that up into a single balance changes document.  Even if ultimately some decision is made to include a Borg mod into the next Alpha, I think it is more than fair that the player community should get to know what balances changes were made, and why - as in specifically what was changed and what is the reason and the desired outcome.  

 

Edited by StopKillingMe

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13 minutes ago, StopKillingMe said:

I guess I don't get it anymore - first you say that wicker baskets are fine, then it turns out you changed them in your mod.

I believe what the rest of us want, is some kind of balance patch or change to balance in the next Alpha release, and we would like to understand what is being changed, specifically, as in a list of what is changed and why.  This is what competitive players need.  A statement of "I balanced techs" isn't enough information, we need to to know what techs were changed and why.  The main reason we need this information is in case the patch gets it wrong, we know what has been changed and what we can do to balance things in the next patch.

An example would be:

Wicker Basket tech research time reduced from 40s to 30s,  this makes researching wicker basket with only one berry patch worthwhile

Attack speed of all slingers reduced by 30%, this should make it easier to counter early age slinger attacks

Pop bonus for Celts barracks reduced from 4 to 3, this should make it harder for Celts to attack early

 

Things like that - we need to enumerate the things that are being changed, and roll that up into a single balance changes document.  Even if ultimately some decision is made to include a Borg mod into the next Alpha, I think it is more than fair that the player community should get to know what balances changes were made, and why - as in specifically what was changed and what is the reason and the desired outcome.  

 

I'll explain in detail.

About 40 secs to 30 secs is because I created a standart time to technologies. Economy techs 30 secs, Army techs 40 secs.

About the reduction of wood from 100 to 80 is because we now have 3 quarters, and soldiers are not trained in the center, so this reduction will help the player to up the technology without suffering too much delay in the construction of his first barrack.

This reduction also helps civilizations with big houses to build their first house without being delayed by population, which happens in the vanilla.

The reduction of the rate is basically a consequence.

Edited by borg-
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23 minutes ago, StopKillingMe said:

Wicker Basket tech research time reduced from 40s to 30s,  this makes researching wicker basket with only one berry patch worthwhile

Attack speed of all slingers reduced by 30%, this should make it easier to counter early age slinger attacks

Pop bonus for Celts barracks reduced from 4 to 3, this should make it harder for Celts to attack early

 

1- This would make map balancing even worse, some players start with 4 berries others with 1. This time reduction should come with a reduction in collection rate.

2- It would probably make slingers weak(-30% attack), Javelins will dominate, and not would it change the fact that it is still op against construction. We need to go deep here, maybe changes all ranged units?

3- Should help.

Edited by borg-
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Sigh.  I guess this is a pointless discussion.  I gave those three things as an example of what needs to be done, and yet again it turns into another "that's not gonna work" post.  Clearly there are too many emotions and personal fiefdoms involved here.  I think it's unfortunate.  0ad is open source if there is any game that should be able to be patched for balance easily, it should be this one.  Oh well, I guess everyone is going to go off in their own direction and make mods.  So be it.  I tried.  I will just play Britons and slinger rush from now on until I see the next change, and if I have to dive into the changelog to find out what balance changes were made for myself, so be it.

 

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2 hours ago, borg- said:

1- This would make map balancing even worse, some players start with 4 berries others with 1. This time reduction should come with a reduction in collection rate.

2- It would probably make slingers weak(-30% attack), Javelins will dominate, and not would it change the fact that it is still op against construction. We need to go deep here, maybe changes all ranged units?

3- Should help.

you have good points.

you have a spreadsheet? to have an global idea.

Edited by Lion.Kanzen

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