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I prefer this. We make cav because we want speed. Otherwise, who would do cav when inf is cheaper and more useful as workers? Definitely not. Units die too fast now and we just see people getting vapourised. 2v1 or bad fight = instant death -> more demanding on good ally and pocket -> less tolerance and more toxicity -> more DoctorOrgans behaviour + exclusion of newer players @real_tabasco_sauce please reconsider the bonus on spear cav against other cavs. The issue is, most civs don't have spear cav. So as soon as someone makes a dozen spear cav, these civs Gaul, Brits, Athen, Maury, Sele are banned from using cav (unless they spam spear champs in P3). Is this what we want? Suggestion: due to the special nature of spear cav, we should give every civ a counter unit, e.g. fanatic, or just give every civ a spear cav option.

Of course they are. I just found it funny how the AI can recommend even a semblance of strategy for 0 A.D, and lay it out in phases.

Because after melee re-balance, melees were killing other melees faster. For spear inf vs cav, this is even more visible because of this damage multiplier. But note : The melee re-balance didn't change relative strengths* of inf spears vs cavs, it just made fights happens faster So the following reduction of inf counter was a net nerf, which tipped off the balance in favor of melee cav * However in army with mixed compositions, inf spears became more impactful as they were before since the % of dps dealt by them was increased. Now that we identified the above, we can discuss if units dying faster is desirable, and if not, how to mitigate it without inadvertently breaking unit balance. About that my take on this is that it's not bad to have faster paced slaughters when a player miss-micro cavalry, as cavalry are already pretty hard to catch: It seems preferable to keep cavalry stats and mobility high but not too fail safe Then the opposite : make cavalry more normalized with infantry (slower movement, lower stats...)

okay then, why was it reduced in the first place from 3x?

don't know why you'd say that. Compared to last year, the model has improved and also apparently acquired some understandment of the game, but still the strict majority of the recommendations given in that answer are trash.

@wraitiiNothing big, but, maybe it is time to change the title of this threat? (I'd suggest to remove reference to A26 as people may believe this is outdated which is not true at all)

This could be a great solution to this bug/exploit:

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/issues/7979 maybe?

Basically I think what would be nice is to have cavs used for their mobility, and not a unit that will always be the best suited in all situations as main core troop. To keep melee cav skirmishing still possible they need to have mobility, but being less effective then infantry to fight as front-lines. Restoring x2 spear cav vs cav would also make them a good choice when needing to counter ranged cavs. Strong counters is a easy way to make units more balanced overall because one player can... counter... any unit "abused" by it's opponent.

It's x3 from existing x2.5. x3 inf polearms vs cav and x2 spear cav vs cavs were the a26 values and cavs, especially champ cavs, where still op, just not as much as now.

I'd definitely like to test this with enough players, shame most don't use mods

yes, I think 3x might be overkill too, but we gotta test first haha

@Lopess do you have any updates on the boats? I think just the bigger arrow ship should get some extra features, like shields and a sail. I'll see if I can get an emblem done.

UPDATE: Version 0.8.2 - The price update interval on the Market was increased from 7 to 10 seconds. - Barter has 10 times less influence on the change of prices for resources. Thus, reverse barter deals aimed at raising or lowering prices will be unprofitable for the player. At the same time, players have the opportunity to: 1. make highly efficient barters during price jumps. 2. barter resources on roughly equal terms with other players. Examples of prices at the start of 2 games

Sounds good. I'm a little worried the 3x counter will be too much against CS cav. But we will see and adjust, if necessary.

Alguma novidade sobre o mod?? Estou ansioso para jogar com todas as civilizações ❤️❤️

Trying to make the maiden guard units for maury more interesting: archer: 100 wood, 90 metal 1.75 sec fire rate 90 hp, higher pierce armor, lower hack armor faster move speed and accel less range less attack prepare time swordswoman: 100 food, 90 metal lower hp less pierce armor higher hack armor faster move speed and accel https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod/pulls/70

3x spearmen/pikemen against cav. @chrstgtr @Arup I agree with you both on speed. Im doing the cav counter (2.5x to 3x) since it was widely requested earlier, but I’d like to experiment with some speed balance in the future.

These civs should have been Chronicles civs. They really screwed up by making them multiplayer civs.

It may just be a GUI issue.

Occasionally, the Ambush map fails to generate due to javascript out of memory error. This crashes the game. interestinglog.htmlmainlog.html

3x for whom against whom? Ideally inf spear and inf pike get giant counter against champion cav, like 3x 4x 5x But spear cav shouldn't counter other cavs at this rate, otherwise you are basically banning all cav strategies as soon as someone makes a few spear cav.

Speed. I think all cav could use a nerf. Setting their speed an about equal to fanatics seems about right with melee cav being slightly faster and range cav being the same as fana (also, would make fana a better counter, which I think it needs to be) also, what exactly is the 3x counter? (Just want to make sure everyone is on same page) kind of related, but melee inf should get a speed boost too. But that’s more of a range vs melee balancing issue.

@real_tabasco_sauce slow down all cavalry. it doesn't make sense to think armored cav is so much faster than human fighter. I am pretty sure the speed difference is not realistic. Look at historical patch for suggestions and specifica

i'm going to go ahead and do 3x counter. Anything else to do in the near term?