I suggest to encourage players to build walls, and to steer away from the concept that player's first base is his last.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

1 hour ago, AIEND said:

Yes, surrounding the city with walls at the same time only limits the expansion of the city, so Iberia's walls at the beginning of the game are not so popular.

Many people don't like them because of the extra walk time their units have to walk to tasks after their production. I have played them long enough to be used to the extra time this takes. It also helps if you choose your first woodline to be right outside a pre-existing gate. The main benefit to iberian walls is that you can fit your entire farming economy inside and the only threat to them is archer cavalry.

[Gurken Khan]

20 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Many people don't like them because of the extra walk time their units have to walk to tasks after their production. I have played them long enough to be used to the extra time this takes.

I don't know when it was changed, but at least in a26 it's very cheap (20w) and really fast (12sec) to turn a wall segment into a gate; I often do it, keeps an occasional cav raid out and doesn't prolong my walk time.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

55 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

I don't know when it was changed, but at least in a26 it's very cheap (20w) and really fast (12sec) to turn a wall segment into a gate; I often do it, keeps an occasional cav raid out and doesn't prolong my walk time.

yea I should really do this as it gets to 6-7 mins, but at the 3-5 minute range there is very little margin for extra wood if you want wood upgrade, barracks, and houses asap.

its also a good idea to build access denial walls between edge of map and cliffs so that cavalry have less access to vulnerable parts of your base. If you are against a civ that will most likely spam ranged cav at you, or even archer cav, then palisade walls are a great way to limit damage. I think the main reason people don't make palisade walls is that they take time to place and build, cost a lot if built early on, and often are messed up by random trees or obstructions that the player might not even see.

One thing that might help with palisade or even stone wall placement is if the building snap feature could be used to connect walls to the map edge or cliffs.

[Gurken Khan]

9 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

yea I should really do this as it gets to 6-7 mins, but at the 3-5 minute range there is very little margin for extra wood if you want wood upgrade, barracks, and houses asap.

Depending on the situation I think it can pay off doing it immediately after start; if you produce two or more units the gate will be done before they spawn. (Just be aware to set the rally point anew, otherwise your units will take the stupid route.)

Here I wanted to go to the marked patch of wood (besides building twin towers on the border to troll my southern neighbor), as you can see it ~halved the walking distance.

[Norse_Harold]

Gurken Khan said:

Quote

I believe players don't build walls because they're not efficient. If you want to change the gameplay to encourage turtling I expect heavy resistance from the vocal MP crowd.

Exactly. So, a path forward with making walls more realistic is through modding and/or an alternate game mode. Once it reaches critical mass then players might like to play it sometimes in multiplayer.

I would like to see walls actually block projectiles, and offer much more offensive and defensive benefits. I read somewhere that castles could be successfully defended with 1/6th the number of troops as those who were attacking. Of course, siege warfare is the logical counter to this, and that can usually only be broken by a counter-attack by an allied army.

Edited August 31, 2022 by Norse_Harold

[thankforpieOfficial]

2 hours ago, Norse_Harold said:

Gurken Khan said:

Exactly. So, a path forward with making walls more realistic is through modding and/or an alternate game mode. Once it reaches critical mass then players might like to play it sometimes in multiplayer.

I would like to see walls actually block projectiles, and offer much more offensive and defensive benefits. I read somewhere that castles could be successfully defended with 1/6th the number of troops as those who were attacking. Of course, siege warfare is the logical counter to this, and that can usually only be broken by a counter-attack by an allied army.

some siege warfare ideas:

1. allow units to carry ladders and/or ropes, or make special unit type that has these (or smith upgrade)
2. allow to ascend the enemy walls via ladders or rope, then descend on the inner side via the same way
3. allow siege tower's garison to be unloaded on top of enemy walls.
4. make walls and/or gates wider to allow for combat on top of them

 

no one really used walls in multiplayer as far as I remember. I used them sometimes to slow down rams by placing them in weird directions and creating layers of walls in front of castle,

but other players didnt care about walls. they just rushed 200pop, smith upgrades and barrack spam and everyone played like that

so the assumption is players didnt care about trying walls or there wasnt enough time for them, or they werent worth it

Edited August 31, 2022 by thankforpieOfficial

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 hours ago, AIEND said:

Yes, surrounding the city with walls at the same time only limits the expansion of the city, so Iberia's walls at the beginning of the game are not so popular.

It is very small again the problem of not being able to close them with walls in the game (or forests).

it is difficult to enclose a large area with walls.

[AIEND]

12 小时前，Lion.Kanzen 说：

在游戏（或森林）中无法用墙关闭它们的问题再次非常小。

很难用墙壁围住大面积。

After all, cities are mainly concentrated in industrial, commercial, religious, government, military camps and other facilities. Agriculture is scattered in the countryside outside the city walls. In fact, I hope that agriculture can be as far away as possible from CC, as is mining.

If we want to defend a large area, we still need to make more use of natural terrain, such as rivers, mountains, forests, and build passes in these places. Even China, which is famous for building the Great Wall, does not think that manpower alone can build walls. Alternative to natural terrain.

[Dakara]

On 29/08/2022 at 2:19 PM, thankforpieOfficial said:

unironically, Seleucids' military camp could work as second base, IN THEORY. in practice no one builds it cus its expensive and even if they do, they build it near their cc.

This building have almost no cost lol

 

[Radagast.]

On 31/08/2022 at 8:30 PM, thankforpieOfficial said:

some siege warfare ideas:

1. allow units to carry ladders and/or ropes, or make special unit type that has these (or smith upgrade)
2. allow to ascend the enemy walls via ladders or rope, then descend on the inner side via the same way
3. allow siege tower's garison to be unloaded on top of enemy walls.
4. make walls and/or gates wider to allow for combat on top of them

There were discussions about this on several occasions. Gameplay isn't a focus of the iron core.

I am a proponent of such creative ideas.

Generally lifting restrictions benefits everyone. Sure there is a matter of control. One can still be crazy and build a wall outside in the forest. Despite not having control of it. Won't work well. Just like in real world. And that's how it should be IMO

[Radagast.]

Not exclusively for walls, IMO also for all other structures. People should be allowed to farm or mine or even live anywhere. Their "ownership" would change depending on the influence.

Territory may be better served by a dynamic implicit control. I'd not visualize this as it's not visual in real world and would spoil fun. Fog of war is fine. That's very close to this concept.

On 01/09/2022 at 10:51 AM, AIEND said:

After all, cities are mainly concentrated in industrial, commercial, religious, government, military camps and other facilities. Agriculture is scattered in the countryside outside the city walls. In fact, I hope that agriculture can be as far away as possible from CC, as is mining.

If we want to defend a large area, we still need to make more use of natural terrain, such as rivers, mountains, forests, and build passes in these places. Even China, which is famous for building the Great Wall, does not think that manpower alone can build walls. Alternative to natural terrain.

I second that.

On 31/08/2022 at 10:39 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

it is difficult to enclose a large area with walls.

Maybe we need more natural realism? 0 A.D. acceleration is in. Do units slow uphill? That's a first step? Forest also slows? Walls should persist. Not get destroyed. In real world walls change hands. It's the Ancient. Even today warfare not dissolves matter such that structures simply disappear. Only because a swordsman hammers into the bricks ...

[Lion.Kanzen]

For now the problem with wall builder is:  is the placement of turret when  you lack of resources for it and building it on(over) me a section of the wall is the solution but it is not implemented 

[Lion.Kanzen]

An example of AoE IV.

 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Lion.Kanzen