Contributing to 3D

[artoo]

5 minutes ago, Lopess said:

I can help a little with 3d if no one is available

You can't teach an old horse too many new tricks, and 3d modeling is out of scope and time for me.

If I was younger, I would love to get into it.

Edited November 3, 2021 by artoo

[Loki1950]

One old horse here started in on blender several years ago not that hard and the number in my forum name is my birth year

Enjoy the Choice

[artoo]

On 03/11/2021 at 11:28 PM, Loki1950 said:

One old horse here started in on blender several years ago not that hard and the number in my forum name is my birth year

The point is, the day only has 24h, and there is simply no time left to start from scratch with blender etc. Its simply not my area of expertise, I don't need it in my professional life, its already enough to read documentation of eg the 0AD api, xml schemas etc.

[Radiotraining]

32 minutes ago, artoo said:

The point is, the day only has 24h, and there is simply no time left to start from scratch with blender etc. Its simply not my area of expertise, I don't need it in my professional life, its already enough to read documentation of eg the 0AD api, xml schemas etc.

yeah, to be honest I feel that. I also started to learn Blender only recently and yeah, is maybe not too difficult when you reach some proficiency, but the curve to get there is still quite steep if you have to start everything from scratch. And not everyone is interested to learn something from scratch or should feel compelled to do so.

It would be the same for me to learn, i don't know, python language or something.. I mean I certainly could, but as I'm not a developer  I have no interest in building that kind of knowledge and it would feel a waste of time more than a useful investment. More so, I wouldn't even know where to start, so it would probably take me double the time of someone who has already some basic knowledge and interest already.

I get the frustration of m7600 and I understand where he's coming from. I think he's right to say that more people should try out and learn, but I don't think this is the most correct approach. Sorry for chiming in, but I just wanted to spend some words about it

However I encourage artoo to still try it out on your own when you can! It may seem overwhelming at the beginning, but after then it's pretty fun!  

 

[artoo]

26 minutes ago, Radiotraining said:

It would be the same for me to learn, i don't know, python language or something.. I mean I certainly could, but as I'm not a developer  I have no interest in building that kind of knowledge and it would feel a waste of time more than a useful investment. More so, I wouldn't even know where to start, so it would probably take me double the time of someone who has already some basic knowledge and interest already.

 

You gave precisely reason why there is no time for blender.

I am much more productive coding, which is what I do all day long anyway.

Would be waste of time to get into blender, if there are such excellent people around, who do the geometry thing and exporting like I am used to code.

 

I follow basically the unix philosophy, do one thing, and do it well.

 

Anyhow, let's focus on the Han China mod.

Edited November 6, 2021 by artoo

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I don't know how it's difficult to understand that some people develop different skillsets and that the team doesn't need to be chock full of Renaissance Savants. It's a team for a reason, because not everyone can or will do everything. Folks with different skillsets and talents come together to create a worthwhile product. It boggles my mind that when people like your work and want to see more of it, you turn around and yell, "No, you do it!" I mean, what are you even here for anyway? 

Edited November 6, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Radiotraining]

There's no reason to make it like a big discussion. It's my fault that I've stepped in with my post, but that's not to say that you haven't also some good reasons as well. I understand the call for people to be more self-sufficient and learn a little bit of everything. That's absolutely great and I would agree! It's just that dropping the ball and expecting someone to catch up quickly into something completely new doesn't really work and is not very correct either.

But it's okay if you're also busy at the moment and would prefer to delegate this little work to maybe someone else.. I'm a complete noob but I can also take a look and mess around a bit maybe!! It's fine  

Just don't put all the responsibility and blame on a single person. Of course there's no limit to what people could learn in life and there are not impossible boundaries, I absolutely agree! But that's also a personal choice and you can't assume that everyone can understand with the same ease or is even interested in the same things you do. But more power to you for having experimented different things on your own!!

Beside, we all know that @Stan` is a superhuman, so he can't be really put in the same category poor mortals like us! ahahah

Edited November 6, 2021 by Radiotraining

[artoo]

Sadly, a meant to be communication/coordination/development thread took a wrong direction.
 

20 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

you turn around and yell, "No, you do it!"

It is not my comprehension how open source software development works, in fact it would not work like this.

I am also amazed, if I do stuff for something and spend time on it, I would like it to be included into the something.  Credits will be given to all contributors anyway.

 

So here are some items in the art department on the ToDo (like feel free to improve portraits, skins, whatever).

 

* portraits rework (units & techs, buildings?), rice cursor to let them farm, almost all of this stuff is placeholder, copied from somewhere/other mod, I take what I can get, gimp and me are no real friends, apart from some very basic standard tasks

* rice farms & granary

* getting the new m7600 models in the mod, ie fortress, big tower(no idea if the smaller towers are the same as in the mod), and maybe add the new wall(which I think will have issues with footprint as is)

* probably a few additional shields, maybe also arms, dunno if clothes variants are enough

* a new dock matching the other dock footprints, with garrison flag prop(it is a small outpost with small territory and  10 garrison), maybe the old dock can be reused for another unique naval building.

*  rubble for CC and dock as the other civs have afaik

* a biome maybe, bamboo, willow, cherry blossom are available already, its more like terrain skins, not sure India matches  South China(but probably closest), and maybe a panda bear as a typical animal in bamboo woods

[Stan`]

Split

[artoo]

1 hour ago, m7600 said:

So, several modifications were made. Eventually the historians simply went missing in action. So, the Han project is at an impasse. The consensus seems to be that if historians don't give their approval, this civ won't be implemented. Which is a shame, because it's evidently ready to get implemented in the game.

This is why the Han mod has been developed outside the forum mainly.

I am not that bad with history, interested myself, so I don't need court historians, I spent quite a bit of reading to give some context to techs, heros, auras, weapons. Its fun, and that's where I spend the bit extra time rather than on blender.

A new unit was introduced recently, the halberdier, or halberdman to match naming schema.

It completes the Han army, spears, halberds(Ji), sword as melee, where the halberd is probably the most powerful anti cavalry unit there is.

It gives free hand and not bound to limitations, if it doesn't get included, it can still be a shiny mod, a must have so to speak.

[artoo]

Once the Han are deemed complete, I think focus should be on Xiongnu.

In my opinion, the Han only make kind of sense to include along with Xiongnu.

 

My idea would be, since I find the Xiongnu incomplete, too weak in economy and defensive capabilities, the could be a NPC gaia invader faction wreaking havoc on china or steppe biome maps, similar to maybe germanic tribes on roman maps.

 

But overall, Han should be included, I agree, since they had  indirect contact with Romans via silk road, and in late eastern Han, had diplomatic relations with Rome afaik. Its also know, a Roman legion ended up in ancient chinese territory and likely settled there, coins and roman items found there.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Just now, m7600 said:

As for the history part, there's a lot of stuff that's not historical and it's already in the game

While this may not directly prevent the inclusion of these civs, it may make the historians want to "fix" the existing civs before adding more civs with additional "inaccuracies." I would say though, historians, speak up if you want to make fixes. Else, the civs could be added without your (historians') input.

I agree with you though, that the Han are super close, maybe even ready right now. Add them now, so people can play them via SVN and balance them before A26 is released. Zapotecs are close too, just need some more realistic Forge techs. Garamantes not yet. Xiongnu need their "nomad" gameplay tweaked a bunch first IMHO. Them and Scythians (and maybe Huns later) are a big departure from the "Standard" 0 A.D. gameplay, so will need special attention.

But I agree, "historical inaccuracies" are not really a deal breaker for me, since the mentioned civs are already as good "historically" as the existing civs.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 minutes ago, artoo said:

In my opinion, the Han only make kind of sense to include along with Xiongnu.

A dual release would be fitting. Either that, or release Han for A26 and have an Alpha 27 "Nomads" release with Xiongnu and Scythians. DE's Scythians already create a strong framework. I'd go ahead and make Xiongnu a playable civ. That doesn't mean some China maps can't have Xiongnu raiders and brigands (perhaps with triggers).

Edited November 6, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[artoo]

Imagine the epic campaign that could be done to defeat the Xiongnu finally.

[artoo]

14 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I'd go ahead and make Xiongnu a playable civ. That doesn't mean some China maps can't have Xiongnu raiders and brigands (perhaps with triggers).

Go ahead, even as maybe gaia, the Xiongnu would have to be a more complete faction, ie equivalent to playable, so Ai can put on tough fights with them.

[Radiotraining]

29 minutes ago, m7600 said:

anyone who wants to make mods for 0 AD can benefit greatly by learning the basics of Blender.

I agree with this

 

[artoo]

Very nice...

 

Sadly, the large tower model throws a prop error...

<p>art/meshes/structural/han_large_tower.dae: FCollada 175: COLLADA document loaded successfully.</p>
<p>art/meshes/structural/han_large_tower.dae: Found convertible object 'Plane_083_005'</p>
<p>art/meshes/structural/han_large_tower.dae: Converting 'Plane_005'</p>
<p>art/meshes/structural/han_large_tower.dae: Found static geometry</p>
<p class="error">ERROR: Failed to find matching prop point called "projectile" in model "art/meshes/structural/han_large_tower.dae" for actor "structures/han/tower_great.xml255"</p>
<p class="error">ERROR: Failed to find matching prop point called "projectile" in model "art/meshes/structural/han_large_tower.dae" for actor "structures/han/tower_great.xml255"</p>

 

I think this requires a new texture baked?

[artoo]

I'd have a small request.

 

Since the bixies on CC and Ministry have been deemd inaccurate historicly, would it be possible to make the two props just like a prop with two prop points? Eg a tree could be attached instead of the bixies? Atm, it is a prop with mesh of the bixie for each building.

Would be cool if either the bixie was replaced by something accurate, or freely selectable with a prop point instead of bixie.

 

I think it looks bad to just remove the bixies and leave empty spots, it makes the entrance so much less inviting.

Edited November 11, 2021 by artoo

[Stan`]

Sadly using prop points has a performance impact so it's discouraged to do it when you don't need them to adjust to the terrain. Someone posted some progress in making an accurate bixie. I'm really busy these days so I didn't have time to follow up. It's in the pipe though.

[Lion.Kanzen]

6 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Sadly using prop points has a performance impact so it's discouraged to do it when you don't need them to adjust to the terrain. Someone posted some progress in making an accurate bixie. I'm really busy these days so I didn't have time to follow up. It's in the pipe though.

we need support and help in the 3d sector. it will be difficult to keep growing without help from someone experienced in gaming 3d art.

I want to continue designing but just, my doubts with the sizes of the pngs and the props that a model should have.

[artoo]

15 hours ago, Stan` said:

Sadly using prop points has a performance impact so it's discouraged to do it when you don't need them to adjust to the terrain. Someone posted some progress in making an accurate bixie. I'm really busy these days so I didn't have time to follow up. It's in the pipe though.

 

No problem, maybe someone else takes on the task if time allows.

Its not big important one in my view, but removing the bixies makes these buildings look a bit like the Xiongnu plundered it.

 

There are a whole list of small issues with the buildings, as Chinese commenter pointed out, eg the little signs on the doors.

[ymming]

On 12/11/2021 at 4:53 AM, artoo said:

Since the bixies on CC and Ministry have been deemd inaccurate historicly, would it be possible to make the two props just like a prop with two prop points? Eg a tree could be attached instead of the bixies? Atm, it is a prop with mesh of the bixie for each building.

Would be cool if either the bixie was replaced by something accurate, or freely selectable with a prop point instead of bixie.

 

I think it looks bad to just remove the bixies and leave empty spots, it makes the entrance so much less inviting.

could replace with "阙que"  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Que_(tower)

Stone structure (pillar or tower) build in pairs outside the gate of city or building to express rank and prestige... 

[artoo]

9 hours ago, ymming said:

Stone structure (pillar or tower) build in pairs outside the gate of city or building to express rank and prestige... 

That's a nice idea, I wouldn't mind.

Seeing these cool towers, atm, I have the roman siege wall models for the palisades.

I was thinking there could be a smaller sized wall, where some of these towers could be reused?

 

http://www.chaz.org/Arch/China/City/Changan_through_time_large.png

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by artoo

[Stan`]

I don't think it's gonna be a good idea as it will extend the footprint and might confuse players into thinking they are actually defense towers.

[artoo]

4 minutes ago, Stan` said:

I don't think it's gonna be a good idea as it will extend the footprint and might confuse players into thinking they are actually defense towers.

Why would footprint change? Its roman siege wall footprint.

The dubbed rammed earth wall would need wall towers and a small gate plus wall segments, its just swapping dae and then decide if they should/have turret slots?