Blemmye Desert raider identical to javelin cav?

[Yekaterina]

Looking at civilisation tree for the Kushites, I have spotted that the Blemmye Desert raiders are identical to normal javelin cavalry in stats. Their only difference is in the cost and loot if killed, therefore I am curious as to why such a mercenary unit exists; most players would definitely choose the normal cavalry to avoid the metal cost. 

I have a suggestion: change the Blemmye desert raider to a mercenary cavalry archer. This would reflect the Kushites' heavy use of archers in battles and also give the civ new potential strategies. The Kushites will not be too OP after this change because mercenaries still cost metal and are always avoided when possible. 

 

[Player of 0AD]

I also think that this is not great. But at the other hand, kushites are already so strong, so please don't change the Blemmyes, at least don't give them cav archers...

Further differences currently:
- the Blemmyes can receive the mercenary upgrade tech

- they are faster to train

- if javelin cavalry is your strategy, you can unlock phase 3 with the help of these buildings ; )

Edited April 19, 2021 by Player of 0AD

[Nescio]

How about differentiating camels from cavalry? A proposal: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3735

[Yekaterina]

@Nescio I think this camel differentiation is a good idea. It really would make the Blemmye mercenary not obsolete and distinguish the Ptolemies. 

For  Kushites going to P3 I would choose 1 blacksmith, 1 temple, 1 market, 1 pyramid. 

 

 

[Player of 0AD]

33 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

@Nescio I think this camel differentiation is a good idea. It really would make the Blemmye mercenary not obsolete and distinguish the Ptolemies. 

For  Kushites going to P3 I would choose 1 blacksmith, 1 temple, 1 market, 1 pyramid. 

 

 

Why not 1 pyramid, 1 second pyramid, 1 third pyramid and 1 forth pyramid? ; )

[Yekaterina]

I need a market and a blacksmith...

[alre]

Considering the striking difference in price, simply being an otherwise unavaiable kind of citizen soldiers is not enough of a difference to justify any mercenary unit. I hope mercenaries get a strong rework in a25, at that point having both citizen and mercenary versions of the same unit could actually make real sense.

Edited April 21, 2021 by alre

[Nescio]

7 minutes ago, alre said:

Considering the striking difference in price, simply being an otherwise unavaiable kind of citizen soldiers is not enough of a difference to justify any mercenary unit. I hope mercenaries get a strong rework in a25, at that point having both citizen and mercenary versions of the same unit could actually make real sense.

There is a proposal to make mercenaries start at advanced rank: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3699

[alre]

I know, I was referring to that too. However, more could be done, and I was also thinking about gaia mercenary camps, that were proposed to be integrated from Delenda Est. If that wasn't done, I think something else is necessary to differentiate mercenaries from normal units. For a start, the fact that mercenaries are faster to train is kind of defeated by the fact that in many civs they require their own building. What if the mercenary camp costed much more (mainly food and metal) and at the moment that you build it, a small company of mercenaries spawn next to it? After being built, the camp could have several roles: a building where to train other mercenaries, or one that if you lose it, the mercenaries leave you.

[LetswaveaBook]

On 21/04/2021 at 5:11 PM, alre said:

Considering the striking difference in price, simply being an otherwise unavaiable kind of citizen soldiers is not enough of a difference to justify any mercenary unit. I hope mercenaries get a strong rework in a25, at that point having both citizen and mercenary versions of the same unit could actually make real sense.

I hope that they don´t give them automatic rank 2, since that would be a hell of a difference. +1 armor (equivalent to +10%HP),+25% HP and +20% attack. I would hope that instead the are given a smaller bonus like only +20% HP instead of promotion.

 

On 19/04/2021 at 11:24 PM, Player of 0AD said:

Why not 1 pyramid, 1 second pyramid, 1 third pyramid and 1 forth pyramid? ; )

Well, stand up and walk to the window. Why don´t the neighbors have 4 pyramids in their backyard? because pyramids are expensive.

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

59 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

hope that they don´t give them automatic rank 2, since that would be a hell of a difference. +1 armor (equivalent to +10%HP),+25% HP and +20% attack. I would hope that instead the are given a smaller bonus like only +20% HP instead of promotion.

I don't really see the issue myself.  Costs can always be adjusted to compensate for that.

[Nescio]

16 hours ago, alre said:

I know, I was referring to that too. However, more could be done, and I was also thinking about gaia mercenary camps, that were proposed to be integrated from Delenda Est. If that wasn't done, I think something else is necessary to differentiate mercenaries from normal units. For a start, the fact that mercenaries are faster to train is kind of defeated by the fact that in many civs they require their own building. What if the mercenary camp costed much more (mainly food and metal) and at the moment that you build it, a small company of mercenaries spawn next to it? After being built, the camp could have several roles: a building where to train other mercenaries, or one that if you lose it, the mercenaries leave you.

Having map-specific mercenary camps is something I'd like to see too, and it has been proposed multiple times in the past (e.g. here or here). The suggestion to make embassies prerequisites instead of unit-training structures is interesting too. Anyway, proposals aren't either-or.

As with everything, discussions on the forum are nice and all, but what's needed is someone to actually do the work. If nobody creates a patch, nothing would happen.

12 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

I hope that they don´t give them automatic rank 2, since that would be a hell of a difference. +1 armor (equivalent to +10%HP),+25% HP and +20% attack. I would hope that instead the are given a smaller bonus like only +20% HP instead of promotion.

Ranged troops don't get higher resistance or attack damage. Moreover, there is already a technology that makes mercenaries start at advanced rank (added in A22). And keep in mind higher ranks are worse at gathering. Fundamentally the idea is to make mercenaries somewhat in between citizens and champions.