Classic Mode mod

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I've often thought the game could have an "Empires Ascendant" mode, which is what the game is now with territories, citizen-soldiers, etc. This is the mode that is standard for the game and the mode that's used in official campaigns and what is used for ranking in multiplayer.

 

But.... there could also be a "classic" mode where the game plays more like an old-school RTS akin to Age of Empires or Command & Conquer. Building on my "Two Gender Citizens" mod (here: 

 

I was thinking of creating such a "Classic Mode" mod for Alpha 24. 

Specs:

• Citizen-Soldier concept removed. There is now a "classic" Citizen/Peasant unit for gathering and building, and Soldiers for fighting, with no overlap of roles. 
• Include the Two-Gendered Citizens mod so that the new Peasants/Citizens have male and female forms.
• No territory restrictions or bonuses. Borders completely removed.
• Place all Champions back into the Fortress.
• Rename Metal to Gold. Adjust icons and terminology to match.
• Make Catafalques more like "Relics" from Age of Empires 2. Capture one, place it into the Temple to get a trickle of Gold.
• Heroes removed as trainable units (but still remain in Atlas for scenarios and campaigns).
• Adjust costs and stats to be similar to Age of Empires 2.
• Archery Range unlocked for all civs.
• 4 phases, call the 4th Phase Empire Phase.
• Remove automatic ranking and introduce unit Upgrades (light, medium, heavy).
• Create an upgrade progression for ships, like in AOE1 (light, medium, heavy).
• Make Gold the trading and resource, like in AOE2 and AOM. 
• 1 gatherer per farm; adjust farming rate to compensate.
• Capturing removed, except with specific circumstances (Catafalque Relics, for example).

 

Anything else, guys? 

==========================================================

 

MOD IS NOW PLAYABLE. COMPATIBLE WITH ALPHA 24.

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/0-A.D.-Classic-Mode

 

Still a work in progress. 

Please report bugs and suggest balancing and gameplay ideas. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Classic counters.

limited resource farm

starting units only citizen and scout.

Scout available to the stable.

Citizens can hunt (range attack)

AoM heroes tier ( you know not OP)

 

Slinger bonus vs tower (yes that idea again but more balanced with the numbers of 0AD unit limits.)

 

No XP for soldiers.

 

Transport ship

 

 

Edited March 25, 2021 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Classic counters.

Ah yes, forgot.

Barracks

• Village Phase

Spearman = Trash unit (Food and Wood), Anti-cav

• Village Phase
• (Upgrade; Town Phase) Medium Spearman
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Heavy Spearman (Greeks, Hellenistics, and Romans) = Hoplites, Pikemen, Triarii; no longer trash or low cost
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Elite Spearman (Spartans; Hellenistics)

Swordsman = Anti-infantry, cost Food and Gold

• Town Phase
• (Upgrade; Town Phase) Medium Swordsman
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Heavy Swordsman (Romans, Iberians)
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Elite Swordsman (Romans)

Archery Range

• Village Phase

Slinger = No bonuses, Trash unit (low cost Food and a small amount of Stone)

• Village Phase
• (Upgrade; Town Phase) Medium Slinger
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Heavy Slinger (Balearic and Rhodian slingers)

Skirmisher = Trash unit (Food and Wood), anti-ranged (vs infantry and cavalry)

• Village Phase
• (Upgrade) Medium Skirmisher = Highest tier for most civs
• (Upgrade) Heavy Skirmisher = No longer trash or low cost; Thureophoroi

Archer = anti-barracks units; Wood and Gold

• Town Phase
• (Upgrade; Town Phase) Medium Archer = The highest tier for most civs
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Heavy Archer (Persians, Kushites, Mauryas)
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase; replaces "Heavy Archer" upgrade for some civs) Crossbow (Hellenistics, Chinese) = Adds a small crush attack against buildings

Stable

• Village Phase
• Camel versions of the units below have a "Stench" aura that reduces the attack and speed of nearby Horse Cavalry by 10%

Scout = Trash (Food only), no bonuses except Vision range and speed

• Village Phase
• No upgrades

Melee Cavalry = Anti-ranged infantry; Food and Gold

• Town Phase
• (Upgrade; Town Phase) Medium Cavalry
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Heavy Cavalry
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Cataphract Cavalry (Persians and Hellenistics)

Skirmish Cavalry = Anti-Cavalry; Food and Wood

• Village Phase
• (Upgrade; Town Phase) Medium Skirmish Cavalry
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Heavy Skirmish Cavalry

Cavalry Archer = Anti-Barracks units; Unlocked after building an Archery Range; Wood and Gold

• Town Phase
• (Upgrade; City Phase) Medium Cavalry Archer
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Heavy Cavalry Archer

Fortress

• City Phase

Champion 1 = Infantry

• City Phase
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Elite Champion 1

Champion 2 = Cavalry

• City Phase
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Elite Champion 2

Champion 3 = If historically justified; these are your War Elephants and Chariots

• Empire Phase
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Elite Champion 3

Champion 4 = If historically justified; these are your War Elephants and Chariots

• Empire Phase
• (Upgrade; Empire Phase) Elite Champion 4

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

limited resource farm

Better yet, if we make this possible to "reseed" in the Farmstead. Or just have a "Crop Rotation" tech that changes the Field food amount from 2000 (or whatever) to unlimited, so that rebuilding is unnecessary in the late game.

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

starting units only citizen and scout.

Agreed.

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Citizens can hunt (range attack)

Agreed, especially if it can be done as a secondary attack. Citizens usually defend themselves with a dagger, but hunt with a short bow.

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

AoM heroes tier ( you know not OP)

Not so sure I want to include Heroes at all. Possibly add Bannermen and Officers as specialty aura units (in limited numbers)? I'd want to keep heroes for scenarios and campaigns, like in Starcraft or AOE2.

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Slinger bonus vs tower (yes that idea again but more balanced with the numbers of 0AD unit limits.)

Nah. Slingers are an Archery Range trash unit. Leave anti-building stuff to siege weapons and special units.

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

No XP for soldiers.

For sure. We can use a classic upgrade progression system. Light -> Medium -> Heavy

 

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Transport ship

I'm thinking the Merchant Ship can double as the Transport ship for now. Warships use a Light -> Medium -> Heavy upgrade progression (with no garrisoning capacity). Warships are also smaller and cheaper, for massed naval battles on island maps.

Edited March 25, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I'm thinking the Merchant Ship can double as the Transport ship for now. Warships use a Light -> Medium -> Heavy upgrade progression (with no garrisoning capacity).

I thought so too

[Aragorn30]

I think it's a very good idea that could attract new users (especially those - quite numerous it seems - looking for a game style close to Age of Empire).
Another nice point in the AoE/AoM series is the visual enhancement of the buildings when ageing. It really gives the impression to progress in the game and to have reached a stage. But well ... it would require a lot of work and the development team is already very busy (thanks a lot to them for the incredible work done so far!).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, Aragorn30 said:

I think it's a very good idea that could attract new users (especially those - quite numerous it seems - looking for a game style close to Age of Empire).
Another nice point in the AoE/AoM series is the visual enhancement of the buildings when ageing. It really gives the impression to progress in the game and to have reached a stage. But well ... it would require a lot of work and the development team is already very busy (thanks a lot to them for the incredible work done so far!).

It could be possible to do building upgrades in Empires Ascendant, but just for Civic Centers so there's a visual indicator of the phase. That would reduce the workload, while still including the feature in the game.

[hyperion]

On 25/03/2021 at 9:31 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Rename Metal to Gold. Adjust icons and terminology to match.

Spice, a homage to Dune, one of the oldest memorable games in this genre. Spice certainly was worth a lot in the 0ad time frame and I suspect used as a currency to some degree.

 

On 25/03/2021 at 9:31 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Capturing removed, except with specific circumstances (Catafalque Relics, for example).

Unless massively improved I'd like to see this in vanilla too

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, hyperion said:

Unless massively improved I'd like to see this in vanilla too

a gameplay mode would be interesting.

 

[av93]

What about naval system? It could be Boarding Ship> Siege Ship> Arrow ship, but if you stick historically based, not all civs had siege ships. (Maybe they could use "mercenary" at least in name, ships)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

MOD IS NOW PLAYABLE. COMPATIBLE WITH ALPHA 24.

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/0-A.D.-Classic-Mode

 

Still a work in progress. 

Please report bugs and suggest balancing and gameplay ideas. 

 

Note: Naval and Unit progression techs (Basic->Advanced->Elite) not yet implemented. 

Edited April 2, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Aragorn30]

8 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

MOD IS NOW PLAYABLE. COMPATIBLE WITH ALPHA 24.

https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/0-A.D.-Classic-Mode

 

Still a work in progress. 

Please report bugs and suggest balancing and gameplay ideas. 

 

Note: Naval and Unit progression techs (Basic->Advanced->Elite) not yet implemented. 

Thank you for this first release. It works well on my computer. It is pleasant to not have territory restriction anymore.
Some buildings such as civic center have still capture points.

[hyperion]

Gave it a try in SP. The AI doesn't build any houses or anything else for that matter, so not a challenge. Territory is still mentioned in different places like tooltips.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, hyperion said:

Gave it a try in SP. The AI doesn't build any houses or anything else for that matter, so not a challenge. Territory is still mentioned in different places like tooltips.

I am not sure if I can do anything about the AI unless a programmer helps out.

[hyperion]

6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I am not sure if I can do anything about the AI unless a programmer helps out.

Well, had a short look at the AI and it seems there is no easy fix as the territory concept is used for planning in many places. Might be easier to leave territory as-is and just not render the border (replace territory_border_mask.png). Then the AI will mostly play as it currently does and as players can place anything anywhere there is no change for them.

Long term this mod certainly would need it's own AI.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Indeed. AI will need updates if ever nomadic civs are implemented as well (as I imagine nomadic civs wouldn't use territory by definition). I do really like your solution for the mod though.  Thank you.

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, hyperion said:

Well, had a short look at the AI and it seems there is no easy fix as the territory concept is used for planning in many places. Might be easier to leave territory as-is and just not render the border (replace territory_border_mask.png). Then the AI will mostly play as it currently does and as players can place anything anywhere there is no change for them.

 

This works if I edit territory_border.png and make it completely translucent. The AI now builds things again. But now how do I get rid of the territory line on the minimap? 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Do we want four free starting towers (weak sentry towers) like in Age of Mythology or no starting towers like in AOE2? 

[hyperion]

51 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

But now how do I get rid of the territory line on the minimap?

Shame, didn't think of that.

Looking at the code, this is handled in the core and I don't see a way for a mod to hook into it. Well, I guess an argument can be made for the minimap to be configurable to some degree from within the game. Like toggling displaying some resources or not. I haven't thought about what people actually might want to be able to do but adding borders to such a list would be trivial. Guess it's time to ask @wraitii if there were such discussions before and if adding this to a25 would be an option. Maybe @nani is aware of a general wish list wrt minimap as well.

[nani]

For a quick hack you could try changing the glsl code for the minimap render to transparent for the territory lines (I havent checked if it's possible)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

So, I will release a hacky version for Alpha 24. I didn't edit any of the unit counters, so the soldier stats should be similar or identical to Alpha 24. However, the classic mode of building anywhere, having scouts, and 2-gendered citizens who do all the work are all there. 

 

Release Candidate:

 

classic_mode_a24_1.pyromod

[hyperion]

I gave it another try. Well, it's hard to say much as I'm simply not used to the changes and all feels new and wired

So some minor stuff mostly:

• an own logo on the start page would be nice
• default play speed should be normal me thinks
• scouts seem to fast
• cc still capture-able
• sele barack has tech to select either champion a or b but neither are available
• sele theatron should probably be dropped or a purpose be found

 

As you went with the hide territory border approach I wiped up a minimal patch to hide them on the mini-map as well, unfortunately the c++ part needs recompilation. Use as you want.

minimap_territory_borders.patch

[Langbart]

On 23/04/2021 at 8:18 PM, hyperion said:

As you went with the hide territory border approach I wiped up a minimal patch to hide them on the mini-map as well, unfortunately the c++ part needs recompilation. Use as you want.

I applied your patch (mods/mod/gui/gui.rnc & mods/public/gui/session/minimap/MiniMap.xml manually) to the latest SVN version and it worked. The lines on the minimap are gone.

Regarding the territory border, setting the "BorderThickness" via 0ad/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/territorymanager.xml  to zero, might be easier.

Thanks for the patch, but it might end up being buried in the forum. Can't you upload it to Phabricator and add a way for modders to easily set the thickness of the territory line on the minimap, just like modders can set the thickness of the territory line in the game view window?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

3 hours ago, Langbart said:

I applied your patch (mods/mod/gui/gui.rnc & mods/public/gui/session/minimap/MiniMap.xml manually) to the latest SVN version and it worked. The lines on the minimap are gone.

Regarding the territory border, setting the "BorderThickness" via 0ad/binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/data/territorymanager.xml  to zero, might be easier.

Thanks for the patch, but it might end up being buried in the forum. Can't you upload it to Phabricator and add a way for modders to easily set the thickness of the territory line on the minimap, just like modders can set the thickness of the territory line in the game view window?

Setting BorderThickness to 0.0 didn't do this for me. Hmm

[Langbart]

6 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Setting BorderThickness to 0.0 didn't do this for me. Hmm

It only works for the territory lines in the game view window not on the minimap, the disappearance of the minimap lines is only possible with @hyperion's patch. The three images build on themselves, each also contains its predecessor.

1. rP25313
2. rP25313+hyperion patch
3. rP25313+hyperion patch+BorderThickness zero

If that's clear and it doesn't work for you to hide the territory lines in the game view window by setting them to zero via "BorderThickness", then we have a problem, because it works for me with the SVN version and A24b. Can you check the - redico mod, I recently updated it with this mechanism?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

27 minutes ago, Langbart said:

It only works for the territory lines in the game view window not on the minimap, the disappearance of the minimap lines is only possible with @hyperion's patch. The three images build on themselves, each also contains its predecessor.

1. rP25313
2. rP25313+hyperion patch
3. rP25313+hyperion patch+BorderThickness zero

If that's clear and it doesn't work for you to hide the territory lines in the game view window by setting them to zero via "BorderThickness", then we have a problem, because it works for me with the SVN version and A24b. Can you check the - redico mod, I recently updated it with this mechanism?

I'm confused. Your mod doesn't edit territorymanager.xml  It adds-on to Player.js.