A24 Personal Balance FeedBack

[Edwarf]

Hello, 

I just wanted to give my personal balance feedback about A24 before its release.

rev : 24822

General balance remark :

• Elephant Stable are too expensive and too long to build compared to Arsenal :

Elephant Stable : 200 wood + 200 stone -> 240 seconds

Arsenal : 300 wood -> 180 seconds

• Roman, Persian and Kushites siege should be more expensive than standard siege because they are stronger.
• The number of building buildable should be set on your current pop limit not a constant.

For exemple :

Embassy : instead of 3 Embassy buildable max, 1 Embassy +1 every 100 pop cap.

Towers : instead of 30 Towers max,  1 Tower +1 every 20 pop cap.

Forts : instead of 10 Forts max, 1 Fort +1 every 50 pop cap

Same for Kushites Mercenary Camps, Pyramids ...

• Civilization team bonus should be applied to the civilization itself not only teammates.
• Spying technologies are too expensive.
• Theatron is too expensive or need to be stronger, improve current bonus or add one (Resource Trickle for exemple such as  Persian Apadana)
• Kushites Monutental Architecture too expensive for a bonus/penalty technologie.
• Baracks garrison experience gain should be only for infantry, The cavalry should gain experience in stable.

Civilizations particularity :

Carthaginians :

• It is an archer civilization but they don't have access to "Archery tradition" such as Mauryans Perians and Kushites.

Mauryas :

• Mauryan archer champions : same price as standard archer champions but they are stronger due to the poison.
• Mauryan pillar (Edict pillar of Ashoka) are too expensive, or should be buildable on ally or neutral territory.
• Mauryan Hero (Chandragrupta Maurya) has no bonuses and can't train archer anymore, makes it useless.

Iberians :

• Iberian cavalry champions : same price has standard cavalry champions but they are stronger due to the fire.

Romans :

• Roman Castra (army camp) : deals more damage than a Fort.
• Roman Castra (army camp) : unit trained are rank 2 on purpose ?

Ptolemies :

• Litghthouse too expensive : it is just a big  outpost now. An outpost is the same for 60 wood instead of 200 stone + 200 metal.

Britons :

• The number of dogs trainable should be set in function of the population limit or the number of stable, not to a constant (20).
• Dogs might be a bit expensive or need upgrades.

Macedonians :

• Macedonian crossbow currently too weak compared to standard archer champions except if they never miss their target, has linear splash or has armor piercing.

Crossbow : 40 pierce / 3 seconds

Archer : 13.5 / 1 second

(Crossbow can target a 1hp unit wasting 39 pierce damage and also crossbow not very usefull to "hit and run" because the 1st arrow is shot 3 seconds after the order.)

 

I hope this small feedback can be usefull.

What do you think about this ? @borg- @Feldfeld @ValihrAnt

[borg-]

44 minutes ago, Edwarf said:

Hello, 

I just wanted to give my personal balance feedback about A24 before its release.

rev : 24822

General balance remark :

• Elephant Stable are too expensive and too long to build compared to Arsenal :

Elephant Stable : 200 wood + 200 stone -> 240 seconds

Arsenal : 300 wood -> 180 seconds

• Roman, Persian and Kushites siege should be more expensive than standard siege because they are stronger.
• The number of building buildable should be set on your current pop limit not a constant.

For exemple :

Embassy : instead of 3 Embassy buildable max, 1 Embassy +1 every 100 pop cap.

Towers : instead of 30 Towers max,  1 Tower +1 every 20 pop cap.

Forts : instead of 10 Forts max, 1 Fort +1 every 50 pop cap

Same for Kushites Mercenary Camps, Pyramids ...

• Civilization team bonus should be applied to the civilization itself not only teammates.
• Spying technologies are too expensive.
• Theatron is too expensive or need to be stronger, improve current bonus or add one (Resource Trickle for exemple such as  Persian Apadana)
• Kushites Monutental Architecture too expensive for a bonus/penalty technologie.
• Baracks garrison experience gain should be only for infantry, The cavalry should gain experience in stable.

Civilizations particularity :

Carthaginians :

• It is an archer civilization but they don't have access to "Archery tradition" such as Mauryans Perians and Kushites.

Mauryas :

• Mauryan archer champions : same price as standard archer champions but they are stronger due to the poison.
• Mauryan pillar (Edict pillar of Ashoka) are too expensive, or should be buildable on ally or neutral territory.
• Mauryan Hero (Chandragrupta Maurya) has no bonuses and can't train archer anymore, makes it useless.

Iberians :

• Iberian cavalry champions : same price has standard cavalry champions but they are stronger due to the fire.

Romans :

• Roman Castra (army camp) : deals more damage than a Fort.
• Roman Castra (army camp) : unit trained are rank 2 on purpose ?

Ptolemies :

• Litghthouse too expensive : it is just a big  outpost now. An outpost is the same for 60 wood instead of 200 stone + 200 metal.

Britons :

• The number of dogs trainable should be set in function of the population limit or the number of stable, not to a constant (20).
• Dogs might be a bit expensive or need upgrades.

Macedonians :

• Macedonian crossbow currently too weak compared to standard archer champions except if they never miss their target, has linear splash or has armor piercing.

Crossbow : 40 pierce / 3 seconds

Archer : 13.5 / 1 second

(Crossbow can target a 1hp unit wasting 39 pierce damage and also crossbow not very usefull to "hit and run" because the 1st arrow is shot 3 seconds after the order.)

 

I hope this small feedback can be usefull.

What do you think about this ? @borg- @Feldfeld @ValihrAnt

Elephat stable can be reduced.

Stronger sieges don't necessarily have to be more expensive. It can be like a "Historically bonus".

Buildings by pop dont work.

I agree with teambonus. This will be worked on a25.

Theatron can be reduced.

Many other civilizations have archers, this does not mean that all must have "archery tradition" Some civilizations have unique technologies, and more for a25. 

Rome castra can no longer train siege, so it makes sense to train level two units and have high firepower. However it must be reworked in a25.

Dogs seems ok. Maybe some new upgrade for a25.

Crossbow has a high haccuracy. Must be better worked on a25.

Iber doesn't have a good variety of units mainly siege weapons, so it seems fair.

 

[Nescio]

Thank you for the feedback!

Currently A24 is under a feature freeze and a string freeze. This means only bug fixes and very simple changes (e.g. tweaking a cost) can go in, if it's deemed important enough. Everything else will have to wait until after the release.

2 hours ago, Edwarf said:

Elephant Stable are too expensive and too long to build compared to Arsenal :

Here's a patch for you: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3515

2 hours ago, Edwarf said:

Spying technologies are too expensive.

And for this too: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3516

2 hours ago, Edwarf said:

Litghthouse too expensive : it is just a big  outpost now. An outpost is the same for 60 wood instead of 200 stone + 200 metal.

A lighthouse is much better: it has a lot more health and resistance, is not affected by territory decay, does not have to be garrisoned, and reveals an area 4× as large as a garrisoned outpost (or 400× that of an ungarrisoned outpost).

2 hours ago, Edwarf said:

The number of dogs trainable should be set in function of the population limit or the number of stable, not to a constant (20).

This was discussed at https://code.wildfiregames.com/D2533

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Since when did the barracks provide experience when garrisoned?

[borg-]

31 minutes ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

Since when did the barracks provide experience when garrisoned?

Seems to me a good addition for Spartans in a25.

[Stan`]

@Thorfinn the Shallow Minded hgj @borg- it's already in. https://code.wildfiregames.com/rP23541