==[Concept Task]== Cimbrians, Ambrones, Teutons

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

 

Spoiler

 

 

Quote

The Ambrones (Ancient Greek: Ἄμβρωνες) were an ancient tribe mentioned by Roman authors. They are generally believed to have been a Germanic tribe from Jutland.

The Cimbri (Greek κίμβροι, Latin Cimbri) were an ancient tribe. They are generally believed to have been a Germanic tribe originating in Jutland, but Celtic influences have also been suggested.

Together with the Teutones and the Ambrones, they fought the Roman Republic between 113 and 101 BC. The Cimbri were initially successful, particularly at the Battle of Arausio, in which a large Roman army was routed, after which they raided large areas in Gaul and Hispania. In 101 BC, during an attempted invasion of Italy, the Cimbri were decisively defeated by Gaius Marius, and their king, Boiorix, was killed. Some of the surviving captives are reported to have been among the rebelling gladiators in the Third Servile War.

The Teutons (Latin: Teutones, Teutoni, Greek: "Τεύτονες") were an ancient tribe mentioned by Roman authors. They are generally classified as a Germanic tribe. The Teutons are best known for their participation in the Cimbrian War with the Roman Republic in the late 2nd century BC.

Quote

In the late second century BC, many of the Teutones (under their leader Teutobod) as well as the Cimbri and the Ambrones migrated from their original homes in southern Scandinavia and on the Jutland peninsula of Denmark, moving south and west to the Danube valley, where they encountered the expanding Roman Republic. The Teutones and Cimbri were recorded[by whom?] as passing west through Gaul before attacking Roman Italy.

After achieving decisive victories over the Romans at Noreia and Arausio in 105 BC, the Cimbri and Teutones divided their forces. Gaius Marius then defeated them separately in 102 BC and 101 BC respectively, ending the Cimbrian War. The defeat of the Teutones occurred at the Battle of Aquae Sextiae (near present-day Aix-en-Provence).

According to the writings of Valerius Maximus and Florus, the king of the Teutones, Teutobod, was taken in irons after the Teutones were defeated by the Romans. Under the conditions of the surrender, three hundred married women were to be handed over to the victorious Romans as concubines and slaves. When the matrons of the Teutones heard of this stipulation, they begged the consul that they might instead be allowed to minister in the temples of Ceres and Venus. When their request was denied, the Teutonic women slew their own children. The next morning, all the women were found dead in each other's arms, having strangled each other during the night. Their joint martyrdom passed into Roman legends of Teutonic fury.[5]

Some surviving captives reportedly participated as the rebelling gladiators in the Third Servile War of 73-71 BC.

According to some Roman accounts, sometime around 120–115 BC, the Cimbri left their original lands around the North Sea due to flooding (Strabo on the other hand, wrote that this was unlikely or impossible[4]) They supposedly journeyed to the south-east and were soon joined by their neighbours and possible relatives the Teutones. Together they defeated the Scordisci, along with the Boii, many of whom apparently joined them. In 113 BC they arrived on the Danube, in Noricum, home to the Roman-allied Taurisci. Unable to hold back these new, powerful invaders on their own, the Taurisci called on Rome for aid.

Quote

For a third of a century after Rome destroyed Carthage in 146 B.C., it faced no seriously threatening enemies in the Mediterranean region. Yet a major challenge was stirring in far-off Jutland. The Germanic Cimbri and Teutoni tribes abandoned their homes in Jutland and began a southward migration in 120-115 B.C. In 113 B.C., they arrived in Noricum, in present-day Austria.

The local tribe in Noricum, an ally of Rome, begged for help against the incursion. The next year, the consul Gnaeus Papirius Carbo marched a Roman army to drive away the intruders. Yet Carbo barely escaped with his life, and his legions were destroyed.

Declining to invade Italy, the Germans then turned west into Gaul, gathering allies such as the Celtic Ambrones. When the interlopers encroached on Rome’s allies in southern Gaul, the Romans in 105 B.C. decided to end the matter and dispatched two consuls, each leading an army.

Totaling 80,000 men and half again as many camp followers, the two armies comprised the largest Roman force assembled since the one Hannibal had annihilated at the Battle of Cannae in 216 B.C. – and this latter Roman force met an equally disastrous end. When the two consuls refused to combine their armies, the Romans were slaughtered at the Battle of Arausio on the Rhone River.

Rome panicked at the terror cimbricus. But inexplicably, the Cimbri marched into Spain on a great plunder raid while the Teutones remained in Gaul. Yet such was the emergency that the Romans overrode their constitution and elected General Gaius Marius, famed for conquering Numidia, to an unprecedented five continuous years as consul beginning in 104 B.C., with the mandate to create a new army.

I left this here to introduction post. as @Sundiata say , they can receive an treatment concept of nomadic raiders.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Characteristics. (WiP)

• Germanic peoples of the 2nd century BC.
• nomads at that time.
• use of mobile wagons as forts.

 

Nomadic 

Quote

the Cimbri marched into Spain on a great plunder raid while the Teutones remained in Gaul. Yet such was the emergency that the Romans overrode their constitution and elected General Gaius Marius, famed for conquering Numidia, to an unprecedented five continuous years as consul beginning in 104 B.C., with the mandate to create a new army.

 

Wagon Forts.

Quote

Armored war wagons, called Dongwu Che, were used in ancient China from the fifth century BC onward. These armored wagons were initially used to protect soldiers and sappers as they approached enemy walls and fortifications during siege operations. The Han also used them successfully in field battles to protect their soldiers from arrow fire during their campaigns in the northern steppe regions against the Xiong Nu.

There are also records of Celtic and Germanic tribes using wagon forts against the Romans. Often the wagons were deployed behind the battle lines to protect the tribe’s women, children and, animals and also served as a strong point to which the warriors could retreat if the battle turned against them. Wagons were used in this manner at the Battle of Vercellae in 101 BCE by Boiorix, chief of the Cimbri; at the Battle of Vosges in 58 BCE by Ariovistus, chief of the Suebi; and at the Battle of Watling Street in 61 CE by Boudica, queen of the Iceni. In these examples the war wagons were not used very effectively and at least in the case of the Battle of Watling Street, they impeded the Iceni retreat, which led to a general massacre.

At the Battle of Adrianople in 378, the Goths set up their camp on top of a hill, which was encircled by their wagons. They successfully defended this wagon fort against their Roman enemies until the Gothic cavalry, which had been out foraging, arrived to strike the Romans in the rear. At the Battle of Mohi in 1241, the Hungarians constructed a fortified camp against the Mongols using a ring of wagons.

http://www.medievalists.net/2019/01/wagenberg-war-wagons/

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I know the "packing" stuff for nomads is sexy and all, but after experimenting with this a lot in Atlas, I'm starting to think "packing" civs are kind of tedious to use. In DE I'm thinking of just making "nomadic" civs have these features:

• Buildings half cost, strength, and build time.
• No territory effects whatsoever
• Egalitarian units (male and female mix)
• Looting and Capturing bonuses
• "Ox Cart" dropsite
• Cavalry focus

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

wrong topic...

 

Edited April 21, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

.

• No territory effects whatsoever

 

don't forget edit each building to work that way i remember see some Marvels and outpost loss ownership.

[av93]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I know the "packing" stuff for nomads is sexy and all, but after experimenting with this a lot in Atlas, I'm starting to think "packing" civs are kind of tedious to use. In DE I'm thinking of just making "nomadic" civs have these features:

• Buildings half cost, strength, and build time.
• No territory effects whatsoever
• Egalitarian units (male and female mix)
• Looting and Capturing bonuses
• "Ox Cart" dropsite
• Cavalry focus

 

I think that is the kind of features that sounds great on paper, but in terms on gameplay doesn't work at all.

Interesting topic Lion. Never thought that some "germanic" people fought Rome so early.

What about a generic "Germanic" civ that represents the Cimbri/ Teutones/Ambrones alliance? 

[Lion.Kanzen]

we dont have many visual art from these concept of wagons.

and the good idea how works is from late Middle Ages.

this happens before in Adrianople. 

https://youtu.be/MR3ttTe5a0k?t=232

probably we are familiarized with this.

Spoiler

 

Quote

Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed; now sword in hand these priestesses would meet with the prisoners of war throughout the camp, and having first crowned them with wreaths would lead them to a brazen vessel of about twenty amphorae; and they had a raised platform which the priestess would mount, and then, bending over the kettle, would cut the throat of each prisoner after he had been lifted up; and from the blood that poured forth into the vessel some of the priestesses would draw a prophecy, while still others would split open the body and from an inspection of the entrails would utter a prophecy of victory for their own people; and during the battles they would beat on the hides that were stretched over the wicker-bodies of the wagons and in this way produce an unearthly noise.

— Strabo, Geographica 7.2.3, trans. H.L. Jones

second text is from Germanic invasions. but take care the Cimbrian wars.

https://books.google.hn/books?id=-PXtAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA27&lpg=PA27&dq=cimbri+fort++wagon&source=bl&ots=6jzMA-NwYh&sig=ACfU3U2cPd1ZIDYuWGtlkjkvV_wHOteSug&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi9vJT8p-LhAhUJS6wKHRgzD2AQ6AEwDXoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=wagons&f=false

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

13 minutes ago, av93 said:

I think that is the kind of features that sounds great on paper, but in terms on gameplay doesn't work at all.

 

Which part? The packing stuff or my counter-solution?

[av93]

20 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Which part? The packing stuff or my counter-solution?

Sorry, my fault. The packing stuff, as you said.

AoE3 Sioux feels enough nomad with their concept: weak buildings, not defenses at all, fast and hard hitting mobile units.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, av93 said:

What about a generic "Germanic" civ that represents the Cimbri/ Teutones/Ambrones alliance?

let me confirm because I read something similar an hour ago.

Their goals: Land

Quote

After the defeat of Carbo, the Cimbri crossed the Rhine and threatened territory belonging to the Roman allied Allobroges. Tribal leaders attempted to negotiate land rights for their people, but all such requests were denied. By 109 BC, the Romans sent another force under the Consul Marcus Junius Silanus but again were soundly defeated, losing as many as 30,000 men. The Cimbri, however, not showing any desire to invade or cause trouble, went about their own business, looking for land in Gaul. In 107 BC another Roman army under the command of Longinus met up with the Cimbri near modern Tolosa. In addition to fresh recruits Longinus also led the veterans of Metellus' army from Africa, whose ultimate defeat along with the earlier losses, forced Marius to recruit from the Roman head count. Longinus was initially successful, but was eventually caught in an ambush. Killed in action, his subordinate, Laenas was forced to surrender his position and return to Rome with fewer than 4,000 survivors.

Quote

Just as Marius was coming to power as Consul in 107 BC, a major migration by Germanic (perhaps Celtic) Cimbri was causing consternation along Rome's northern frontier. Apparently under threat of starvation from poor harvests and from external threats by other tribes, the Cimbri were on the move looking for new, more promising land. By 113 BC, the Germanics made their first appearance in Roman written history. These movements, and associated great losses in the Roman army stood as the main reason for Marius' military reforms, and not some great advocacy for the plebes, as the people of the time generally believed.

There is some evidence that the Germanics wanted little to do with the Romans, and that they simply sought safe passage to better lands. Others argue that they were an aggressive army looking for plunder. The Roman generals of the time, ambitious and politically motivated in a time of great change and opportunity for personal glory. [...]

As if the crisis were not dire enough, the following two years were more disastrous still. In 106 BC, Quintus Servilius Caepio marched a fresh army towards Tolosa to enact revenge. When he arrived he was sidetracked by the discovery of the infamous 'Gold of Tolosa', a vast treasure. Winning a minor engagement, he let the Germanics move off, while he secured the treasure and prepared it to be returned to Rome. While en route, it 'mysteriously' disappeared, and the Caepio family suddenly became very wealthy and was the target of suspicion and accusations from that point on.

very normal those ambitious commanders around this timeframe. same happens with Yugurtine wars in Numidia. Gaius Sallustius write about Yugurtine War and  use history as a vehicle for his judgement on the slow destruction of Roman morality and politics.

 

Quote

Spoiler

"There were at that time in our army several subjects (of little account and also nobles) who put wealth before the good and honest; people of party and authority in Rome, famous for that among the confederates, rather than for their virtue. They inflamed Jugurta's high spirits, promising him that if Micipsa was missing, he would be his only successor in Numidian empire, both for his great value and because in Rome everything was sold. But after Numantia had been destroyed, Publius Scipio decided to dismiss the auxiliary troops and return to Rome, having magnificently given and praised Yugurta in the presence of all, separated him and brought him to his tent and there secretly warned him "not to cultivate the friendship of the Roman people by means of particulars, but in body, neither should he be accustomed to give privately to any man, who was not without risk bought from a few what belonged to many, and that if he continued to do good, as until then, the glory and kingdom of his own would come into his hands; But if he hastened too fast, his own riches would precipitate him".-Gaius Sallustius

https://pdfbooks.co.za/library/SALLUST-CONSPIRACY_OF_CATILINE_AND_THE_JURGURTHINE_WAR.pdf

 

Quote

While he sat idle, the Senate was apparently unsatisfied with Caepio's performance and authorized another army to be raised. This time, a force of over 6 legions was hastily prepared under Mallius Maximus, and he was given imperium over both armies. He marched to join Caepio, but Caepio, feeling that Mallius was inferior in social position, refused to obey or join his command. Bitter in-fighting between the two men, and armies, would prove to be disastrous. In 105 BC, the Cimbri returned and came across the Romans arranged in two separate camps, with two full armies functioning completely independent of one another. At the battle of Aurasio (modern Orange), the Cimbri crushed both Roman armies, killing nearly 80,000 men while sustaining minimal losses of their own.

Despite this monumental victory, and the opening of the doorway to invade Italy, the Cimbri were still only interested in finding new land. They then divided their force, with some remaining in southern Gaul, but with the bulk moving on towards the Pyrenees and Spain. Bitter resistance by Celtibereans in Spain would eventually force the Germanics to return, but for the time being, Rome was granted a brief respite.

t was at this time that the opportunistic Marius returned to Rome to celebrate his triumph over Jugurtha. Rome, feeling the pinch of several successful military disasters, essentially granted complete military authority to Marius. In a breach of the Roman Republican constitution, 104 BC saw his election as Consul for the second time in only a few short years. The law required at least 10 years intervals between elections as Consul, but his election was proof of the faith that both the Senate and the people had in Marius' ability. A generally unpopular figure among the Senate, he was elected to an unprecedented 5 straight terms as Consul from 104 to 100 BC in order to deal with the Germanic threat.

In 104 BC however, the Cimbri had moved on, and Marius spent the time reforming his legions, building roads and generally improving the condition of the provincial public works. Within 2 years, the Cimbri had joined up with more Germanics, including the Teutons, Helvetii and Ambrones. Failing to win new land in Spain from the Celts, they returned to what they may have thought would be easier adversaries in the Romans. In 102 BC, the Cimbri moved around the Alps to the eastern side of Italy preparing to invade. The Teutones moved to the west and followed the Alps south along the coast into Italy. Marius caught the Teutones and Ambrones at the battle of Aquae Sextiae late in the year 102 BC. This time, under competent Roman command, the Germanics were annihilated, and the Romans could focus on their other enemy, the Cimbri.

By early 101 BC, the Cimbri moved down from the Alps and started to press into eastern Italy. An army, technically under the command of Q. Lutatius Catulus, but practically led by Marius' subordinate Sulla, met the Cimbri at Vercellae. Again, the Germanic invaders were crushed with losses approaching 100,000. Two great Germanic tribes were nearly routed completely from historical existence, and the three Roman commanders bickered over who could claim the victory. In the end, Marius shared a joint triumph with Catulus, but it was Marius who was heaped with the credit by the Roman people, and he was named the 'savior of Rome'. Perhaps, even more significant than the victory, was the political and personal impact. While Marius, without an enemy to fight, would soon prove his inability as a politician, the personal rivalry between Marius and Sulla grew ever more fractured.

https://www.unrv.com/empire/cimbri-teutons.php

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Conquer or Die - The Elite of Cimbrii.

Quote

Marius was fortunate to catch the Teutones and the Ambrones after the Cimbri had departed, yet his army still faced great odds since the enemy force numbered 120,000 warriors. He kept his men in their fortified camp, where they repulsed a German attack. The enemy then decided to bypass the camp and march into Italy.

The Germanic horde took six days to march by, and its troops taunted the Romans, shouting, “Do you have any messages for your wives? After all, we’ll soon be with them!” Marius broke camp and followed the enemy to Aquae Sextiae, where he built another fortified camp. Roman slaves drawing water from the river provoked the Ambrones to attack. Marius then launched his soldiers downhill at the Ambrones and crushed them at the river.

Two days later, Marius led his army to confront the Teutones while secretly placing 3,000 Romans in a nearby woods. The Germans filled the plain and charged up the hill at the Romans, who met them with a javelin storm and then drew their swords. As Marius’ men forced back the Teutones, his hidden troops attacked at the enemy’s rear.

The Teutones panicked and retreated to their camp, with the pursuing Romans inflicting great slaughter. The Teutones’ king, Teutobod, and many of the survivors surrendered. The Greek biographer Plutarch reported that over 100,000 were killed or captured, and that in subsequent years the soil, enriched with the rotted flesh of so many, yielded unprecedented bounty.

As the Teutones met their destruction, the Cimbri crossed the Alps. Since Roman consul Quintus Lutatius Catalus had withdrawn his garrisons from the passes, the Cimbri marched through an undefended northern Italy. When they finally confronted Catalus’ men, the Roman troops fled. Meanwhile, Marius returned to Rome and then marched his army to join Catalus’ soldiers. Together, the two armies numbered over 50,000 men in eight legions.

The Cimbri had delayed their offensive believing the Teutones would soon join them. However, Marius told them that they need not worry about their Teutone brothers, saying, “They already have land, and they’ll keep it forever; it was a gift from us.” He then brought out Teutobod in chains. The Cimbri thereupon demanded that Marius set a time and place for battle, and he designated the Raudine Plain at Vercellae near the confluence of the Po and Sesia rivers.

As the Cimbri emerged from their camp, they generated a huge dust cloud that obscured the size of their force – thereby preserving the Romans’ morale, since Marius’ soldiers could not see how greatly they were outnumbered. The Cimbri sent a cavalry force to trap the Romans, but it was defeated by the Roman cavalry under Catulus’ legate, Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Indeed, thanks to Sulla, it was the Cimbri who were eventually trapped and crushed by Roman cavalry.

Marius then ordered that for each Roman javelin, one of the two iron pins affixing the point to the shaft be replaced with a wooden dowel that would break upon impact. When the javelins connected with the opponents’ shields during battle, the weight of the shafts bent the javelins, which then could not be withdrawn and thrown back at the Romans. The heaviness of the embedded javelins eventually forced the Cimbri to throw away their shields.

The best of the Cimbri warriors in the front rank chained themselves together in resolve to conquer or die; the Romans assisted them in the latter. Sulla’s cavalry attack sowed panic, and the enemy survivors fled to their camp with the Romans in pursuit. Enough of the Cimbri survived to yield 60,000 prisoners, but twice as many of their dead littered the field.

Marius returned to Rome for his well-deserved triumph. However, at the time, no one realized that his victory would lead to the destruction of the Roman republic. By recruiting landless men, Marius, and later Sulla and then Julius Caesar, created armies beholden only to them and not to the Roman state. The institutions of the republic could not withstand this irresistible force unleashed upon them. Strong and violent men fought over the body of Rome for the next 60 years, and out of the ashes of the republic emerged the Roman Empire.

https://www.historynet.com/cimbrian-war-113-101-b-c.htm

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

Quote

There is very little information about who the Cimbri where — their beliefs, religion, culture, technology, etc. The few scraps we have suggest a culture that would be largely unrecognizable to anyone in Europe today:

It is reported that the Cimbri had a peculiar custom. They were accompanied in their expeditions by their wives; these were followed by hoary-headed priestesses, clad in white, with cloaks of carbasus fastened on with clasps, girt with brazen girdles, and bare-footed. These individuals, bearing drawn swords, went to meet the captives throughout the camp, and, having crowned them, led them to a brazen vessel containing about 20 amphoræ, and placed on a raised platform, which one of the priestesses having ascended, and holding the prisoner above the vessel, cut his throat; then, from the manner in which the blood flowed into the vessel, some drew certain divinations; while others, having opened the corpse, and inspected the entrails, prophesied victory to their army. In battle too they beat skins stretched on the wicker sides of chariots, which produces a stunning noise — Strabo Chapter II.III

• the Cimbri had females lead some religious rites
• women traveled with military operations
• despite being nomadic, they brought material culture like large ceramics and had metalworking technology, in addition to chariots
• there was a connection between status and sacrificeI 

 

I doubt very much about this even the war chariots, they could be Celts who joined.

Quote

Romans were fascinated by the idea of human sacrifice, and made repeated references to alleged sacrificial rites by the Celts that have no present-day archaeological evidence. The assumed violence of the Cimbri may be a reflection of the the threat they posed to the Romans. That said, archaeologically the occupation of the Cimbri in Jutland may overlap with the exceptionally-preserved peatbog burials, including Grauballe Man, who had his throat slit in a manner consistent with Strabo’s description of a bloodletting ritual.

this other needs another more archeological information.

Quote

As an example of our ignorance of the Cimbri — no one knows if they were Celtic or German (more properly, proto-Germanic). The scant details we have may point to a Celtic group. Pliny the Elder highlights their word for the Baltic:

Philemon again says that it is called Morimarusa or the “Dead Sea” by the Cimbri, as far as the Promontory of Rubeas, beyond which it has the name of the Cronian Sea — Pliny the Elder, IV.27

here the most controversial point were @Genava55 can participate.

Quote

This name is consistent with modern Celtic languages like Welsh — marwmeans death and môr means sea. But, place names famously don’t predict where current populations live. The Danube and Dneiper rivers both have Persian names, despite the fact that Slavic and Germanic speaking people live by them now. I am from ‘Wyoming’, but I and most everyone else there speaks English. A stronger argument could be made that the name Cimbri is itself Celtic — the Welsh name for themselves is the Cymry.

Arguments for the Cimbri being a Germanic/proto-Germanic speaking group is much more sparse, and based on its geographic location more than anything. Though Plutarch attributes the Cimbri to the German peoples.

They themselves, indeed, had not had intercourse with other peoples, and had traversed a great stretch of country, so that it could not be ascertained what people it was nor whence they had set out, thus to descend upon Gaul and Italy like a cloud. The most prevalent conjecture was that they were some of the German peoples which extended as far as the northern ocean, a conjecture based on their great stature, their light-blue eyes, and the fact that the Germans call robbers Cimbri. Plutarch Marius 11.3

Plutarch also speculates that the Cimbri could be a combined Gaullic (Celtic) and Scythian tribe, though this is without any evidence, linguistic or otherwise. Though as we will discuss later during the Migration Period, there is a good reason to be suspicious of any ancestral linguistic zone. One interesting possibility is the present distribution of languages — there is a language called Cimbrian spoken today in northern Italy, and it is Germanic (Bavarian). While the region it is spoken in could have plausibly been influenced by the Cimbrian migration of 113–101 B.C., it likely reflects later migrations by Bavarians or even Lombards.

The Cimbri were accompanied by the Teutones and Ambrones. The Ambrones is a distinctively Celtic name, so there is little debate about their linguistic affiliation. The Teutones, while a name distinctively associated with a Germanic name today, may also be Celtic. But there is even less information available for them.

These groups migrated south sometime before 113 B.C., when they showed up on the Danube. They fought with local Celtic groups, including the Boi, as they continued moving south into Noricum (modern-day Austria and Slovenia). There, they occupied the territory of the Taurisci, who quickly recognized that they needed the help of Rome, of whom they were clients, to dispel. The Romans sent Gnaeus Papirius Carbo, then Consul, with an army of 30,000 in 112 B.C. Carbo demanded that the Cimbri and Teutones leave. The fearsome reputation of the Romans preceded them, and the migrating tribes complied.

Carbo then made a potentially-history altering mistake — he decided to attack the tribes anyway. As Rome celebrated its victorious generals with triumphs, he would have been motivated to become the conquerer of a hitherto unknown people. Roman guides, sent ostensibly to lead them out of Noricum, steered them toward an ambush near Noreia. It is not clear what happened in the battle, but only a small fraction of Romans returned from it, including Carbo. For losing something like 25,000 troops, Carbo was impeached as Consul. Rome now had a deadly enemy at its northern borders capable of delivering defeats that the Romans had not seen since Hannibal. Yet the Cimbrian threat seemed to evaporate, the tribes moved into Gaul. [...]

the fight against the Cimbrians would be in unknown hostile territory against a nebulous group of migrants capable of delivering a significant defeat. Furthermore, the war against Jugurtha, for the populares, offered a powerful political statement against the moneyed patricians of the Senate, who would have prefered the Jugurtha situation disappear. The decision fell upon a newly elected consul following Carbo, Lucius Calpurnius Bestia, who decided to attack Numidia. Jugurtha quickly sued for peace, obtaining highly favorable terms after several bribes. This would end up being a miscalculation by Jugurtha — Bestia would go home rich and reviled by the populares who controlled the ability to send other possibly less corruptible forces his way. But in the short term, Jugurtha’s approach was successful, however public. A Tribune of the Plebs, Gaius Memmius (? — 100 B.C.), admonished the Senators and Consuls who had accepted bribes, and in a speech documented by Sallust, lays bare the populares-optimates division of his time.

later again Romans Optimates  put immoral commanders. and Sallust/Sallustius spoke very lovely words that enjoy.

Quote

I am ashamed to speak of how during the past fifteen years you have been the sport of a few men’s insolence; how shamefully your defenders have perished unavenged; how your own spirits have been so demoralized because of weakness and cowardice that you do not rise even now, when your enemies are in your power, but still fear those in whom you ought to inspire fear. But although conditions are such, yet my spirit prompts me to brave the power of this faction. At least, I shall make use of the freedom of speech which is my inheritance from my father; but whether I shall do so in vain or to good purpose lies in your hands, my countrymen. I do not urge you to take up arms against your oppressors, as your fathers often did; there is no need of violence, none of secession. They must go to ruin their own way. After the murder of Tiberius Gracchus, whom they accused of trying to make himself king, prosecutions were instituted against the Roman commons. Again, after Gaius Gracchus and Marcus Fulvius were slain, many men of your order suffered death in the dungeon. In both cases bloodshed was ended, not by law, but by the caprice of the victors. — Sallust 31

a good campaing with interesting world building was Roman first mission from Empire Earth.

Spoiler

Quote

Thus the peace for which they had longed in time of adversity, after they had gained it proved to be more cruel and bitter than adversity itself. For the nobles began to abuse their position and the people their liberty, and every man for himself robbed, pillaged, and plundered. Thus the community was split into two parties, and between these the state was torn to pieces. But the nobles had the more powerful organization, while the strength of the commons was less effective because it was incompact and divided among many. Affairs at home and in the field were managed according to the will of a few men, in whose hands were the treasury, the provinces, public offices, glory and triumphs. The people were burdened with military service and poverty. The generals divided the spoils of war with a few friends. Meanwhile the parents or little children of the soldiers, if they had a powerful neighbour, were driven from their homes. Thus, by the side of power, greed arose, unlimited and unrestrained, violated and devastated everything, respected nothing, and held nothing sacred, until it finally brought about its own downfall. For as soon as nobles were found who preferred true glory to unjust power, the state began to be disturbed and civil dissension to arise like an upheaval of the earth. — Sallust

During this period of chaos, Metallus sent Marius back to Rome after his repeated requests for a furlough, likely as it was one less thing to worry about. Marius had prepped his return to Rome quite well, as the negative dispatches about Metallus had soured Rome on the high-born commander. By contrast, Marius, a man of the people, ran for Consul to continue the people’s fight against the foreign despot who had bribed the wealthy Senators of Rome. Marius boasted that if he was given the Consulship, he would be able to take Jugurtha in a matter of days. Marius won the Consulship of 107 B.C. by large majorities, alongside a largely symbolic vote by the Senate to keep the Numidian war with Metallus. With Marius, Lucius Cassius Longinus was also elected to the consulship. While Marius would take over Metallus’ charge in Numidia, Cassius would venture to the north to verify the security of the northern frontier from the Cimbri and Teutones and punish the Tigurini.

Cassius met the Tigurini in Galla Narbonensis, near the present-day Bordeaux. There, the Tigurini ambushed his forces, killing most of his troops as well as Cassius himself. While not a large battle, the death of a consul, particularly one so recently elected, was a cause for great alarm. Particularly as the other consul was occupied to the south.

these other of these dramatic Roman stories never told by media.

Quote

Marius, however, would take complete credit for ending the war, despite Sulla’s critical (and risky) decisions which led to Jugurtha’s capture. Sulla would seethe at the credit given to Marius for the war. As Plutarch reports:

This was the first seed of that bitter and incurable hatred between Marius and Sulla, which nearly brought Rome to ruin. For many wished Sulla to have the glory of the affair because they hated Marius, and Sulla himself had a seal-ring made, which he used to wear, on which was engraved the surrender of Jugurtha to him by Bocchus. By constantly using this ring Sulla provoked Marius, who was an ambitious man, loath to share his glory with another, and quarrelsome. And the enemies of Marius gave Sulla most encouragement, by attributing the first and greatest successes of the war to Metellus, but the last, and the termination of it, to Sulla, so that the people might cease admiring Marius and giving him their chief allegiance. (Plutarch: Marius 10.5)

The Cimbri Return

The normal course of events would have been as follows: Marius would return from the Jugurthine Wars, with a host of political allies and rivals. His consulship would have expired at the years end, but he would have enjoyed a triumph through Rome to celebrate his military achievements. After this, the next generation of leadership, represented by Sulla, would begin to make their mark as Marius enjoyed cultivating his own clients. This would have been the rough course of events, had the Cimbri and Teutones not reappeared in Roman territory.

The Romans could have been excused for not understanding the threat in the North. The Battle of Noreia in 109 B.C. had been a crushing defeat with 25,000 lost, but the battles since then had not been decisive, though in 107 B.C. an ambush claimed the life of a Consul, Cassius. The Jugurthine War, by contrast, was not an existential conflict, but rather a war that allowed aspiring Romans to demonstrate their heroism against a villain. It is easier to fight a villain than a nebulous population migration. And, the Cimbri had thus far demonstrated the ability to a) crush a Roman force and b) wander aimlessly about the northern frontier. Why would any Roman risk his life, like Cassius, for so dangerous a charge and so little a reward? The Cimbri were not wealthy like Jugurtha.

Nonetheless, Cassius had died, and a response was needed. The reward now would be renewing Rome’s threats to the north. So long as Rome suffered defeats, it signaled to other Celtic and proto-Germanic tribes that it was open season in Roman territory. Following Consular elections in 105 B.C., Publius Rutilius Rufus and Quintus Servilius Caepio, from the elite of Rome, were elected. Together they assembled a massive Roman army the likes of which had not been seen since the second Punic War — an army with as many as 120,000 men. Rufus delegated his charge to Gnaeus Mallius Maximus, a novus homo like Marius. However, the army was not as strong as it might have at first seemed — Maximus and Caepio despised each other. Their relationship was a microcosm of the partisanship within Rome that drove the Jugurthine War — Maximus was from a common background, Caepio from a storied one. Technically, Maximus was the leader, but Caepio refused to take orders from someone without noble ancestry.

...

Quote

In any case, this was not the omen that the Romans wanted before heading into battle. At Aurasio, near present-day Orange, the joint army came to the Rhone river and set up camp — on both sides. Caepio refused to camp with Maximus. To spread his forces, Caepio sent his legate, Marcus Aurelius Scaurus, to set up a camp for the calvary some 30 miles away. Far from the main body of the forces, Scaurus would be the first to encounter the Cimbri and Teutones. Without much of a fight, the Cimbri annihilated the cavalry and took Scaurus prisoner to meet their king, Boiorix. Scaurus refused to surrender; for this, Boiorix had Scaurus burnt alive slowly in a wicker cage.

[...]

Maximus’ armies were sandwiched between the seized Caepio camp, and the Rhone. The Cimbri marched on them, and Maximus’ force disintegrated with many jumping to their deaths in the river. The total Roman forces lost ranged between 80,000 and 120,000 — possibly twice as severe as Hannibal’s legendary defeat of the Romans at Cannae.

Soon, however, all this envy and hatred and slander of Marius was removed and dissipated by the peril which threatened Italy from the west, as soon as the state felt the need of a great general and looked about for a helmsman whom she might employ to save her from so great a deluge of war. Then the people would have nothing to do with anyone of high birth or of a wealthy house who offered himself at the consular elections, but proclaimed Marius consul in spite of his absence from the city. For no sooner had word been brought to the people of the capture of Jugurtha than the reports about the Teutones and Cimbri fell upon their ears. What these reports said about the numbers and strength of the invading hosts was disbelieved at first, but afterwards it was found to be short of the truth. For three hundred thousand armed fighting men were advancing, and much larger hordes of women and children were said to accompany them, in quest of land to support so vast a multitude, and of cities in which to settle and live, just as the Gauls before them, as they learned, had wrested the best part of Italy from the Tyrrhenians and now occupied it. Plutarch Marius 11.1–2

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

Panicked, the Romans elected Marius consul — illegally — for a second term in his absence from the city. They were not ready to let go of their popular soldier’s general yet. Marius had endeared himself to the population by eating with his troops, despite being their commander. His manners were rude and distinctly non-patrician. He was a different hero for Rome. And not only was he elected consul for the second time in a row, but he also received a triumph. Following him through the streets of Rome was Jugurtha, stripped of his royal robes (and golden earrings) was thrown naked into a prison where he would starve to death.

Immediately after the triumph, Marius met with Senators (first in his triumphal robes, then seeing their displeasure, he changed to the standard garments). The urgency of the plans would be alleviated somewhat as the Cimbri and Teutones did not press their advantage, and instead moved to Spain. The movements of the Cimbri were almost impossible for Romans to understand — why not march on Rome after destroying its main defenses? But the Cimbri weren’t a conquering army, but rather a migrating people more focused on food than on conquest.

Marian Reforms

Spoiler

 

The crises of the moment, and the stature of Marius, made sweeping transformations possible to the Roman military and economy. It was an opportunity Marius would not let go to waste. Marius did not come from nobility, and had risen through the ranks of the Roman military through a combination of skill, persistence, and manipulation. He understood the central crises of the Roman Republic as much as Tiberias and Gaius Gracchus had a generation earlier. The Republic’s rapid expansion was making patricians rich while keeping soldiers from their farms and driving them into poverty. The recent military disasters following battle with the Cimbri, namely Aurasio, had resulted in hundreds of thousands of soldiers dying. These were soldiers who had provisioned themselves and left their farms to fight for the Republic. Their deaths was not only a military blow, but an economic one as well. In parallel, the Jugurthine War, like other wars of conquest that had preceded it, had enriched the patricians despite the hardships imposed on soldiers kept from their farms for years.

Rome’s rapid rise was not without defeat — Hannibal had delivered many sequential defeats a century earlier. But Rome had an ability to bounce back that allowed it to outlast its competitors. Aurasio erased that advantage — the military that Rome had build was not capable of facing this threat. At the same time, more and more farmers were going bankrupt as wealthy patricians bought up their land. Rome had reached the breaking point where it simply did not have an army that could deal with the threat at hand. It was the first time since the Punic wars that Rome would need to re-invent itself to win, and that is precisely what Marius set out to do.

The Roman military was formed by farmers who had to own a certain amount of land, pay taxes, and be able to arm themselves. The relative wealth of the farmer was directly related to his placement into the legions. This was the system that Marius tore apart. Marius eliminated the land ownership requirement to serve in the army. These were the capite censi, the head count, the poor landless masses who had no other opportunities. This would immediately solve the immediate problem of replenishing the ranks after the disaster at Aurasio. However, these men, unlike the old wealth-based military, would be unable to provision themselves for battle. Marius had the state of Rome provide the armor and weapons. With one fell swoop, Marius had solved the military crises and helped address a major economic problem at the same time. Rome’s greatest strength — the ability to suffer a defeat and persist — would only grow from here.

Unlike the earlier armies that had to be raised by each consul, each soldier was expected to serve, in Marius’ time, 16 years in the service. In effect, Marius had created a standing volunteer army. There would be no need to raise a new army each time disaster struck — there would always be tens of thousands of men at arms able to act on immediate threats. The new army would also be required to pack in food and camping gear as well — this would reduce the baggage trains and enable more rapid military operations.

Marius would add one additional reform to the army, one that bring closure to the Gracchi brothers. Included in the benefits for serving in the Roman military was the promise of a land grant following completion of a term. This land would be in any conquered territories the soldier had fought in. This was, in essence, the land reform that the Gracchi had sought, though there was one difference that would change the course of world history. The Gracchi wanted the state to provide the land and pension to its soldiers; Marius would have the general assume that responsibility. Thus, loyalty would be directed not to the Roman Republic, but to the individual general. The consequences of this arrangement were not appreciated at the time, but within years would bring Rome to a decades-long civil war that would ultimately destroy the Republic.

 

.

this part is more Roman than Cimbrii. but we can use our eyecandy Marian troops here.

 

Quote

the Ambrones was also the ancestral name of the Ligurians. At the onset of the fighting, both sides chanted the name to claim it as their own. The Ligurians had pushed the Ambrones into the river by time the main Roman force arrived, and much of the Ambrones force was cut down trying to flee. The Ambrones were not themselves an army like the Romans, but instead a migratory city. Women and children were caught up in this fighting.

Quote

Quintus Lutatius Catulus (149–87 B.C.). At around the same time Marius battled the Teutones, the Cimbri arrived to cross the Alps and move into northern Italy. Upon seeing the enemy, Catulus retreated past the Alps and into northern Italy to fight them on flat ground. He fortified himself behind the Po river and immediately constructed forts to defend both banks. The Cimbri settled upstream, and began to fell forests to send huge timbers to crash into the forts built by the Romans. The army grew frightened, and Catulus took the standard and marched at the head of the retreat, so that their dishonor would be his own.

They are very rude strongman, that can fight in snow.

Quote

the Cimbri were used to fighting in colder, northern climates and were succumbing to heat exhaustion. Catulus’ forces managed to push the Cimbri back and get them to flee from the Roman lines. From this point, as the Cimbri broke into a panicked run, the most horrifying detail of the battle emerges.

Quote

The greatest number and the best fighters of the enemy were cut to pieces on the spot; for to prevent their ranks from being broken, those who fought in front were bound fast to one another with long chains which were passed through their belts. The fugitives, however, were driven back to their entrenchments, where the Romans beheld a most tragic spectacle. The women, in black garments, stood at the waggons and slew the fugitives — their husbands or brothers or fathers, then strangled their little children and cast them beneath the wheels of the waggons or the feet of the cattle, and then cut their own throats. It is said that one woman hung dangling from the tip of a waggon-pole, with her children tied to either ankle; while the men, for lack of trees, fastened themselves by the neck to the horns of the cattle, or to their legs, then plied the goad, and were dragged or trampled to death as the cattle dashed away. Nevertheless, in spite of such self-destruction, more than sixty thousand were taken prisoners; and those who fell were said to have been twice that number. Plutarch Marius 27.1–3

 Aftermath.

Quote

 

When one takes stock of the Cimbri and Teutones, there are a number of features which differentiate them from Rome’s traditional enemies. First, they move in strategically incomprehensible ways. The Cimbri had at least two opportunities to march on Rome and choke out the Roman Republic, and in both cases went the opposite way following decisive victories. Second, the fighting forces were never separated from the women and children. Third, negotiations, when they did take place, focused on resettlement in fertile land. The last major opponent of Rome, that of Hannibal, brought a war focused on historical grievance. The Cimbri and the Teutones had no deep disagreement with the Romans — their interactions with them appear to be incidental to other goals. The simplest interpretation of the Cimbri and Teutones is that they were a migrating band of people in search of more reliable food sources, many such bands likely had existed in prehistory. The difference was that they stumbled across a Roman Republic on the rise.

Losing the Peace

Upon the victory over the Cimbri on the banks of the Po river, Marius did two things to exacerbate the tensions in the Roman Republic that had lie dormant during the existential threat. The first was the most brazen; he called for all allied Italian soldiers to be citizens of Rome. The bravery of people like the Ligurians should, in his eyes, be as qualifying for citizenship as the more passive act of being born in Rome. The notion of citizenship of the allies had been a long topic of conversation, but this was the first act which legitimized the position. To the Italian allies, it gave an attainable taste of the Roman world’s wealth.

 

Spoiler

The second action was less bombastic, but similarly consequential. To Sulla and Catalus’ dismay, Marius claimed credit for the victory on the field of battle. Allegedly, the fighting over this point broke down to whose javelinas were most commonly found in the corpses of the Cimbri. Marius, due to earlier success and raw rank, won the argument to the Roman people. Nonetheless, Marius and Catalus would share a joint triumph after defeating the Cimbri completely. To the dismay of traditionalists like Catalus and patricians like Sulla, Marius sought another term for consul despite the victory over the Cimbri and Teutones. This time, he would face Metallus, his former commander in Numidia, for the office. Proving that, if nothing else, history has a deep sense of irony, Marius proceeded to buy the votes he needed to secure a sixth consulship. Still fearful of Metallus after his victory, Marius and his allies found a way to compel him to exile, where he lived the rest of his life outside Rome.

Marius’ military reforms had, in essence, become the land reforms of the Gracchi brothers realized. The longstanding dispute between the poor and the rich had been resolved by Marius, and Marius enjoyed a wide base of support. To most of the population, Marius was the hero of both the Jugurthine War and the savior of the Republic from the Cimbri. He had carte blanche to pursue whatever agenda he wanted, and they didn’t mind him targeting wealthier citizens like Metallus all that much.

The patricians and other influential families, on the other hand, were scandalized by Marius. They saw themselves as traditionalists, though admittedly they had every reason to favor ancient traditions that had benefited them handsomely. Leading men like Catulus and Sulla, who arguably had delivered the critical victories that won both wars, watched sidelined as a populare with no manners flouted tradition and consolidated power.

Climate, the Cimbri, and the Civil Wars

In 105 B.C., facing the existential threat of the dual invasions of north Italy by the Cimbri and the Teutones, Marius reformed the military to replenish the legions and counter the threat. While these reforms would inarguably save the Republic at the time, they laid the groundwork for its collapse. In Marius’ own lifetime he saw his reforms give the ability for one Roman general and rival, Sulla, to march on the city. By transforming an army of farmers into, essentially, a mercenary army dependent on the fortunes of its general, he took power away from the state and handed it to the judgement of a few individual commanders.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

The migration of the Cimbri and Teutones precipitated these consequential changes that would ultimately destroy the Roman Republic. And, as I argued in my 2017 paper, that migration was brought about by changes in the North Atlantic Oscillation that led to sequential droughts in the Jutland peninsula, which ancient authors like Augustus and Strabo posit was the homeland of these people.

Quote

The NAO reconstruction, with historical context. First — NAO. Second, Bayesian posterior probabilities for change points (e.g. when stuff really changed) , third, the records of droughts, fourth, the records of famine. The grey lines indicate historical migration events. source

The Cimbrian War followed the first major NAO+ change in Rome’s history. At the time of the migrations, the NAO index is consistent with a widespread drought not just in the Jutland peninsula, but throughout north-central Europe and Scandinavia.

later their article try politics today so, I will omit this part. because change climate and migrations...

Cimbri women slaughtering themselves and their children after defeat. source

https://medium.com/@BLeeDrake/climate-and-the-collapse-of-the-roman-empire-part-3a-the-cimbrian-war-e0fa4e6b804e 

[Lion.Kanzen]

Troops and basic faction game info.

Emblems.

Spoiler

 

Spoiler

http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf

 

Time to make regular troops and archeological evidence and Rome total wars forums.

Quote

Some have argued that Europe, outside the Roman Empire, at this time was completely impassable and that actual roads did not exist. But the Dejbjerg and Giver wagons have undoubtely been produced in various locations in central Europe, and may probably have driven all the way home to Jylland. Besides, several authors tell that the Cimbri and Teutons used wagons to bring their wives and children with them around in Europe, so logically there must have been some kind of roads.

Many of the deep sunken roads, which still can be seen in slopes, forests and other uncultivated areas can well trace their origins back to the first part of the Iron Age or even earlier. The most visible sunken roads are associated with possible fords over streams or connected with places where it is possible to get around swampy areas in a natural way. Sunken roads pass often close to ancient monuments as dolmens and passage graves. Therefore, we believe that the sunken roads, that we see today, are just as old as the prehistoric memorials, that is more than five thousand years.

Roads were constructed over bogs and marshy areas on branches, planks or even as paved roads that we still can see in Borremose at Aars, Spellerup on Stevns, Tibirke on Sjælland and probably also in Risby Ådal at Vordingborg. At Krogsbølle near Bogense was found a stone road that led over a stream in a marshy hollow; close to the road have been found sacrificed weapons from early Celtic Iron Age.

Weapons, Ships and Tools

In early Celtic Iron Age, around 350 BC, a foreign army landed on the island of Als. It was met with determined resistance by the locals, and in the battle that followed the intruders were defeated. 

As thanks for the victory, they submerged all captured equipment into the sacred Hjortspring Mose. Judged by the number of spearheads, shields and swords, at least 60 of the attackers were killed. 

In Danish bogs have been found many such sacrifices to the gods in thanks for victory. It is characteristic that the sacrificed weapons and items have been systematically destroyed before they were deposited in the bog. The Roman writer Orosius tells of such a sacrifice after the Cimbri and the Teutons had triumphed in the South of France 105 BC - Only a few hundred years after the Battle of Hjortspring: "Having gained possession of both camps and of a huge amount of booty, the enemy seemed driven by some strange and unusual animus. They completely destroyed everything they had captured; clothing was cut to pieces and strewn about, gold and silver were thrown into the river, the breastplates of the men were hacked to pieces, the trappings of the horses were ruined, the horses themselves were drowned in whirlpools, and men, with nooses fastened around their necks, were hanged from trees. Thus the conqueror realized no booty, while the conquered obtained no mercy."

Despite the large number found spearheads and shields only one ship has been found in Hjortspring Mose, which could carry about 22-24 men, so one can imagine that some of the attackers escaped on the rest of the ships. Perhaps Als an early morning was attacked by an army of about 100 men - on possibly four ships. 

A selection of shields found in Hjortspring Moses. As you can see the shape varies greatly, but generally, they are square towards the oval. One shield is missing shield boss and handle, another is missing only shield boss. All shield bosses were made of wood. From Danmarks Oldtid af Johannes Brøndsted

The spear was by far the main weapon of the time. It can be calculated that each warrior was armed with two or three of these. Only a few had a short slashing sword. No battle axes have been found from the Celtic Iron Age. All warriors seem to have had a square somewhat oval wooden shield with a handle in the center protected by a shield boss. Between ten and twenty of the attackers wore chainmail.

Everywhere in contemporary Europe, both among Germans, Greeks and Etruscans, the spear was the weapon of choice, only among the Celts, it was pushed into the background in favor of the sword. 

Swords from Hjortspring Mose. To the left is a short slashing sword and to the right a more saber-like sword.
 

In Hjortspring Mose were found 169 spearheads, and we know with certainty that there have been more, as there are reports of many spearheads found by previous peat cuttings. The 138 spearheads are of iron, while 31 are of bone or antler. They are of widely varying size and shape. The longest is 43.5 cm. long, while the shortest only 5 cm; most are between 10 and 20 centimeters. The iron points have been secured with a nail of iron or bronze through the spear shaft.

The spearheads of bone are most often made of shin bones from sheep or goat. They were shafted in the hollow of the bones and secured with rivets of bone or wood. A slanted cutting produced a sharp point in the bone side wall. They are beautifully polished and often decorated with concentric patterns. All spear shafts were made of ash.

Perhaps spears with bone tips were preferably javelins, which were sent against the enemy in the initial stage of the battle. In the following melee spears with iron heads were probably used in a kind of one-hand bayonet fencing. With the other hand, the warriors tried to fend off the enemy's blows with their square shields.

In the Hjortspring bog were found about 50 shields in roughly complete condition and many pieces. They are made of soft wood, which will not easily split, such as el, linden or birch. Some are cut in one piece, others are fitted together by two or three thin planks. In the middle of the shield is a hole for a handle, which is protected by a shield boss of wood. A contemporary leather shield has been found in Borremose at Aars of approximately the same size and shape as the Hjortspring shields. This suggests the possibility that shields originally had been covered with leather.
 

Model of the Hjortspring boat. It is seen that it looks like the ships of the Bronze Age rock carvings. 

The Hjortspring boat is unique in that it is the first plank-built ship, which has been found in Denmark. All previously found vessels have been hollowed tree trunks.

It was a kind of light war canoe, which only weighed 530 kg. The total length was 17 m. and it was 2 m. wide. The boat's interior was 13.2 m. long. It was designed to be paddled forward by about 22 men. It was built from a wide base plank and four side planks, which were attached to bow blocks fore and aft. The whole thing has been sewn together with linden tree bast; all joints and holes from sewing have been sealed with a kind of oily sealing substance, which may have contained ox tallow. The whole ship was held in place by ten frames, which also served as rowing benches for the crew. Many of the paddles and a large steering oar are preserved. Fore and aft the keel plank and the railing frame were fitted with some trunk-like extensions.
Midship section of the Hjortspring Boat. From Danmarks Oldtid by Johannes Brøndsted.

The Hjortspring Boat looks like the vessels on the Bronze Age petroglyphs. We must believe that it is an example of a type of ship from the Iron Age with deep roots in the Bronze Age.

In Hjortspring Mose also more civilian objects were found, which the warriors must have had with them. This include wooden cans, bowls, clubs, a wooden spoon and tools for working on ropes. It is interesting, that some of the wooden objects have been produced with a lathe.

Religion

In the middle of the Bronze Age, the Danish people began to burn their dead, and that they continued throughout the Celtic Iron Age. Everybody was burned, and ash and remains of bones were often put into an urn, much as most do nowadays. It seems likely that a people, who burn their dead, must have a belief of a soul, which at death is released from the "lifeless" body and then takes to somewhere else, being reborn or possibly is invisible staying some time among his descendants. 

The urns were buried - much as in the Late Bronze Age - in the side, foot or top of existing mounds, under flat ground or small mounds were built over the buried urns. These small mounds are quite low and are often called "tue-graves".

Left: Plan of burial place from Celtic Iron Age at Årupgård between Ribe and Gram. The large circle at the top right represents a Bronze Age burial mound. The signatures small circle, cross and square and more below represent finds of fibulaes of different types, which are shown above each signature. It is known from other finds that different fibulae-types belong to different periods - fashion also changed in the Celtic Iron Age. It can be demonstrated that the oldest fibulae-types are found most close to the Bronze Age burial mound. Therefore, one can conclude that the village's first burials took place in the side of the old mound or in its immediate vicinity, the following funerals took place near them but a little farther away, and thus the burial ground had slowly spread over the field with the original Bronze Age mound as a starting point. 
This makes the entire burial ground's layout similar to a family tree with the original ancestor in the top represented by the mythical king from the Bronze Age, who was lying in the mound. From Danmarks Historie 1. 
Right top: Excavation of burial site under flat ground at Sepstrup near Aarhus - From Danmarks Oldtid III by Johannes Brøndsted.
Right below: Aerial view of tue-grave site at Årre near Varde during excavation - Foto Varde Museum.

Iron Age burial sites were often made in connection with ancient burial mounds from Neolithic and Bronze Age, demonstrating the continuity of Danish culture. The tue-grave burial site at Årre between Esbjerg and Varde is a good example; it was started from a group of about 20 older burial mounds which were three long barrows from Neolithic around 3.000 BC and a number of large Bronze Age burial mounds from the period 1.700 to 1.000 BC The burial site was used by several Iron Age villages in the period 500-250 BC and included at least 1,000 funerals.

In fact, through millennia Danish peasants have respected the ancient burial mounds and plowed around them. They must have considered them to be the ancestral graves, which it was not appropriate to destroy. Only after the intensification of agriculture in the 1800's many mounds have been plowed over.

Quote

Roman relief depicting the Battle 102 BC at that time Aquae Sextiae, which was near the town of Aix-en-Provence north of Marseille. A Roman army under Gaius Marius overcame finally the Teutons and Ambrones. Note that the Teutons and Ambrones are shown fighting naked. Some migratory people could do this, perhaps for religious reasons. Paul the Deacon tells that the later Heruls did precisely that, and they may also have come from Denmark; He did not know why. 

None of the ancient writers mention that the Teutons or the Cimbri fought naked. Plutarchos mentions that the Cimbri used breastplates of iron, but of course, the Teutons could have had other traditions. Maybe the Romans just liked the idea of the harsh legionnaires, who resolutely cut down the naked barbarians. 

Florus writes: "But the struggle with the enemies' wives was not less severe than that with themselves; for the women, being mounted on wagons and other carriages, which had been ranged around as a defence, fought from them, as from towers, with spears and pikes. The death of these savages was as glorious as their contest for victory; for when, upon sending an embassy to Marius, they failed to obtain their liberty, and sacerdotal protection, which it was not lawful to grant, they either fell, after strangling or braining the whole of their children, by mutual wounds, or hanged themselves, with ropes made of their own hair, upon tress and the yokes of their wagons."

 

Spoiler

Where did they come from?
Many have doubted that such gigantic masses as Plutarchos' 300,000 could have come from such a limited area as Jylland. But as they really were not that many, it becomes also more likely that Cimbri actually came from Jutland.

Gudmund Schutte has analyzed the ancient writers: 

1) Cimbri live on a peninsula - Strabo, Mela, Pliny.
2) A mighty bay extends east of the Cimbrian peninsula - Mela, Pliny.
3) The bay on the east of the Cimbrian peninsula contains several islands - Mela, Pliny.
4) Among island names is Skandia - Pliny.
5) The name Skandia is attributed to the largest of the islands; by Pliny, the largest island is called Scadinauia, by Mela Codanouia.
6) The Cimbri are neighboring the Charudes - Augustus.
7) The Charudes are neighboring the Fundusis - (Ptolemaeus).
8) The Cimbric area that was visited by the Roman fleet is located near the Semnones - Augustus, Vellejus.
9) The Cimbri live near the Teutons - Mela, Pliny.
10) The Teutons live at the Baltic Sea - Mela

Names

Quote

It is argued that all the known Cimbrian leaders had Celtic names such as Boiorix, Gaesorix and Lugius. Celtic was the international language of Central Europe, it was probably the language in which they communicated. Cimbri toured around in the Celtic world for nearly twenty years, so one should expect that they had learned the language. Perhaps it has been easier for other people to remember their names if they were something that sounded Celtic, maybe they thought that it was a little more noble to have a Celtic-sounding name. Maybe the names of the Cimbri kings really were Bøjerik or Geiseric, which the Romans heard as Boiorix and Gaesorix.

In "The Gallic Wars" Appian tells how the Belgian Nervii tribe in 57 BC massacred Caesar's men including tribunes and centurions. It is explained by the note: "Nervii were descendants of the Cimbri and the Teutons."

When Caesar encouraged his men for an upcoming confrontation with the Germanic Suebi tribe under Ariovist, he said: "The Romans have met this enemy before. It was when the Cimbri and the Teutons were defeated by Gaius Marius, a victory that brought the army just as great honor as the commander of the army. We have also met this enemy under the slave uprising, in which the slaves had the benefit of that they had got a little Roman training and discipline."
 

 

http://www.dandebat.dk/eng-dk-historie10.htm

Quote

As almost all bog bodies, the Huldremose woman was found by peat cutting, it happened in 1879 in Huldremosen near Ramten west of Grenå. She was 40 years old when she died around the year of birth of Christ. The cause of death was strangulation. Her last meal was rye bread. What is special about the Huldremose woman is her very well preserved garment; a comb and a headband were also found on her, indicating that she was caringly placed in the bog and not just tossed in a hole.

She was wearing a cloak, a scarf and a skirt, all made from wool. It has been demonstrated that the cloak has been colored red, and the skirt blue, both with woven checkered patterns. Moreover, there are traces of underwear, made of plant fibers, perhaps flax or nettle although the greater part has now disappeared. It is obvious that with such an exclusive robe she must have belonged the to the upper layer of society.

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Hmm, some kind of antler design on a wooden shield could work nicely for an emblem. Thoughts anyone? 

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Hmm, some kind of antler design on a wooden shield could work nicely for an emblem. Thoughts anyone? 

this with sometting more...(maybe)

Quote

Two versions of the “Notitia Dignitarium” were recorded in Latin, describing details of the Roman government and military administrative organization current to that time. Although there are no extant copies written before the 14th Century, the data does have internal and external consistency and may be considered reliable. Under the Military Commanders section, the Empire is divided into Eastern and Western divisions. In sections entitled “Magister Peditum” there are 123 shields illustrated, each pertaining to a military unit; and “Comes Africae” 32 duplicated shields are shown. These would be the patterns on the shields carried by soldiers in each of the respective units. There appear to be early (circa 400 AD) and late (circa 420 AD) versions. In the former the Cimbriani are listed as Military Auxiliares under the command of the Duke of Second Moesia (Northeast Bulgaria). They appear to have been promoted to the elite group of 12 Palatine Legions (of 127 total) under the “Master of Foot” (in other words infantry regiment) and placed under the command of the Count of Africa by about 420. There were Celtae and Germaniciai groups so the Cimbri clearly are differentiated from both. The shield associated with these Cimbriani groups is a simple red - mauve background with a gold center and a gold surround. There are works in German and other languages that have explored the role of the Cimbriani, and Benseddik (1981) apparently describes their activities in Algeria, specifically the town of Setif, east of Algiers. A more comprehensive view of the participation of the Cimbriani in the Roman Legions, written in German by Scharf (2001), is also unavailable to the present author. Cimbrian shield as shown in the “Notitia Dignitorium” circa 400 AD. Considering the huge quantities of Roman goods appearing in Jutland and the Danish Isles at this time (early years after the birth of Christ and noted earlier), this activity of a few thousand Cimbri sending items home, or bringing their accumulated wealth back upon retirement as a Legionnaire, would go a long way to explaining what has been found in archaeological contexts noted above. Some supposed Cimbri and Teutone descendants via the Atuatuci / Tungri and Nervi of Belgium (Ardennes Region) were employed by the Romans according to the “Notitia”. It 72 has been recorded that, The document mentions the Tribune of the First Cohort of Tungri stationed along Hadrians Wall at Vercovicium (now known as Housesteads, Northumberland), who had been mentioned on four military diplomata dating to the beginning of the 2nd century, as well as on altars and in descriptions, even on one of the Vindolanda writing tablets. The cohort was split in Hadrianic times to form a Second Cohort of Tungri as well, both cohorts 1000 men strong. Dedications were to the goddess Minerva; whereas those of the Nervi (specifically noted as “Germans”) were to Jupiter.

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

Troops 2

Quote

Though Germanic archers were never incredibly remarkable nor popular, it is of no doubt that they were a prevalent (however small) part of the Germanic army. The longbow is one of the oldest weapons in the Germanic arsenal, with one being found from around the year 4000 BC. The skutjanazwere recruited from hunters and youths who excelled in the use of the bow. As such, their ability to hide and move through the forests was more than unprecedented. 

 

Quote

While Germanic nobility was much more scarce than in their neighboring Celtic society, Germanic society was still somewhat stratified, though more flexible. One was not considered noble by birth, but by deeds. Nobles were often the greatest warriors and were famed far and wide for their fighting prowess. A noble's duty in battle was to show unrelenting courage and ferocity, to inspire the same in each man on that field. 

 

..

Quote

The Germanic tribes to the North and East had little contact with the Gauls of Western Europe, and as such had little in the ways of swords. Instead, a new weapon developed in these areas – the seax, or sahsa. Little more than a long war-knife, these weapons were usually single-edged and quite heavy. The knives were so popular in the north that a tribe called the Sahksons took their name from it. While they weren't as deadly as a true sword, these war-knives could certainly make up for the lack of heavy infantry

Quote

The dugunthiz are made up of older and more experienced warriors, who had participated in warfare and earned their place as the main battle-line. These men are hardier than most tribesmen, and though they are poor and unarmored, they make up for it in experience and training. Skilled in the use of the shield-wall and the shield-fort, they are defensive spearmen more than capable at holding the enemy at bay.

 

Quote

While pikes were reserved for more "civilized" nations, Tacitus describes some members of the Germanic nations as fighting in a shield wall with long spears, as opposed to their Celtic cousins. It is more than likely that the Germans picked up the use of the long spear from the Celtic tribes in the Alpine regions, who were known for their tightly packed formations and highly effective spearmen.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?650524-Germanic-Preview

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Genava55]

11 hours ago, av93 said:

What about a generic "Germanic" civ that represents the Cimbri/ Teutones/Ambrones alliance? 

Maybe it is a bit too much generic and will cause collusion with future germanic factions. Pre-Roman Cimbri are different from the future Germans.

How to represent a huge cultural diversities and a long evolution through centuries under an unique umbrella-term?  This is like saying "Celts" for Hallstatt, La Tène, British Iron Age and North-western Spanish Iron Age populations. This is right from a linguistic perspective but wrong from an ethnic and cultural perspective.

It will mandatory ends with multiple different factions. So Cimbri, Marcomanni, Goth, Saxons, Franks etc. are better in my opinion.

@Lion.Kanzen Be careful with the migration of the Cimbri. They were a bunch of tribes joining them during their travel. Especially Celts and Rhaetians. But look to their pathway and to which cultures they have meet. They clearly also meet populations from Oksywie culture (Oxhöft-Kultur) and Przeworsk culture. The latter could explains why there was Celtic speaking people among them since the beginning. Moreover, there are archeological findings suggesting links and exchange between the Denmark and Poland.

Edit: finally, using the name "German" ends as a thrash-bin were we can throw everything labeled "germanic" in it. Which is definitely wrong.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Genava55

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 minute ago, Genava55 said:

Maybe it is a bit too much generic and will cause collusion with future germanic factions. Pre-Roman Cimbri are different from the future Germans.

How to represent a huge cultural diversities and a long evolution through centuries under an unique umbrella-term?  This is like saying "Celts" for Hallstatt, La Tène, British Iron Age and North-western Spanish Iron Age populations. This is right from a linguistic perspective but wrong from an ethnic and cultural perspective.

It will mandatory ends with multiple different factions. So Cimbri, Marcomanni, Goth, Saxons, Franks etc. are better in my opinion.

@Lion.Kanzen Be careful with the migration of the Cimbri. They were a bunch of tribes joining them during their travel. Especially Celts and Rhaetians. But look to their pathway and to which cultures they have meet. They clearly also meet populations from Oksywie culture (Oxhöft-Kultur) and Przeworsk culture. The latter could explains why there was Celtic speaking people among them since the beginning. Moreover, there are archeological findings suggesting links and exchange between the Denmark and Poland.

yes , I very hard to me. help me you know better what is Germanic and Gallic.

[Lion.Kanzen]

or idea first time we discussed.

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

Its_a_mans_world..._Germanic_societies_o.pdf

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[Genava55]

47 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

yes , I very hard to me. help me you know better what is Germanic and Gallic.

I am not at home yet.

For the moment:

Borremose "fortress"

Spoiler

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Jes_Martens/publication/330902229_Refuge_-_fortified_settlement_-_central_place_Three_years_of_archaeological_investigations_at_the_Borremose_stronghold/links/5c5ac4fc299bf1d14caf787a/Refuge-fortified-settlement-central-place-Three-years-of-archaeological-investigations-at-the-Borremose-stronghold.pdf?origin=publication_detail

Iron age Jutland village

Spoiler

Celtic weapons:

Spoiler

Bones weapons:

Spoiler

Wooden weapons:

Spoiler

One-edged swords:

Spoiler

Celtic like spearheads:

Spoiler

Battle-scene:

Spoiler

 

[av93]

3 hours ago, Genava55 said:

Maybe it is a bit too much generic and will cause collusion with future germanic factions. Pre-Roman Cimbri are different from the future Germans.

Edit: finally, using the name "German" ends as a thrash-bin were we can throw everything labeled "germanic" in it. Which is definitely wrong.

Yes, of course. While I'm an social anthropologist and I agree full on that, from a gameplay POV, including so much tribes, that shouldn't be so different in terms of gameplay, could be in detriment of including other more distinct civs. 

I also think that it's better to depict only civs in the roughly same epoch (in my taste). No goths against carthaginians.

But if German isnt a right word, lets choose one of the tribes as a representative of the diverse protogermans? 

[Genava55]

33 minutes ago, av93 said:

No goths against carthaginians.

For the moment this is not in the plan but in the future or in mods? 

43 minutes ago, av93 said:

But if German isnt a right word, lets choose one of the tribes as a representative of the diverse protogermans? 

I wonder if a confederate faction like the Marcomanni with regional units could be better to represents all the diversity of the early germanic speaking populations. 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone what was your plan about the Batavi, Goths etc ? Different factions?

[av93]

2 hours ago, Genava55 said:

For the moment this is not in the plan but in the future or in mods?

As I said, this is my personal taste. If the art work it's done, there's no problem to someone to arrange factions like he wants.

The real plan for the main distribution, is to not add more civilizations. what would be the specials features of a Germanic civ? (Marcomanni confederation, if you want to be more specific?)

Just wondering, what would be the uniqueness of their social/cultural, economic and specially warfare traits? What would made stand different to other Celts in army composition?