kalizy Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Hi, It seems that formations are lacking some things and i'd like to suggest a few improvements - Description on the formations and their respective bonuses like the turtle formation that slows speed but bolsters defense for example - Shield dispostion ,that is present in Delenda est if i recall correctly, basically a toggle option where your battalion has their shields up or down - Dynamism between the infantry types like, when I pick various combatants 20 cavalry, 20 infantry, 40 archers and 10 ranged siege, have infantry at the front, archers in the middle, cavalry on the bottom along with siege and have the same movement speed as the slowest unit in the group to ensure more strategical success. on a side note it'd be great if it was possible to implement asian empires to the game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, kalizy said: Hi, It seems that formations are lacking some things and i'd like to suggest a few improvements - Description on the formations and their respective bonuses like the turtle formation that slows speed but bolsters defense for example - Shield dispostion ,that is present in Delenda est if i recall correctly, basically a toggle option where your battalion has their shields up or down - Dynamism between the infantry types like, when I pick various combatants 20 cavalry, 20 infantry, 40 archers and 10 ranged siege, have infantry at the front, archers in the middle, cavalry on the bottom along with siege and have the same movement speed as the slowest unit in the group to ensure more strategical success. on a side note it'd be great if it was possible to implement asian empires to the game If you mean far Asian, Han dynasty its the only big empire... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, kalizy said: - Dynamism between the infantry types like, when I pick various combatants 20 cavalry, 20 infantry, 40 archers and 10 ranged siege, have infantry at the front, archers in the middle, cavalry on the bottom along with siege and have the same movement speed as the slowest unit in the group to ensure more strategical success. Yes please! When selecting a group, the entire group should move at the speed of the slowest unit in that group! This seems like a basic feature that's perhaps overlooked? It would help a lot with keeping armies together when marching a long distance, and would make the AI less vulnerable when attacking. When you're moving with siege-engines, infantry and horses in the same group, the group will move at the speed of the siege. You can easily select a subgroup of specific units from the original group, and when given a new move-order, would start moving at the normal movement speed for that unit. So horses would start moving at their original speed (a lot faster) when a move order is giving only to the horses, while siege and infantry keep moving at the speed of the siege-engines. I think it's a tactical must-have... By the way, a Han Chinese faction has been created and is fully playable. It juts needs some more vocal support to get in the vanilla game... A nomadic Xiognu faction is also in development and seems like it will be ready before the next alpha. It also needs support to be implemented in vanilla. Same story for the African Kushite faction... Edited November 16, 2017 by Sundiata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grugnas Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Units move already at speed of the slowest unit within formation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 25 minutes ago, Grugnas said: Units move already at speed of the slowest unit within formation. This is true. But folks must remember to manually put them into formation to make sure their army arrives together and semi- quasi- pseudo- organized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 39 minutes ago, Grugnas said: within formation. I'm sorry, but I thought formations are broken? In my experience, putting units in formation right now is like sending lambs to the slaughter. The point of units moving at the speed of the slowest unit in a selection, is to make them less vulnerable, not more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 26 minutes ago, Sundiata said: I'm sorry, but I thought formations are broken? In my experience, putting units in formation right now is like sending lambs to the slaughter. The point of units moving at the speed of the slowest unit in a selection, is to make them less vulnerable, not more... The key is to just implement the hard battalion system. Voila. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 35 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: battalion system I'd really love a battalion system, but I'd still rather see it appear only after researching a tech in town phase. Similarly, a tech in city phase could allow organising those battalions in to larger armies. Disorderly bunch of morons in village phase → organised battalions in town-phase → Battalions organised in to larger armies in city phase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grugnas Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Sundiata said: I'm sorry, but I thought formations are broken? In my experience, putting units in formation right now is like sending lambs to the slaughter. The point of units moving at the speed of the slowest unit in a selection, is to make them less vulnerable, not more... Formations are bugged because units have problems into finding own position in the shape when near obstructions. This means that the whole formation wont move if 1 unit get stuck (i am sure this mostly happens when the members are reaching own position in the shape when forming the formation ) nor attack thus you are forced to delete whole units within formation. I was thinking about a system like for control groups hotkeys where if you lock a formation through a button in the middle panel ( where u see the garrison, repair, deletr icons) , whenever you select an unit within formation, the whole formation will be selected just like a battallion with the flexibility to disband and modify it whenever you want ( but code comprension is quite nasty) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grugnas Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 53 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: The key is to just implement the hard battalion system. Voila. Please stop convincing me that a battalion system is the right way to go XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb_ Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 An old branch from @Itms:https://github.com/na-itms/0ad/tree/formation-wip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalizy Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 2 hours ago, Grugnas said: Units move already at speed of the slowest unit within formation. what i meant to say was, the army moves at the slowest unit's speed, you got archers and a siege tower, you pick both, they should move at the same pace as the tower Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb_ Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 They already do as said, but you have to use a specific formation explicitly, not the default "None" formation, with that every unit moves at his own speed. You can set formation by clicking the icons between the minimap and the selection info (so sorta bottom left-middle). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraitii Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Quote The key is to just implement the hard battalion system. Voila. This is most likely the direction we'll take. I'm pushing for also having a "walk together" behaviour that sort of mimics AoE 2 formations. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grugnas Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 45 minutes ago, wraitii said: This is most likely the direction we'll take. I'm pushing for also having a "walk together" behaviour that sort of mimics AoE 2 formations. how so? do you mean remove citizen soldier thing and train units directly in battalion batches? the definition of "hard battallion system" isn't clear enough to let me think that it would be something better than BFME system. There isn't any advantage into having a battallions only system that a locked formation can't perform except the better flexibility that the latter one has ( i talk from the player experience point of view) as long as units within in formation can behave differently from single citizen soldiers units which are able to also perform building and not military-oriented tasks. Matter of fact having a formations with military bonuses would discourage taking fights without using any formation thus keeping the advantage of micro management and the advantage of battallions macro management when needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wraitii Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 No I don't mean "only in bataillons", sorry if that was unclear. What I mean is that we'll most likely treat formations as a single entity once created. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kalizy Posted November 16, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 basically like in total war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphyrth Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Units in formation adjust to the slowest unit? I guess I didn't actually notice it because when I move a Formation so that it would make a 180 degree turn, everybody moves at sonic speeds just to get into formation. You can even see the Dust Effects because of the running. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 16 hours ago, Grugnas said: ( i talk from the player experience point of view) You talk from your point of view, yeah. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: You talk from your point of view, yeah. I prefer auto create battalion splits units to micro and things like that. BFME I don't like that game, but I love RTW1-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: I prefer auto create battalion splits units to micro and things like that. BFME I don't like that game, but I love RTW1-2. I'm not going to litigate this again. I'll just point to this: http://www.moddb.com/mods/0-ad-delenda-est/news/battalions-and-formations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: I'm not going to litigate this again. I'll just point to this: http://www.moddb.com/mods/0-ad-delenda-est/news/battalions-and-formations I said before if you need help here we are. but share the mod with us.may be found a programmer. starting to make a fb page and sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hassurbanipal Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 Hello everyone, i am new on this forum and this is my first post. I just want to say that in my opinion there is to much micro management in commanding units in the fight. I think that one of the best sollution of this matter was in the Cossacks II. There was a system of commanding by whole units with the morale system. Also 0 AD would be more transparent(especially fight) with a similar system. Now the units spread ramdomly when you send them to the fight, but if you have units like legionary, hoplites and more it will be better to operate them by a few independent formations(which doesnt spread, can be easily find on the map and distinguished from the others) . It wil be easier and I think better to deploy and giving orders to the unit not to every single solder. More over it's give a possobility to implement some tactics to the game (flanking by cavalery, use skirmishers to guard the flanks of falanga etc). I hope you could understand me, my english is not very good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted December 19, 2017 Report Share Posted December 19, 2017 56 minutes ago, hassurbanipal said: Hello everyone, i am new on this forum and this is my first post. I just want to say that in my opinion there is to much micro management in commanding units in the fight. I think that one of the best sollution of this matter was in the Cossacks II. There was a system of commanding by whole units with the morale system. Also 0 AD would be more transparent(especially fight) with a similar system. Now the units spread ramdomly when you send them to the fight, but if you have units like legionary, hoplites and more it will be better to operate them by a few independent formations(which doesnt spread, can be easily find on the map and distinguished from the others) . It wil be easier and I think better to deploy and giving orders to the unit not to every single solder. More over it's give a possobility to implement some tactics to the game (flanking by cavalery, use skirmishers to guard the flanks of falanga etc). I hope you could understand me, my english is not very good Welcome, you mean battalion system? for now is suggested but many things can be done before team start to work deeply in this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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