D896 disabled training cavalry at civil centres discussion

[Grugnas]

On 9/18/2017 at 3:02 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

2. I think War Elephant attack should be rebalanced to be something like 60 hack, 40 crush. They still can be used against buildings, but are really much better against units

i partially agree with this.

Usually civs that can train elephants can also train other kind of units to crush buildings  ( mauryans have yoddha, persians have rams, seleucids and carthage have catapults).

Swapping some crush damage (which is already higher than rams and perhaps not fair) to hack would make them much better against units.

On the other hand elephants are really easy to kill with a bunch of skirmishers and destroy sieges like flies (maybe with more hack damage would be even worse tending to opiness).

EDIT: i recall a game where, as spartan, i trained more than 50 champions and couldn't stand at the opponent archer cavalry spam (perhaps more than 80 units) because he kept baiting my hoplites then split his army in more directions forcing me to split aswell and chase hoping.

The only possible thing to do was to train rams as long as archers were basically untouchable because of their high mobility, but  1 elephant just destroyed every ram i sent even in batch of 3 units.

Edited September 19, 2017 by Grugnas

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

27 minutes ago, Grugnas said:

The only possible thing to do was to train rams as long as archers were basically untouchable because of their high mobility, but  1 elephant just destroyed every ram i sent even in batch of 3 units.

Why shouldn't an elephant be capable of killing a bunch of rams?

[Servo]

Nor does or did  the ram can kill elephants in historic battle?

Since most decent players ban walls why don't we increase the cost of building walls as well as building time of these walls to be more realistic for use in SP? I think in real battles rams are effectively used once enemies (range)are cleared from sorrounding walls and gates so that manned rams can do their purpose.

if you consider all available and playable mods each has its own good feature/s that could really be nice to change the meta.

1. Skirm cavs accuracy changed by user1 is good. Buff the melee cavs attack rate between 2.5 to 2 secs and it's HP nerf between 10 to 20.

2. Use a corral tech prerequisite to train hunters (non or less effective combatants but high carry capacity ) from CC but can be upgraded using tech and combat cavalries (can't hunt) from barracks or stable(more realistic). Numbers limited per Phase or per barracks/stable(2 buildings max per CC/1 for colony) built. 

2. Buff attack rate for anti cavalry infantry a bit faster than any melee cavalry. TBH Idk how you arrive at the rating 1.5 x against. 

3. Requiring metal on units using metal to fight. 

 

[Grugnas]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Why shouldn't an elephant be capable of killing a bunch of rams?

they can and they should, but perhaps destroy a ram with 2 or 3 hits only is kinda frustrating.

39 minutes ago, Servo said:

Since most decent players ban walls why don't we increase the cost of building walls as well as building time of these walls to be more realistic for use in SP? I think in real battles rams are effectively used once enemies (range)are cleared from sorrounding walls and gates so that manned rams can do their purpose.

 

The main issue with walls is that wall turrets can actually shoot arrows and have thousands of healthpoints. More healthpoints than ordinary wall layers and with no build restriction distance on other wall turrets thus spammable.

Simply by removing the possibility to garrison the wall turrets with soldiers and prevent those to shoot arrows would already be a great footstep to allow their use in multiplayer.

[Sundiata]

I think if an elephant has no problem flipping a minivan, it wouldn't have any problems flipping a wooden battering ram, and completely destroy it in the process. These are the strongest land animals around. As for gates, unless you put pikes on them, elephants can knock them down...

Spoiler

Elephant flipping minivan:

 

elephant tossing a rickshaw up in the air 

 

This artist seems to think elephants pose a credible threat to (modest) city walls.

 

In India, many old fortresses have pikes on the gate doors, to prevent elephants from barging through. This shows that elephants taking down a gate is a credible threat.

 

 

[LordGood]

_{i always wondered why those existed and now I know and that's real cool}

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Walls.

Make all wall towers shoot 0 default arrows. Visible garrison only, just like wall sections. No rooftops. Just a slight range buff for archers over garrisoning walls.

In city phase all civs can upgrade individual towers with sentry houses for a cost. This adds a roof and 1 or 2 default arrows. No garrison arrows.

Give advanced civs option to upgrade individual wall towers further to scorpion towers that shoot scorpion/oxybeles bolts. No garrison arrows. 

 

Point is they shoot no extra garrison arrows and start out shooting 0 default arrows. Only later can you upgrade them to auto-shoot, but on an individual basis so that the cost scales up.

[Servo]

Isn't it better that by default wall turrets can't be garrisoned but can be upgraded (individually) for garrisoning and can only fire projectile/s types of which depending only of a range unit garrisoned? Stronghold type towers attached to walls are really cool. Units can be killed by any foot soldiers either range or melee(can climb or enter). Walkable walls are also a good feature so that foot soldiers can patrol. The turrets should have one entrance/exit too and unit don't do a ninja to access or exit.  You add moating then it will really be awesome. Just talking about SP here. 

Edited September 20, 2017 by Servo

[Grugnas]

1 hour ago, Servo said:

Isn't it better that by default wall turrets can't be garrisoned but can be upgraded (individually) for garrisoning and can only fire projectile/s types of which depending only of a range unit garrisoned? Stronghold type towers attached to walls are really cool. Units can be killed by any foot soldiers either range or melee(can climb or enter). Walkable walls are also a good feature so that foot soldiers can patrol. The turrets should have one entrance/exit too and unit don't do a ninja to access or exit.  You add moating then it will really be awesome. Just talking about SP here. 

imho the problem is to be addressed to the great amount of hp and armor the turret has with the ability to have units garrisoned in it and shoot arrows.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, Servo said:

Isn't it better that by default wall turrets can't be garrisoned but can be upgraded (individually) for garrisoning and can only fire projectile/s types of which depending only of a range unit garrisoned? Stronghold type towers attached to walls are really cool. Units can be killed by any foot soldiers either range or melee(can climb or enter). Walkable walls are also a good feature so that foot soldiers can patrol. The turrets should have one entrance/exit too and unit don't do a ninja to access or exit.  You add moating then it will really be awesome. Just talking about SP here. 

Sure maybe but my solutions are already possible. Yours require new code.