Take Dropsite Away from Civic Center

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Hi. Let's remove dropsite ability from the Civic Center.

Why would I propose this? 

1. Forces building storehouses and farmsteads from the start of a typical match, introducing the concept early.
2. Refocuses the Civic Center on its primary purposes: training citizens, upgrading your settlement, and claiming territory.
3. The player places new Civic Centers for optimal territorial claim, rather than as a forward dropsite which more often than not is not an optimal territorial claim.
4. It's a soft encouragement to place farms around the farmstead instead of around the Civic Center. I can get rid of the "Civic Spaces" farming penalty.
   • I know that there's also the defensive benefit to placing around the Civic Center, but it's a step in the right direction here.

Edited March 30, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Because is Town Center equivalent in AoE, the command center/nexus/hive  in  Sc2.

i don't see why you want cut out. If you are starting with 0-0-0-0 resources how you can have as dropsite.

the problem isn't the CC, are the resources are too close and the LOS of units don't help to be blinding in a uncharted territory.

---------

farmstead must be requirement to build a farm/field or a corral.

 

 

To the idea you are work in is show the raious where you can have better harvesting and may be place farm fields outside in a secret place to avoid early raids.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

You addressed zero of my points.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Im explaining my points.

• claiming territory, are you sure this a feature that can be main feature, some people wants free buildings , so for that cases you need that dropsite.
• in 0 A.D the CC works together with other SB as Governament center ( AoE1) and university.( you have a point here) but this can be changed in future.
• your idea bring a build a farmstead and storehousecaround the CC( with actual game design) (my unique worry is this)
• why include a farmsteadvwith 4 basic field around ( like EE 1, Cossacks...etc)

 

The best way is tested.

--- Off-topic--------

by other way why not creating design committe with team members, modders and experience players? If You like idea I will a topic. The best ideas will be tested public in  a mod similar to Delenda Est.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

23 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

by other way why not creating design committe with team members, modders and experience players? If You like idea I will a topic. The best ideas will be tested public in  a mod similar to Delenda Est.

I hate hate hate hate committees. It's the reason I do not offer to work for or with the wfg team.

 

IMHO, I don't care what analogues the Civic Center has with Age of Empires buildings. We are way beyond Age of Empire here. I want to make clear distinctions for buildings and units. It's why I want to alter the citizen-soldier concept. It's why I want to remove soldiers from the Civic Center and refocus them onto the Barracks and Merc Camps. It's a big reason I want to split the Civic Center from the Dropsites.

 

In a zero resources at start match, first 2 dropsites can be free or something. Place them wisely.

Edited March 30, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Spoiler

The problem is they aren't listen even in between them.

they have a committe for make hard decisions. But there still.

We are a different level here.( I can save this democratic/utopía  speech for later...)

you need each territory maximizes(phase) the farms ory away from civic buildings.

yes indeed no more solders in the CC only citizen/peasant/villager and may be slaves.

 

But first the resources need replace in each map. Mostly of them is surrounding the CC.

can you mod this's for DE. That's why asking about committe, I want test your point.

for example with glory mechanic thing, I must  confess I was wrong, because I test your concept instead get my mind close.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I already synced the CC/dropsite change to git.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I already synced the CC/dropsite change to git.

I need start(turn on)  my pc again.

------

you are modding random maps? Or you are into?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Just now, Lion.Kanzen said:

you are modding random maps? Or you are into?

Only skirmish maps for now. Easier for me, plus the skirmish maps can be made to exacting standards that maximize the gameplay changes I have made. Just way easier to test things with skirm maps.

[Sundiata]

I support this. It really makes me strangely upset to see people put fields around their CC… I mean, C'mon!?!? Are you building a town or an elaborate plantation??? The area around the CC should indeed never be used for farming, but for city-building… Making people use drop sites to drop resources makes perfect sense to me… 

Perhaps making the farm a prerequisite for the field is a logical alternative that should solve the issue… Or for every farm, you can plant x-amount of fields.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Sundiata

[sphyrth]

Battle Realms Mechanic:
At the start of the game, there's no structures. You can build a house (I don't really remember, so I'll call it a house). It serves both as a dropsite, and a means to train peasants.

Should that work?

[Lion.Kanzen]

Ok in your skirmish maps , works  great.

Edited March 30, 2017 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

8 hours ago, Sundiata said:

Perhaps making the farm a prerequisite for the field is a logical alternative that should solve the issue… Or for every farm, you can plant x-amount of fields.

I can do this right now with a hack. Field template <RequiredTechnology> would be something like "Unlock_Farms", which is an auto-research tech with prerequisite of a Farmstead class object. Then with Player.js, make it so for every 1 farmstead, up to 8 fields are unlocked. The first bit is a hack, the last bit isn't. The non-hacky way would be to code the game to allow templates to have a RequiredClass or a generic Requirements element, with different requirements possible within that element. Right now, the only requirement possible in the templates is RequiredTechnology. It's not a super ugly hack, really, and may be the preferred way to do it for all I know.

Anyway, we can combine all of these things, really, since they all make sense separately and together.

Edited March 30, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, sphyrth said:

It serves both as a dropsite, and a means to train peasants.

In my gameplay proposal thread, I proposed that you can build slaves from dropsites. They're econ units only. I could see the possibility for a strategy in a nomad match where the player miiiight want to build a few storehouses and farmstead first, before their starting CC and gather some more resources before they found their city and announce to the enemy where they are. Dunno.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Nomad, I like the idea the units are dispersed finding a good place.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I just remembered I don't need to use a tech hack, can just use player.js.

[sphyrth]

23 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

In my gameplay proposal thread, I proposed that you can build slaves from dropsites. They're econ units only. I could see the possibility for a strategy in a nomad match where the player miiiight want to build a few storehouses and farmstead first, before their starting CC and gather some more resources before they found their city and announce to the enemy where they are. Dunno.

That's the Battle Realms mechanic I was talking about.
At the start of the game, no Civic Centers at all. After all, it makes more sense that civilizations start from a nomadic setting.

You start by building houses and set up your Village from there.

[niektb]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone: you can't just set the initial field limit at 0 and increasing with every farmstead built?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I just remembered I don't need to use a tech hack, can just use player.js.

 

2 minutes ago, niektb said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone: you can't just set the initial field limit at 0 and increasing with every farmstead built?

, I meant player.xml. 

Edited March 31, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[niektb]

Lol, I need to read better

[Lion.Kanzen]

Try to play polar sea.

[DarcReaver]

On 30.3.2017 at 10:39 AM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I hate hate hate hate committees. It's the reason I do not offer to work for or with the wfg team.

 

IMHO, I don't care what analogues the Civic Center has with Age of Empires buildings. We are way beyond Age of Empire here. I want to make clear distinctions for buildings and units. It's why I want to alter the citizen-soldier concept. It's why I want to remove soldiers from the Civic Center and refocus them onto the Barracks and Merc Camps. It's a big reason I want to split the Civic Center from the Dropsites.

 

In a zero resources at start match, first 2 dropsites can be free or something. Place them wisely.

Agree. Comparing to AoE doesn't help. Having slaves buildable in dropsites would be a compromise between my "early CC" concept and your "offshore drop sites". I think as long as stragglers are nearby the main base there is no problem with drop sites costing resources though. it would only become a problem if gatherers have to travel a lot to harvest wood.

 

 

20 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Try to play polar sea.

Tbh, map types can be swapped, reworked or in worst case removed if they don't fit the game. First comes gameplay, then come maps.

[Lion.Kanzen]

in some this idea didn't work.

with the bad pathfinding in the latest svn changes....

[WhiteTreePaladin]

This seems like a really interesting idea. I'm going to play a bit with the dropsite turned off on the civil center and see how it goes. I'm also going to make resource gathering buildings not require resources to build; instead they will only take time (like the Ptolemaic buildings).

Edited April 1, 2017 by WhiteTreePaladin

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, DarcReaver said:

Tbh, map types can be swapped, reworked or in worst case removed if they don't fit the game. First comes gameplay, then come maps.

That's what I was thinking too. We can come up with ways to make Polar Sea or any other map or gametype work with any new paradigm we come up with.  It's all good, as my mother says.