Victory Conditions Ideas

[Lion.Kanzen]

So will be game mode with bunch of maps like Nomad, Random Land, etc.

[elexis]

Actually I had started to rewrite all random map scripts to:

Firstly remove their syntax errors (missing semicolons, whitespace, unused variables, unneeded variables, bad indentation) (see also RMS rewrite spam after some a21 freeze).

Secondly remove code duplication hell (basically all old map were done by coping some other map, changing numbers and adding more code to it). For example adding a function to place berries, a function to render a city patch, a function to place the CC and initial units, a function to place initial stone and metal mines. (See also something stashed in some github repo).

Thirdly fix resources collision bugs that can now be fixed in the new function instead of in every map individually. For example initial mines can be placed in trees, mines or berries (since the angle where they are placed is hardcoded and there are no collision checks at all ). On stronghold map even in the neighbors CC.

Fourthly profit from the cleanup by easily extending the features. For example nomad and survival are very enjoyable gamemodes, but they only work on two maps each. Instead, we can add an individual gamesetup option for these two modes, so that they can be played on every map! (Checkboxes, not a victory condition dropdown choice, so that we can combine things arbitrarily).

Survival mode would be similar to this proposed "capture the flag" / "capture the military colony" gamemode in that it's RMS implementation could be optional. The map may or may not place some TriggerPoints. If there are some, place the military colony / survival waves there, otherwise find a place that is far away from the players (respectively very close). See also the regicide gamemode script that places the hero near another unit of the player (and garrisons the @#$% if that unit is a ship). The nomad mode however needs RMS involvement to skip the placement of initial resources (and place proportionally more random mines). (Placing starting entities and them removing them after the fact sounds terrible).

Scenario maps are supposed to be inflexible. The map determines the modus operandi, so it should also place these trigger points if it choses the colony / survival mode. (A scenario map could also come with custom survival / colony scripts and disable the generic scripts). The map would also has to decide whether it is a nomad map or not.

Skirmish maps are created in atlas, but their gamesettings are open to changes. The SkirmishReplacer is used to switch the entities placed in atlas with the equivalent of the civ chosen by the player. We either completely outrule nomad on Skirmish maps or remove all replacable structures from the map. (Since the SkirmishReplacer part is done before the first turn, it wouldn't appear too bad). The survival / capture mode would have to be implemented by adding TriggerPoints to each map.

So the lucky one to implement these three gamemodes has to rewrite about 70 random maps 4 times, edit 50 skirmish maps once and add 3 generic triggerscripts. Seems feasible in few sleepless nights.

[svott]

I would not mix everything together. 

If there are special game modes for random maps, okay. But I would not add dynamical (or so called flexible) things to scenario or skrimish maps, because I think that every creator of a scenario/skrimish map had a particular plan/idea how the map should be played or what the challenge is. But, a modder should still have the possibility to create a special, good balanced scenario or skrimish map that is only playable in such a special game mode.

[elexis]

As said above, scenario maps determine themselves what settings they come with. Skirmish maps work with all settings as it always has been. These three discussed options and the victory conditions should be independent of each other, so we can play last man standing survival nomad regicide wondermode on every random map and many skirmish maps (see also #4014)

[Lion.Kanzen]

I'm exploring some ideas from AoE community in steam workshop. A friend of Mayorcete do interesting maps, 

im intriguing about capture the flag...

[elexis]

Capture the flag patch incoming by Sandarac: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D152

Only thing we're stuck with is the visual actor:

We need something that also has a walk animation, but there is nothing we could find in the actor viewer and we're not really skilled with blender.

@Enrique 

@LordGood

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

@stanislas69

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Alexander the Great's catafalque and castrum doloris -- funerary bier -- would be perfect for this object. It nice and historical and not generic. 

 

Quote

 

One of the great mysteries of antiquity, is the final resting place of that mighty royal warrior, Alexander the Great. His biographer, Arrian, fails to mention the funeral preparations, but Diodorus Siculus takes up the challenge in his Library of History. Diodorus mentions that Alexander’s body was mummified in the Egyptian fashion (he had been, after all, the previous pharaoh of all Egypt) and placed in a solid gold anthropoid sarcophagus (similar to Pharaoh Tutankhamen’s), which was then placed in another golden casket and overlaid with a purple robe. This assemblage was then placed upon a great bier or wagon, which had suspension to mitigate rough terrain, measuring eight by twelve cubits and covered with a roof of ‘overlapping scales’. The project engineer for this great undertaking was called Arrhidaeus, and the result of his labours was said to have ‘surpassed all others in cost, and was famed for the excellence of its workmanship’.

This immense and ornate carriage apparently took Arrhidaeus two years to construct but eventually it departed, drawn by 64 mules, and set off from Persia on the long journey to Alexander’s final resting place. Such was the scale of the project, that the cortege had its own team of road-builders, to smooth the way. The final destination was said to be Egypt, and more specifically the Temple of Amun at Siwa, in the Western Desert. However, Ptolemy Soter, one of Alexander’s generals who would eventually found the Greco-Egyptian line of Ptolemaic pharaohs of Egypt, marched his army as far as Syria to meet the cortege. Ptolemy proposed to entomb Alexander’s sarcophagus in Alexandria, instead of Siwa. (But Pausanias says the final destination was Memphis).1

But is this really what happened all those years ago? It is claimed by others that Perdikkas, another of Alexander’s generals, was actually escorting Alexander’s cortege back to Aigai in Macedonia, the burial place of Alexander’s ancestors. Perdikkas had been named as regent for Alexander IV, the infant son of Alexander the Great, and so it is often assumed, as Aelian writes, that Ptolemy Soter forcibly appropriated the sarcophagus of Alexander the Great from general Perdikkas and took it to Alexandria for personal propaganda purposes.2 Interestingly, Aelian also adds that the sarcophagus of Alexander was separated from the great wagon and ‘transported meanly’. Perdikkas recaptured the ornate wagon and thought he had regained the remains of Alexander, but they were still held by Ptolemy.

 

http://www.ancient-origins.net/opinion-guest-authors/tomb-alexander-great-part-1-001807?nopaging=1

Edited February 22, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Enrique]

Forgot to update here about the flag cart, it's being worked on. Just in case somebody was thinking to jump to the task to avoid duplicate work.

WIP ( *Note: It's PBR shading, not GLSL)

Spoiler

 

 

[Sandarac]

Nice! Thank you for working on this.

[elexis]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone We have a naming issue with the proposed gamemode. Capture The Flag doesn't fit to the implementation nor to the game itself. Capture The Relic seems much better, but that name should probably be reserved for the previously planned gamemode where relics need to be picked up and garrisoned. Should we go try Capture The Catalafque? I'm not sure whether I want that "catalafque" name throughout the GUI and simulation code (whereas I wouldn't mind reading CaptureTheRelic in the code).

[jkufner]

Or we can add a flag on the vagon ☺

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Capture your mom? I'm all out of ideas.

 

Maybe "Steal Alexander."

Edited March 6, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Capture your mom? I'm all out of ideas.

 

Maybe "Steal Alexander."

Or may be Bury the King. You need steal the body to be claimed sucesor.

[elexis]

Enjoy. D152

 

Thanks Sandarac for implementing the code, Enrique for the model and Pureon for the icon!

[Sandarac]

AI support is coming soon as well: D236.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Envisioned something grander, but all right, let's try this.

 

I think the wagon part should have an ao map. Make the wheels separate if you have to.

 

Also, and this is important, the Catafalque should not show up on the map unless the Capture the Relic victory condition is selected. Otherwise it is useless to have them show up on a skirmish map that has some other victory condition. 

Edited March 25, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[elexis]

 

6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Also, and this is important, the Catafalque should not show up on the map unless the Capture the Relic victory condition is selected. Otherwise it is useless to have them show up on a skirmish map that has some other victory condition. 

Yes (obviously), that's already the case.

Placement should also be optimized (sometimes it's in the middle of a forest, sometimes favors some players).

Also would be nice to let players select a number of those in the gamesetup and

have each Catafalque being an individual (so would be great to have names for the dead guys in them that are different from the heroes (so that Alexander the Great doesn't guard his own corpse)) and an individual aura for each one.

The model can't be much bigger without it being annoyingly stuck in forests and chokepoints all the time (same is true for siege engines which were much bigger than men in history).

A variant with relics to be picked up can now more easily become added once we have support to pickup entities.

[elexis]

Also since it wasn't obvious how this works:

• To win the gamemode, your team has to capture all relics and keep them for a certain amount of time
• The time can be specified in the gamesetup (from 0 to 120 minutes)
• Our relic is a Catalafque that holds the remains of a great person
• If you have N players, about N/2 relics are spawned on random places
• The relics can be captured and moved, but cannot be destroyed nor garrisoned
• If an enemy captures a relic, the victory countdown is reset and starts again as soon as one team captured all relics again
• Inlast man standing games, one player needs to capture all of them in order to win

[Lion.Kanzen]

Is hard to find them.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

4 hours ago, elexis said:

Yes (obviously), that's already the case.

 

Perhaps a build is necessary. It didn't work that way when I tested. Sorry. Atlas also screwed up a map by removing the skirmish entities when the map was saved, for some reason. Again, probably as build issue.

[elexis]

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Is hard to find them.

Agree. That's the primary observation I made in that testgame until someone cheat-deleted the relics, gah.

Perhaps the bribe / spy feature could be used as it allows, (1) seeing the relic even if it's in enemy territory / fog of war, (2) automatically focuses it (instead of having to scan the entire map (which might take a long time), once one clicks on the button, the camera focuses on the relic).

On the other side, I'm not sure if that is actually needed. It's quite fun to have to search it and not only attacking it. In team games, one doesn't have to search alone. In last man standing games with shared vision, the relics are typically guarded in the base of the one who has captured them (so less finding work). Needs (more) playtesting and 0ad-tv (observing relic games).

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Perhaps a build is necessary.

New autobuild done. Might also be some settings bug, but relics ought to be spawned if and only if relics victory is active.

 

[Palaxin]

2 minutes ago, elexis said:

[...] relics ought to be spawned if and only if relics victory is active.

They could be also interesting in other game modes once relic bonuses/auras have been added.

[elexis]

"Ought to" as in how the current code is expected to behave. Sure, they can absolutely be reused, perhaps for some campaign too. Room for possibilities just opened :-)

[Lion.Kanzen]

In a oasis map and African plains was hard to found them(2) is more easily defeat the enemy than find them and waiting the countdown (30min) but I'm worry if the Ai can be have this task more easy.

 

another issue. some classes dont capture, only attack see about.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Lion.Kanzen

[jkufner]

The countdown once all relics are captured should be in few minutes. The goal should be to capture the relics and wait for the current battle to be decided. Not to starve to death in mean time. So… how much time it takes to build and send another wave of soldiers to recapture the relic assuming the both parties are weakened by last combat? Make the countdown 1.5× of that.