What word to use for negative effects

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

btw I think use word "Penalty" instead of "malus" which is not real English word.

[GunChleoc]

Then bonus is also not a real English word... a penalty is something one gets after having done something wrong, so I don't think that it would be more appropriate than malus.

deduction?

Edited May 16, 2016 by GunChleoc

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Bonus is a real English word, malus is not.

[GunChleoc]

Actually, they are both Latin words.

While "malus" is pretty uncommon, it is not unheard of: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/malus

I just don't like "penalty", but I can't come up with anything better either at the moment.

Edited May 17, 2016 by GunChleoc

[feneur]

Is there ever a reason to use words to describe it anyway though? Wouldn't it make sense to use a minus sign in at least most of the cases?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

19 hours ago, feneur said:

Is there ever a reason to use words to describe it anyway though? Wouldn't it make sense to use a minus sign in at least most of the cases?

Is not game to have a encyclopedia or something like this with descriptions? Then terminology should be correct, common, and consistent!  

[GunChleoc]

There are 212 translatable strings that use the word "bonus", so it is conceivable that we will need a term.

Some term ideas:

• deduction
• handicap

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Handicap or Penalty are best terms methink. Though, "Attack Handicap" sound weird. "Attack Penalty" sound better to me, YMMV.

[Zeta1127]

Yeah, I don't see the problem with Penalty, because either that or Debuff are pretty much the only way I have ever heard such things referred to as.

[scythetwirler]

For what it's worth, I think "attack damage reduction", "gathering speed/efficiency reduction" is perhaps more precise as penalty may be mistranslated for its other definitions.

In any case, debates of exact wording doesn't really belong in a balancing topic.

[Lion.Kanzen]

@feneur can be nice split the topic. I lost the sequence of Balancing long time ago. 

[feneur]

Split into its own topic as per Lion's suggestion.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Thank You.

in my opinion malus sounds like Latin. Even isn't used in my Oxford dictionary (iPad).

 

[FeXoR]

The correct mathematic term would be subtrahend... I'd still go with malus.

A penalty would only happen to people introduced by people (as I see it that is).

(And "buff" seams to basically means many things and nothing specific, more like a slang word)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

You guy use what you want. I don't even use any of these term in my mod (I just think Penalty sound way better than malus).

Tooltips say like this:

 

 

I think this the information player need (not a bunch of numbers).

Edited May 21, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Spoiler

Off-topic

I like how you manage the tool tips, and are using rock-scissor-paper counters?

Malus = Latin?

https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/malus

in English sounds good, hehehe but the etymology say "Bad"

Edited May 21, 2016 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

  Reveal hidden contents

Off-topic

I like how you manage the tool tips, and are using rock-scissor-paper counters?

 

Spoiler

Yes!

 

Sword Infantry

• Attack: Hack, High
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Infantry and Elephants
• Charge Bonus: 2x
• Hack Armor: High
• Pierce Armor: Low
• Speed: Medium

Spear Infantry

• Attack: Hack, Medium
• Bonus: 2x vs. Cavalry
• Charge Bonus: 2.5x
• Hack Armor: Medium
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: Medium

Pike Infantry

• Attack: Hack, Low
• Bonus: 4x vs. Cavalry
• Charge Bonus: 2x
• Hack Armor: High
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: Low

 

Ranged Citizen-Infantry

Archer Infantry

• Attack: Pierce, Low
• Range: High
• Accuracy: Low
• Rate: Medium
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Melee Infantry
• Hack Armor: Low
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: Medium

Javelin Infantry

• Attack: Pierce, Medium
• Range: Medium
• Accuracy: Medium
• Rate: Medium
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Ranged Cavalry, Spear Infantry, and Elephants
• Hack Armor: Low
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: High

Slinger Infantry

• Attack: Pierce, Low
• Range: Medium
• Accuracy: High
• Rate: High
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Ranged Infantry and Sword Infantry
• Hack Armor: Low
• Pierce Armor: Low
• Speed: High

 

CITIZEN CAVALRY STATS

• Penalty: Horse Cavalry 0.5x vs. Elephants and Camels
• Penalty: Camel .80x Speed
• Bonus: Camel 1.5x vs. Horse Cavalry
• Speed (walk/run/charge): 1.5x Infantry Counterparts

 

Melee Citizen-Cavalry

• Bonus: 2x vs. Siege
• Special: Trample Aura/Ability

Sword Cavalry

• Attack: Hack, High
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Ranged Infantry and Ranged Cavalry
• Charge Bonus: 2.5x
• Trample: Low
• Hack Armor: Low
• Pierce Armor: High
• Speed: High

Spear Cavalry

• Attack: Hack, Medium
• Bonus: 2x vs. Ranged Infantry
• Charge Bonus: 4x
• Trample: Medium
• Hack Armor: Medium
• Pierce Armor: High
• Speed: Medium

 

Ranged Citizen-Cavalry

Archer Cavalry

• Attack: Pierce, Low
• Range: High
• Accuracy: Low
• Rate: Medium
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Melee Infantry
• Hack Armor: Low
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: High

Javelin Cavalry

• Attack: Pierce, Medium
• Range: Medium
• Accuracy: Low
• Rate: Medium
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Support
• Hack Armor: Low
• Pierce Armor: Low
• Speed: High

 

Other Melee Units

Melee Elephant

• Attack: Hack, Medium; Crush, High
• Bonus: 2x vs. Cavalry, 1.5x vs. Structures
• Charge Bonus: 3x
• Trample: High
• Hack Armor: Medium
• Pierce Armor: High
• Speed: Low

 

Other Ranged Units

Archer Chariot

• Attack: Pierce, Low
• Range: High
• Accuracy: Low
• Rate: Medium
• Trample: High
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Melee Infantry
• Hack Armor: Medium
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: Medium

Javelin Chariot

• Attack: Pierce, Medium
• Range: Medium
• Accuracy: Medium
• Rate: Medium
• Trample: High
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Support
• Hack Armor: Medium
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Speed: Medium

Archer Elephant

• Speed: Low
• Pierce Armor: Medium
• Hack Armor: High
• Bonus: 1.5x vs. Melee Infantry
• Trample: High
• Rate: Medium
• Accuracy: Medium
• Range: High
• Attack: Pierce, Low

 

 

[Mr.Monkey]

In both the Collins dictionary and the Oxford dictionaries ( both considered to be the most "official" dictionary in England)  malus does come up but with a different meaning.

Malus

Pronunciation: /ˈmeɪləs/  /ˈmɑːləs/ 

NOUN

A plant of the genus Malus (family Rosaceae), which consists of deciduous trees and shrubs grown ornamentally and for their fruit (apples and crab apples) in the temperate zones of both hemispheres; (in form Malus) the genus itself.

• Adopted as a genus name in J. Pitton de Tournefort Inst. Rei Herbariae (1700) I. 634.Valid publication of the genus name: P. Miller Gardeners Dict.: Abridged (ed. 4, 1754) II.

However Bonus does come up as a real word with the meaning implied (see 1.3)

Bonus 

Pronunciation: /ˈbəʊnəs/ 

NOUN

1 A sum of money added to a person’s wages as a reward for good performance:big Christmas bonuses

1.1 British An extra dividend or issue paid to the shareholders of a company.

1.2 British A distribution of profits to holders of an insurance policy.

1.3 An extra and unexpected advantage:good weather is an added bonus but the real appeal is the landscape

 

Just because a world originating from Latin is absorbed into the English language as a viable word, doesn't mean that its obverse is feasible.

That should be the end of the discussion, bonus is an English word and malus is an English word, however it is used to denote a genus not a negative effect.

 

Edited May 22, 2016 by Mr.Monkey

[GunChleoc]

19 hours ago, Mr.Monkey said:

however it is used to denote a genus.

This is actually not an argument for or against - a word can have more than one maning. For example, you can dance at a "ball" or throw it.

[Zeta1127]

The problem is Malus simply isn't a commonly used term in English at all.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Zeta1127

[Mr.Monkey]

16 hours ago, GunChleoc said:

a word can have more than one maning. For example, you can dance at a "ball" or throw it.

Yes but I have never seen an actual, solid and trustworthy source that suggests a homograph of malus to have the meaning of "a negative effect". 

Edited May 24, 2016 by Mr.Monkey

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

And "malus" just mean "bad" in Latin. Otherwise, no use in Englisch.

 

Bonus = a plus, a advantage

Penalty = imposed disadvantage

Edited May 24, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[bb_]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

And "malus" just mean "bad" in Latin. Otherwise, no use in Englisch.

 

Bonus = a plus, a advantage

The basic meaning of "bonus" in latin is "good" and it does not mean "advantage" in Latin, that is only what english (and other languages) made it.

In Latin malus is the exact oposite of bonus, so for that reason malus seems a logical choice.

Malus (and bonus) have also some more meanings (in Latin) than only "bad" or "good": malus also means "damaging", "defective", untrustworthy, meaningless and disadvantageous. I see enough meanings in here to vote for "malus".

[feneur]

We should not use Malus in places where players can see it, regardless of whether or not it can be justified from a Latin point of view. The main reason is that almost no one knows that word. If it's used in code comments etc is another thing, but again, it depends on whether or not the people reading it understand the meaning.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Yeah, will  be a mistake , send to user to find the definition to a dictionary.

other reason: the translations from this word to several languages.

the correct answer is be simple, you don't use sophisticated languages in a gaming, specially   if isn't a gameplay concept.

so is better use more simple lenguage, specially an RTS, you now how stressful can be a match for some players.