ressources are not virtual... but real

[JC (naval supremacist)]

This a response to the topic 'Bring something new' but is an idea

By now, once ressources are gathered, they are acquired . You can have 1 survival woman remaining on the map but still have 52000 food , 65000 wood , 23542 metal and 12555 stone ... wtf ? lol

Ressources should belong to a CC and no more to a virtual portofolio up on the screen.

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Here some idea.

- Each ressources gathered belongs to the CC where it has been gathered

- You can delivery more ressources to a CC (even to allies ones) thanks to traders (with added values?) and ennemies can steal the value by killing it (like now). Roads existance will be then relevant.

- Rather than make each unit a one-shot investment, make them a charge for your city : each unit work but also consum on time ! As a result, garnision cowardely unlimited units will lead to starvation.

- Buildings and units can be convertable : convert units to you, but also convert buildings or siege engines or even make them a source of wood and/or stone (like ruins)

- Make a lake of ressources a reason to revolt (some units convert to gaia ?)

- Each CC detroyed/captured will deliver the goods in it

- ...

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I think make the ressources more material and less virtual can be a good way to underline moreover the importance of position on the map by assuming the consequencies a new position and NOT just the benefit (this will reduce the ennemy neigbour tower CC spam syndrom) and put an added macro value to the game and even a micro ! as the player would have to protect the cities but the roads as well ! (like did the succesfull Romans ) but could make some good pirat-strike on goods

Edited July 14, 2015 by JC (naval supremacist)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Interesting idea. Is like silos in Command&Conquer series. If the silos destroy then the player loses those stored resources.

[wackyserious]

Also quite similar to the granary and stockpile system of the Stronghold series which makes economical destabilization as a possible strategy which you can use against your opponent.

[JC (naval supremacist)]

exactly,

if one can win many ways, the game will be even more great

kill pop

rush & kill eco

conversion

starvation

...

[Peregriino]

Also quite similar to the granary and stockpile system of the Stronghold series which makes economical destabilization as a possible strategy which you can use against your opponent.

I love the stronghold's system. Others things like make your own army with blacksmith is a great idea.

@Topic

In 0ad I think a granary and stockpile just gathering some % a total resources and other part continue in virtual storage.

[JC (naval supremacist)]

you mean, the food in storage and other ressources in virtual portofolio ? Living units should consum food slowly along their lives. (this is the second idea)

I think all ressources should be stored in the CC and/or warhouse but displayed on screen in a single virtual portofolio for each city (click on the CC).

A global portofolio would concern all the CC but only for a unique new ressource (money or gold ?) --> the unique ressource you can put in your pocket.

This can be a great idea to develop as opponents can patrol and see if a city is rich (exemple :lot of famrs) but poorely defended , before make decision to attack and steal all !

Also, cut a road, surrond a military city but with few farms, could be a choice as the city would not have enough of food to raise new units and feed them along on time. Staying too long behind

walls would act like a penalty. But the attakers would have to ensure also the food logisitic between their position and their food production : this can be a weakness.

In history we have many exemples were attackers finish surronded by new comers ... Here, in the game, it would be something like cutting the food-line of the attacker

The food-line could be ensured by traders or a new unit like a caravan

Once again, this could avoid a typical game schema : the first CC turns into a 10 farms city and others into simple CC border-spam-tower territory. The expension will be more organic and less procedural

Edited July 15, 2015 by JC (naval supremacist)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Hi there. I try to experiemtn in making units take X food every minute. I'm trying to do it with the ResourceTrickle component in the unit template. Problem is the number cannnot be negative. Gives error when placing the unit in Atlas. In ResourceTrickle.js it says the numbers must be nonNegativeDecimal. Can this be change?

[JC (naval supremacist)]

Hi ! (do you play in lobby ? never seen you)

I'm not programmor and never put my nose in the code, but how a negative value can occur as 0 mean death ?

did you try something like absolute values to avoid negatives ? abs(-3) = 3 (dont know if it make sense in the code)

or boolean (health>0) * health = TRUE or FALSE * health = health or 0

for decrease : health = (health>0) * health * countdown(%) (this will return only positive decimals or 0)

__

But are you doing this to each unit ? Its not just a question to affect the global food indicator only ?

Thanks for your effort The food cost of living is a great idea and will put a new dimension to the game as it will cause eco penalty in case of accumulation of too much champions.

This can rebalance a game.

Edited July 16, 2015 by JC (naval supremacist)

[Darksun]

This would make for an interesting victory condition. Victory by destroying civic centers. It would give a normal death match a new spin by creating this objective. Defend your cc, destroy the enemy cc. In this scenario civ centers should have more health.

[s0600204]

Hi there. I try to experiemtn in making units take X food every minute. I'm trying to do it with the ResourceTrickle component in the unit template. Problem is the number cannnot be negative. Gives error when placing the unit in Atlas. In ResourceTrickle.js it says the numbers must be nonNegativeDecimal. Can this be change?

You can try it locally by changing the lines for food from

"<element name='food' a:help='Food given to the player every interval'>" +	"<ref name='nonNegativeDecimal'/>" +"</element>" +

to

"<element name='food' a:help='Food given to the player every interval'>" +	"<data type='decimal'/>" +"</element>" +

Be warned that there is nothing to prevent a player's resource count as marked at the top left of the screen from entering negative values. Feel free to come up with a solution to that problem. (ie. What should happen when a player runs out of food? Units start dying? Units desert to gaia? How should the game select which units should die/desert?)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

You can try it locally by changing the lines for food from

"<element name='food' a:help='Food given to the player every interval'>" +	"<ref name='nonNegativeDecimal'/>" +"</element>" +

to

"<element name='food' a:help='Food given to the player every interval'>" +	"<data type='decimal'/>" +"</element>" +

This doesn't work. I think 'decimal' may need to be something else or something else may need to be edit.

ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: Failed to compile schemaERROR: RelaxNGValidator: No grammar loadedERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'special/player_gaia'ERROR: JavaScript error: uncaught exception: Player.js: Error creating player entity 0WARNING: GetPlayerByID: no player defined for id '1' PlayerManager.prototype.GetPlayerByID@simulation/components/PlayerManager.js:78:6ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: No grammar loadedERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'preview|units/athen_infantry_spearman_b'ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: No grammar loadedERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'preview|units/athen_merc_infantry_1'ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: No grammar loadedERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'preview|units/athen_merc_infantry_3'ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: No grammar loadedERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'preview|units/athen_infantry_spearman_e'ERROR: RelaxNGValidator: No grammar loadedERROR: Failed to validate entity template 'units/athen_infantry_spearman_e'Engine exited successfully on 2015-07-16 at 12:44:03 with 591 message(s), 14 error(s) and 1 warning(s).

Be warned that there is nothing to prevent a player's resource count as marked at the top left of the screen from entering negative values. Feel free to come up with a solution to that problem. (ie. What should happen when a player runs out of food? Units start dying? Units desert to gaia? How should the game select which units should die/desert?)

I think for now it would be enough that resources go negative and the player can't build or train anything until the resources are gathered back above 0. It would simulate thing enough I think. Though reducing health by 1 hp for every unit every 20 seconds would be more direct simulation.

Edited July 16, 2015 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[s0600204]

This doesn't work. I think 'decimal' may need to be something else or something else may need to be edit.

It works perfectly over here. Check you've modified the line correctly.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

It works perfectly over here. Check you've modified the line correctly.

Hey works thanks. <data type='decimal'/> I forgot to change to data type.

I think I will implement in Delenda Est.

I think it will be default to 10 food every minute for melee infantry and 5 food, 5 wood every minute for range infantry unit. 10 metal per minute for mercenary unit (metal is worth more than food and wood, but mercs cost 0 pop and they are greedy vyrodky).

Edited July 16, 2015 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

New problem: When food goes negative in stockpile player is not allow to research improvements or build buildings. Unforseen bug. The UI says there is X food insufficient funds to build the house (or whatever).

[Ryze]

As stated in the other thread, I love the idea and I hope the team seriously considers this, if they think it feasible...

[s0600204]

New problem: When food goes negative in stockpile player is not allow to research improvements or build buildings. Unforseen bug. The UI says there is X food insufficient funds to build the house (or whatever).

Oddly enough, that makes logical sense.

To prevent 'resource quantity not set' errors, one of the base templates that most, if not all, the other templates inherit from will have food/wood/metal/stone costs all set to 0. So a structure that according to an in-game tooltip only requires 100 wood, will also require 0 food, 0 metal and 0 stone.

I'd be tempted to suggest finding the template and changing the base values to neg inf, but that would probably cause other issues. Might be best to modify Cost.js to skip checking the current stockpiled quantity of a resource if the cost requirement for that resource is set to 0 (or less).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Oddly enough, that makes logical sense.

To prevent 'resource quantity not set' errors, one of the base templates that most, if not all, the other templates inherit from will have food/wood/metal/stone costs all set to 0. So a structure that according to an in-game tooltip only requires 100 wood, will also require 0 food, 0 metal and 0 stone.

I'd be tempted to suggest finding the template and changing the base values to neg inf, but that would probably cause other issues. Might be best to modify Cost.js to skip checking the current stockpiled quantity of a resource if the cost requirement for that resource is set to 0 (or less).

Hmm, I have no idea how to do this. lol

[Giotto]

Sounds good. How about divide the resources evenly between civic centers but keep the overall values in the top? That way you can't lose everything in one civic centre attack but also lose a little of you overall wealth.

[Giotto]

Or if you want: go full on and remove troop cost to train completely and simply have units take away from your supplies. you could have a gain/loss per minute and overall balance. Would be much more realistic and opens the way for more tactics surrounding rush training troops etc.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Or if you want: go full on and remove troop cost to train completely and simply have units take away from your supplies. you could have a gain/loss per minute and overall balance. Would be much more realistic and opens the way for more tactics surrounding rush training troops etc.

I think units should cost a little bit upfront at least. It takes resource to train a soldier or raise a woman from birth. But something like 10F 50W for a hoplite, then -2F every 30 seconds. I think stockpiles should not go below 0. This would help prevent the cost problem I was having above.

Mercenary can cost 50W 10M for a mercenary hoplite, then -2M every 30 seconds. If Metal stockpile at 0 for too long, then mercenary and mercenary camp start to go Gaia/Hostile to all.

We could use Storehouse and Farmstead to represent stockpile centers. UI can show how much each one possess when clicked on. I think each could hold a maximum (maybe 1000W, 1000S for each Storehouse, and 3000F for each Farmstead, and maybe 5000M for each Temple, just an idea). I think enemy player could "capture" 25% of the stockpile when they capture the stockpile center and own it for longer than 20 seconds. If they destroy it, then they destroy the whole stockpile. Just some ideas.

[Giotto]

As far as I can tell with this idea you have the amount of a resource as normal figure and the food(or metal) gain/loss over the last minute or so.

Question:

If your troops are supplied by some amount of food each turn, what happens when you stop farming? Do they die?

Ideas:

Could you distribute your resources to buildings based on proximity to civic centre? Buildings further away tend to be more vulnerable so naturally the resources are shifted closer to the centers. This could just be done with traders or something by the player but then why not move all of it to the centers? Why should resources remain on the outside?(I suppose they must if you don't have enough traders or something).

A negative income I think is a good idea. If you have an excess of food for instance you should be able to train loads of troops for a quick attack and feed them off your stockpiles.

Civ centers are your main storage point as they should be the center of your empire. (Also slightly off topic: Civ centers should give a bonus gathering speed, building speed, population cap to houses etc as at the moment they end up rather desolate).

I like the capturing idea.

Edited July 20, 2015 by Giotto

[greenknight32]

In the old "Lords of Magic" game, troops that weren't paid deserted and became "wandering monsters" - bandits, basically. The equivalent in this game would be to shift their allegiance to Gaea, I guess.

[niektb]

I'm not sure whether food consumption is something that fits in 0 A.D. it's more something that should go in a simulator game (or mod) but I don't think it is a good thing to have in 0 A.D. (because it is not quite a simulator game.)

It's good to have it technically possible of course...

[JC (naval supremacist)]

Why not ? 0AD is not a war simulator ? Every strategy, every strength should have a downside. Food consumption represents the real time for your units. Real-time strategy game.

[auron2401]

it's something that works in stronghold because the game is designed around it, throwing in game mechanics like this which would have a massive impact will just make the game worse, unless the entire game is remade from the ground up.