Faction: The Franks

[wolflance]

How would the Carolingian cavalrymen compare to the cavalry of other civs? (i.e. Normans)

Edited October 10, 2015 by wolflance

[niektb]

After reading a couple of articles it seems that the Frankish cavalry was more a sort of mounted infantry, that also excelled when fighting on foot (see Battle of Tours). Under the reign of Charlemagne it seems that the Frankish Cavalry Elite started to develop.

Given that, I'm a little in doubt which to pick. I'm a little biased to having a costly heavy cavalry unit with limited training amount (as these soldiers were formed up from the noblemen, which are quite hard to replace).

I'm unsure though if they should be stronger than the later Norman Cavalry as it is likely the Norman Cavalry is heavily inspired by their Frankish counterparts.

[LordGood]

From what I understand the Carolingians did not need many castles, the imperial army was both mobile and powerful enough to keep order; privatization of defensive structures wasn't necessary, and may have been detrimental to the unity of the empire. Though I would love to see how you guys will condense a motte and bailey or donjon and bailey into a fortress footprint.

I'm not sure where I got this idea though, a quick wiki check lines up though.

I'm working on my own little Frankish project for school ^^

[Stan`]

Well if you happen to have any assets we could use I just went with the carolingians as the franks had even lesser buildings

[LordGood]

I'd be nice to see the progression artwise; I saw some nice frankish screenies a while back, but I have no idea where you guys are on this particular topic.

[Stan`]

I can make you a big screenshot. lemme see

[Stan`]

[LordGood]

nice

I cant release these models or textures, but maybe you could use them for ideas? I'm not sure you can do much with a castle aside from the motte, which I haven't modeled yet. Maybe a smaller stone donjon than the one i have here.

[niektb]

I think it might be a little early in the timeframe to have full-stone donjons of that size (I think a smaller wooden version would be more appropriate). Also it is not so much Motte-and-bailey style (though on the other hand such an approach might be a compromise to let it fit in 0 A.D. in a similar style as the Britons in the vanilla game.)

Edited November 18, 2015 by niektb

[LordGood]

I think it might be a little early in the timeframe to have full-stone donjons of that size

I did make mine a bit big, but the donjon at doué la fontaine (though in ruins) does show stone donjon construction in the time period.

All the information on the castle wiki is in French, so all i have to navigate by are cognates words of English and some Spanish. I think it says that the castle was on or was excavated from a motte?

link to the wiki https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_de_Dou%C3%A9-la-Fontaine

Edited November 18, 2015 by LordGood
conjugates? Cognates? I don't even know my own language lol

[Stan`]

Too bad you can't release it. But looking at the number of polys, we wouldn't be able to use it anyways. Why is it so high poly ?

I have this for now:

I used some google references such as

This one maybe better for 0 A.D.

Probably going to make special palissade walls and doors for the carolingians.

Edited November 18, 2015 by stanislas69

[LordGood]

only ~28500 polys for the castle, I modeled some architectural experiments off-frame. I remember reading on the threads about having a stone upgrade in the city phase or something like that anyhow

[Stan`]

only ~28500 polys for the castle, I modeled some architectural experiments off-frame. I remember reading on the threads about having a stone upgrade in the city phase or something like that anyhow

'Only' lol Well I really want to have that, there is a ticket about being able to upgrade buildings into others, ie, to a new state, and we could use it to make the wood castle turn to stone:)

[Le Druide Gaulois]

I like the buildings so far, but what's the deal with the blue roofs?

[Stan`]

Lordgood lovs blue roofd and apparent stones in the corners

[Lion.Kanzen]

nice

I cant release these models or textures, but maybe you could use them for ideas? I'm not sure you can do much with a castle aside from the motte, which I haven't modeled yet. Maybe a smaller stone donjon than the one i have here.

what exquisite building, I love, have nice contrast beteween textures color palette. And have very details.

[LordGood]

lol I matched the colors and tile pattern with the roofs of Kloster Lorsch gate, blue slate is nice

The blue thatch is a little strange though, i'll admit, though the stones weighing it down are always a nice touch. It might become a little yellow heavy if you match it with the merovingian reconstruction examples from earlier in the thread, but of course a yellow themed palette wouldn't be amiss

[wackyserious]

Looks very nice reminds me of Norman keeps

Well, they are Frankish vassals to begin with.

Seeing LordGood's model made me desire to start an Early medieval mod.. (Angevin period) But I cannot, I cannot.. I still haven't completed the unit packs for the Norse, plus the Mordor faction mod and December is close..

Feelin' a bit uninspired these past days..

[Le Druide Gaulois]

Lordgood lovs blue roofd and apparent stones in the corners

I also like the stones. I don't wanna be a pain, but blue staw roof just doesn't seem realistic to me.

[Stan`]

It was not supposed to be, it's an unrelated project

[LordGood]

I figure I might as well show you guys what I'm up to lol

I'm looking forward to what you guys can come up with, squeezing something like a motte and bailey into the fortress footprint and making it feel like a powerful castle at the same time.

But I suppose trees are going to be a highlight for a little while eh? haha

[Andrettin]

I figure I might as well show you guys what I'm up to lol

I'm looking forward to what you guys can come up with, squeezing something like a motte and bailey into the fortress footprint and making it feel like a powerful castle at the same time.

But I suppose trees are going to be a highlight for a little while eh? haha

Very nice. Reminds me a bit of playing Lords of the Realm 2

[LordGood]

I had a bit of an idea concerning this civ, what if we didnt have any castles at all? The carolingian empire didnt have much in terms of fortifications because its army was so mobile and had a good standing in logistics. The privatization of defense also promote drawing boundaries within the empire.

maybe give the infantry/cavalry the same packing and unpacking mechanic that catapults have, and give citizens a higher gather capacity, then we wouldn't have to deal with the complexities of establishing cities and castles. I think they should have a palace building to train champions and heroes out of though, like the persians in vanilla. That would make for reliance on your highly mobile army on defending a very vulnerable homeland.

It can still revolve around gold production, the carry bonus might even make it more viable to take mines that are further away

[wackyserious]

Frankish infantry prototype

[wackyserious]

Some of the Frankish shield patterns are based on Merovingian-Carolingian artifacts

Dorestad brooch http://www.rmo.nl/english/collection/highlights/netherlands-collections/dorestad-brooch

• Central part of the brooch

Carolingian Ivory Plaque https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolingian_art#/media/File:Mus%C3%A9e_Picardie_M%C3%A9di%C3%A9val_01.jpg

• Motifs on the corner of the Plaque

IX Monogram on Merovingian sarcophagus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cover_of_Merovingian_sarcophagus_Musee_de_Saint_Germain_en_Laye.jpg

• IX Monograms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IX_monogram

Utrecht Psalter depictions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utrecht_Psalter#/media/File:Utrecht_Ps63_%28cropped%29_%28cropped2%29.jpg

• Plain circular pattern on shield depictions

 

(Posted this so that other projects outside 0AD can review our sources)

Edited April 21, 2016 by wackyserious