Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[Centurion_13]

if an enemy melee unit attacks an archer. the archer will not be able to respond with its own melee attack just like age of empires etc.

ander all circumstances (unless modded I suppose) an archer can only perform economic duties or use its ranged weapon.

It seems simple enough to me

[Caesar]

Will there be any Cavalry Archers? If so, why not give allow them to fire while moving, unlile the AoK Cav Archers who had to fire while stationary.

[Mythos_Ruler]

@godlike: Personally, I'd like to see archers have a minimum range, ala Skirmishers in AOK. When the enemy comes too near (say, a hyppikon), the archer tries to flee and will continue to flee until it reaches minimum firing distance (or is cut down by his pursuer).

[Caesar]

Is there any plans for special units like standard-bears, centurions, gladiators ect.?

I also have an idea for mercenaries: As specified in the FAQ, the map will be divided into provinces. How having an option where the player can hire mercenaries based on the province in which they are based in (ie. in North and Western Europe you can hire celtic units; in the western Med. Roman units; in Greece and the Balkans, Hellenic units; in Africa Carthaginians; in Asia, Persians; and in the Iberian Peninsula, Iberians). A player would be able to hire, lets say, 10 units based on what province they are based in, and then have the units apear at the town center and only be available for a specified period of time. Hiring mercenaries would be more expensive than creating units, but much faster. What do you all think?

@Paul, you can post my first article now in you want. I should have the next one ready by friday.

[Belisarivs]

if an enemy melee unit attacks an archer. the archer will not be able to respond with its own melee attack just like age of empires etc.

ander all circumstances (unless modded I suppose) an archer can only perform economic duties or use its ranged weapon.

It seems simple enough to me

←

For me villager abilities for soldiers aren't so important, because I plan to mod it and put villagers back to the game. I just want to know if it will be possible to assign some unit to do ranged or melee attack like in Medieval: Total War. That's all.

Another example:

Kataphraktoi are attacking superior number of melee infantry. They shoot down many of infantrymen, but are attacked by light cavalry (which is faster, so there won't be any chance for Kataphraktoi to keep at least minimal distance), so they draw steel and kill light cavalry.

Now some ideas.

Roman soldiers could be able to build basic camps like they usually did, for free (so this will not need any resources), but only one camp (they will have to destroy original one in order to build new one). Or this would cost some wood but ut would be gathered all back when camp is dissassembled (while dissassembly of buildings would return less percentage of resources).

Another idea is about Heroes.

Will there by any possibility to train hero, who will have economical bonuses instead of military skills? I mean, when I train such hero, construction of buildings or farming ... will be faster.

Edited June 28, 2005 by godlike

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

godliike,

Wouldn't be better to make skirmish mode like in MTW? Way of attacking wasn't used often, because archers were usually protected by other units.

I didn't say that you HAVE to use archers in a skirmish formation, just that you COULD.

Roman soldiers could be able to build basic camps like they usually did, for free (so this will not need any resources), but only one camp (they will have to destroy original one in order to build new one).

Roman soldiers MAY be able to build camps (it is in the design plan). However, as long as a camp remains garrisoned it would remain in place. If abandoned then deteriorate to become 'unuseable. As for costs incurred, probably some but not 'prohibitably' expensive. The ability to build the Roman-style camps whil on campaign is something that makes the Romans unique in differentiating by the civs so that has been a part of the plan all-along. we'll see how it goes when we get further into play testing.

For me villager abilities for soldiers aren't so important, because I plan to mod it and put villagers back to the game.

Ummmkay... once you have the game in hand you can do anything that you want with it... and who knows, YOUR mod might gain broad acceptance online, or not, but we'd hope that you definitely have fun making it. Whatever, we realise that the concept is innovative enough that some folks just aren't gonna like it as being a 'stretch' away from what they already know, and are comfortable with.

John C89,

I also have an idea for mercenaries

While what you say further on is true, Mercenaaries are 'organic' only to the Carthginians who made the most use of them. The Carthaginians have a whole range of troop types at their disposal, some being citizens, some being levies from city states they ruled over, and some being mercenaries they hired to conduct their campaigns.

Otherwise, we'd thought log and hard about how we might implemen to mercenaries into the game in a manner somewhat similar to your suggestion... and decided against doing so... as making gameplay become to complex in a sense.

Keep in mind that this is a game that we are making and not a totalized historical simulation.

[Wijitmaker]

To answer your question breifly and reinforce what Ken is saying:

I just want to know if it will be possible to assign some unit to do ranged or melee attack like in Medieval: Total War. That's all.

The function will be there for some of the Super Units (example a legionairre with a pilum for ranged and a gladus for short) and therefore be an option to use in a mod.

Will friendly fire be included?

Currently in the game, we have friendly fire right now - so it will be possible (either modding or game start option), but not the default option for reasons Ken stated.

How about restricting the amount of arrows that an archer can fire, before they have to 'reload'?

An idea we toyed with at one time, but decided it would take to much micromangement and lead to to much frustration, so we cut it.

In MTW archers usually fire at the enemy, but try to hold distance.

Something I personally would like to see done, but untill it is actually programmed and working in the game, I can't guarentee it.

Will there be any Cavalry Archers? If so, why not give allow them to fire while moving, unlile the AoK Cav Archers who had to fire while stationary.

"Parthian Tactics" is something that isn't easily done. In fact there were only a few civs that did it well none of which are in part I of 0 A.D. (though you could possibly argue the Persians). Look for this tech/feature to be in part II, especially with the Huns.

I also have an idea for mercenaries:

Neat idea, it sounds similiar to ones we have had in the past, except I thin ours was based on who you where allied with. Again something to look for in part II. Like Ken said the Carthaginians are going to be a big mercinary civ so 'training' those units will be a bit different than the other civs in part I.

Will there by any possibility to train hero, who will have economical bonuses instead of military skills?

Majority will be military skill on the battlefield, but some will not be. I believe Socrates was at one time a hero for the game (don't remember right now if he still is). There are others...

[Mythos_Ruler]

Socrates was once included as a Hellenes hero. His bonus was that as long as he was alive, all techs researched faster or something along those lines. Although it was an interesting unit, we decided to replace him with a hero that was more "proactive" in nature.

[Will]

Don't know if anyone has suggested this already but"

When I play RTS games like C&C Generals ZH, I always think it would be cool if you could give you ally some of your units. Then you could combine forces easier by letting your ally control your army. I think it has been done in some RTS but I can't remember.

Keep up the great work WFG.

[CrazyThumbs]

I think it was done in Empires Dawn of the Modern World, It worked nicley, if your ally needed help you could just give him some of your units, or if you had to leave you could just give all your units to an ally.

Edited June 28, 2005 by CrazyThumbs

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

Again, something that we have considered... but taken the 'more traditional' stance on (rightly or wrongly). Principally, because to do so would sort of 'defeat' the idea of YOU (player) being an ally of someone else (player). But beyond that, too, because there are some mechanics to the gameplay that can make it advantageous to BE an ally. Beyond that, for now, I won't say anything more... some things gotta be left as a 'surprise'.

You can, of course, always contribute resources to your alliy(s) and he/they make more units if so desired (but your ally is NOT you and will not be able to 'replicate' your unit types)... and not over pop cap... at any time during the course of the session (once trade relationships have been established) or upon leaving the game by choice if have anything left to give (resigning before it's over).

Doing otherwise would make it possible to turn the game into a quasi-clone of playing AoK RM or DM with All-Techs turned on (or all techs and units enabled in the ScnEd)... that is basically turning the various civs into clones of one-another... and we don't much favour that idea.

It has been HARD WORK to make the civs different as it is, and people will doubtless develop their favorites to play because they are so... that is a core goal we are striving toward. Now 6, later 5 or 6 more... that's the plan, anyway.

Remember too, always, when you think of a feature that might be kewl... to you... that what is available for YOU to do is ALSO available for your enemy to do. So there is always a built-in GOTCHA that could work to your disadvantage as well as the advantage that you see in it.

[Belisarivs]

godliike,

I didn't say that you HAVE to use archers in a skirmish formation, just that you COULD.

Fine, fine. Just offered my idea, which would be cool for horse archers.

Roman soldiers MAY be able to build camps (it is in the design plan).  However, as long as a camp remains garrisoned it would remain in place.  If abandoned then deteriorate to become 'unuseable.  As for costs incurred, probably some but not 'prohibitably' expensive.  The ability to build the Roman-style camps whil on campaign is something that makes the Romans unique in differentiating by the civs so that has been a part of the plan all-along.  we'll see how it goes when we get further into play testing.

Cool.

Ummmkay... once you have the game in hand you can do anything that you want with it... and who knows, YOUR mod might gain broad acceptance online, or not, but we'd hope that you definitely have fun making it.   Whatever, we realise that the concept is innovative enough that some folks just aren't gonna like it as being a 'stretch' away from what they already know, and are comfortable with.

I thought, that it will not make you happy to realise that one of main ideas differentiating your game from others is planned by some modders to be removed.

But when I speak about this game I have Medieval mod in mind and in middle ages was distinction between peasants and soldiers bigger. But this definitely doesn't mean, that i dislike your idea of Citisen Soldiers as I plan to play your game and expect different experience and enjoyment.

Socrates was once included as a Hellenes hero. His bonus was that as long as he was alive, all techs researched faster or something along those lines. Although it was an interesting unit, we decided to replace him with a hero that was more "proactive" in nature.

Fine. So It will be possible to make such hero in mod.

The function will be there for some of the Super Units (example a legionairre with a pilum for ranged and a gladus for short) and therefore be an option to use in a mod.

Thanks. That's exactly what I wanted to know.

[Caesar]

I also wanted to know if there are plans for any special units like standard bearers, bodyguards, shield bearers ect. ?

I am also interested in whether or not siege weapons will be considered units, or objects that can be manned by units?

@Paul, in case you havent yet, can you please post my first article before I send you the next one?

Edited June 30, 2005 by Caesar89

[Aeros]

I also wanted to know if there are plans for any special units like standard bearers, bodyguards, shield bearers ect. ?

The way our propping system works, it would be tremendously easy to swap out a sword with a a flag standard or something similar That'll work for any unit that can cary something, which I think is virtually all units.

[Paal_101]

Sorry John, I did see your request. I was busy going to the movies yesterday I will get it up today

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

I also wanted to know if there are plans for any special units like standard bearers, bodyguards, shield bearers ect. ?

In the regular game, No. Initially, yes, such as standard bearers that would have an impact upon formations, hornblowers, civil engineers and military engineers of three kinds, helmsman for ships, all of which had 'purpose' but they didn't make the cut in our massive reassessment of the Design Doc in the Summer of '03. Why?

=> All of these units would have required 'additonal micromanagement' in some manner while playing a game session.

=> Too many unit types adding complexity to the game.

=> Too many units in that they all also take up pop slots that could be used advantageously 'elsewhere' (understanding that pop cap will be 'limited'--no 'thousands of units' im this game).

=> Too many unit types to have to develop specific AI for.

=> Too many unit types that peculiar art and animations would have to be developed for.

=> Too many units types that specific language (words, phrases--peculiar to all civs) would have to be developed for in order for their jobs to seem more realistic.

=> Too many hunits that have to 'callable' to be rendered on the fly habing their own attributes in the files.

=> The challenge and perception of what it would take to get the job done considering our skills resources with or without them, in a timely manner.

=> And how we could otherwise 'make these things happen' through the use of units retained.

The way our propping system works, it would be tremendously easy to swap out a sword with a a flag standard or something similar  That'll work for any unit that can cary something, which I think is virtually all units.

Yes, but it might look a bit funny to swap in a standard to a unit whose AI has it swinging a sword.

I am also interested in whether or not siege weapons will be considered units, or objects that can be manned by units?

Units... though it may be that they have to be manned, that is attended, by at least one hominid unit in order to function. A 'side issue' is that hominid units in attendance of siege weaponry could be expected to defend such if coming under attack... however, while doing so the weapon itself would cease firing if already firing.

Also, generally speaking, siege weapons will take longer to 'pack' and 'unpack' than they did in such as AoC. And, once packed, they MAY have to be accompanied by 1 to 3 hominid units in order to 'travel' from point-to-point. It sounds like all this could be a bit micro-intensive but I think that could be accomplsied with no more than 3 commands. We are still to work out some of the details wrt siege... so we'll see how it comes out in the end. Our boss, Jason, has a particular fondness for siege (like I have a fondness for the ships), so I expect it'll turn out to be good.

bodyguards

It is presumed that during the course of gameplay a player (or the Comp AI) may want to assign Super Units to act as a Hero's bodyguard. Just a thought there. But again, one could do so with any combat units, methinks, optional to the player what HE/SHE wants to do. And yet again, we aren't going to 'waste' pop slots on a unit designed to merely guard some other unit's 'body'... so Guard command shall suffice.

[tauhammerhead]

but there will be elite units that can be used to guard the heros right?

[Phoenix-TheRealDeal]

Super Units are 'elitist'... if not called elite.

[Titus Ultor]

You could use them as such. Place a group of high-experience solidery in with a Hero, and make a control group. Or, like Ken suggested, just use the "guard" command on the Hero, using a bunch of highly-experienced units.

[Blorx2]

is there any chace that units would be allowed in buildings?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Yes, there is a very good chance.

[Gunthahaha]

And on buildings?

[Mythos_Ruler]

There's a fair chance of that too...

[Caesar]

How easily will it be to create modpacks and will there be a specific modpack program for 0ad like Modpack Studio for AoK?

[Mythos_Ruler]

The current plan calls for as much moddability as we can pack into the game (without compromising the engine). The Atlas Editor will include modding tools and we'll "ship" the game with many of the tools we used to complete the game.