===[TASK]=== WONDER: Britons: Stonehenge and White Horse

[Mythos_Ruler]

TRAC Ticket: http://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/2053

Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Stonehenge

The Wonder for the Britons is Stonehenge. Stonehenge is a monumental structure built by pre-historic peoples from Britain from approximately 2500 BC to 2000 BC. Evidence suggests that the structure and the surrounding site served as a place of religious significance, time-keeping, and other societal functions, like burial.

This is how it currently looks in-game:

The blue part here is what we'd like it to look:

Basically a bigger footprint, with more accurate stone shape, size, and arrangement.

Attached are textures that can be used and modified if necessary.

[Ludo38]

Hey,

Funny because one of my few Blender models is Stonehenge!

I modeled it in april, following actual dimensions, and here it is, from 2 renders I have on Deviantart :

Here's the link to my DeviantArt Blender gallery where I displayed this model among others.

And I just now tried a basic simplified version (I removed the bevel and the smooth), which leads us to a count of 1030 faces :

On the stones shapes, there are improvements to be done. This model is very basic, the vertical stones need some slope to look better.

For the texture, it's my homemade texture from actual Stonehenge photos I shot when I was on site two years ago. The place is fabulous, though very touristic.

I must say I didn't touch Blender for more than 3 months. I'm gonna need some restart on shortcuts and settings.

Let me know if this model fits the need and if yes, how I should go further the best way.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Nice! Maybe you coiuld zip it up and post it for someone else to add some details and play with it.

[Ludo38]

Actually I'd like to try some detail work myself. I have time this week and will come back very soon with an improved model.

What is the faces count limit for the Wonders ?

[Enrique]

I think you can model it without worrying too much since it's mostly cubes. I suggest to make a little irregular/bumpy stones but not too much. You can also try to use the bevel modifier so they do not look so perfectly cut.

More tips: try to import a wonder from the game to get the correct scale/footprint.

Model with all the detail you want, (without very dense meshes) and if once finished it's too heavy, you can use the decimate modifier to reduce polys or remove excessive details. Feel free to ask any questions.

[Ludo38]

Alright, thank you Enrique.

[Ludo38]

I've reworked the model :

a little bonus :

As you suggested, Enrique, I've added the bevel, on every blocks, which raises the faces count to 4371 ! Isn't it too much, even for a wonder ?

Could you give me the faces count of the Persian hanging gardens as a comparison ?

4 questions :

-For the texture, it's still my personal texture, used in basic mosaic mode. It looks good to me this way, but I guess for the game we need the texture to be UV mapped, right ? If yes, I have quite a lot of separate elements here and I imagine it's going to be rather messy to manage in the UV mapping window... What do you think ? What technique do you suggest for the seams and the setting of the texture for so many separate meshes ? Oh, and the exterior circle of my Stonehenge is an array of one row, so, for now, I can't apply customizations on these stones. They are all the same. Next step, I apply the array for good and will make some random profiles to those stones.

-As requested for topological reasons of the game, I have to make the mass of the structure go deep in the ground. How much should I count under the ground ? The equivalent of 2 meters ?

-I'd love to import a wonder from the game, but I didn't found the folder where are the files in the svn on my computer. Can you guide me? Does the file include the texture image in itself or is it separated?

-For this structure, do I need to make a ground (soil, grass...) mesh/texture, or do I just make the stones ?

Sorry, lots of questions!

[Enrique]

You can find the mauryan wonder on binaries/data/mods/public/art/meshes/structural/maur_big_stupa_struct.dae It also has the same footprint as the gardens, which I made following the great pyramid footprint, so you can use it as a reference.

The gardens have a ludicrous amount of polys due to the amount of flora in it. I'll probably remove the interior and reduce triangles on the future. There are some Civic centres and big buildings that go around the 8k tris, so it's not so crazy the amount you have at the moment.

They need UV map. If you have more elements in an array, first unwrap the "origin" mesh of the array, so when you apply the array, all the duplicates will be already unwrapped. Best results will be achieved by marking seams and unwrapping manually. You can try to do an "smart UV project" but that will produce noticeable seams in several blocks corners. Just remember you can overlap UV islands without any problem when mapping the texture, and you can hide the parts that you have already mapped, so they do not disturb you when working on the ones that still needs mapping.

EDIT: The .dae files imported from the game to blender do not come with the textures, but you don't need them if you are just going to use it as a scale reference.

-For the extension under the ground, I'd say just duplicate the vertical stones and get it under the ground, where the top touches the bottom of the "out of the ground" ones, I think that could do the trick.

-You only need to worry about the model itself, the grass/soil etc it's a decal that is specified on the actor once it is exported into the game.

EDIT2: A post with some unwrapping/mapping tips: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=16654&st=20#entry253448

[Lion.Kanzen]

Excelente Ludo38 gran labor, ya vas adelante con el Blender. congratulations friend. Now you can learn to animate animals and humans. and may be can do a Tutorials for the fans modders.

[Nolanjoker]

good work Ludus . you can do the winders of the list of Wonders in ths Forum? can be nice.

[plumo]

Shouldn't we keep Stonehenge as a decorative building in the editor ? Is there no other building that could be the Britons' wonder?

( It feels 'strange' to let Britons build Stonehenge... as 2000 years have passed. I mean, we don't give the pyramids as a wonder to the Ptolomaic Egyptians...)

[WhiteTreePaladin]

I think the issue may be a lack of possible wonders for the Britons?

[plumo]

I know, it isn't easy to find a possible wonder for them.

Has this ever been discussed/considered: http://en.wikipedia....ton_White_Horse ?

[Pureon]

Ringforts, Hillforts, Brochs, or Crannogs could all be plausible wonders for the Brits.

[Mythos_Ruler]

Shouldn't we keep Stonehenge as a decorative building in the editor ? Is there no other building that could be the Britons' wonder?

( It feels 'strange' to let Britons build Stonehenge... as 2000 years have passed. I mean, we don't give the pyramids as a wonder to the Ptolomaic Egyptians...)

The Pyramids wouldn't be a bad "Wonder" for even the Ptolemaic Egyptians. There was just a well-known temple built by the Ptolemies that I thought would be a more unique Wonder for them.

And it's not like the Persians built the Hanging Gardens.

[plumo]

That's my point, I'd rather have these replaced by wonders that more or less match the time period. All other wonders (Stonehenge, pyramids, Hanging Gardens...) can be kept as scenario objects.

Pureon suggested some interesting possibilities for the Britons. As for the Persians, I'd rather like a persian structure (from Persepolis). Why not enlarge Pureon's latest Persian building and make it the wonder?

[Mythos_Ruler]

Of those suggested, the Uffington White Horse is most interesting. A large Crannog ir Hill Fort just doesn't inspire the imagination.

As for the Persians, if we were to make something based on Persepolis, we could probably just call it "Persepolis" and make it look like some stuff from here: http://www.persepoli...m/frameset.html, with cues taken specifically from Gate of All Nations. Could call the Wonder "Gate of All Nations."

[plumo]

I'm being difficult, I know, but we shouldn't lose track of historicity. Even if the wonder is less iconic, I prefer it to be from around the same period as the scope of 0 A.D dictates (around 500 BC to 1 A.D.). The piramids and other iconic wonders that predate can definitely be used, but don't let people build them anew please

[oshron]

part of the justification i came up with for the Hanging Gardens when i proposed them was that they were actually built for Nebuchadnezzer's wife, who was a Persian

[wraitii]

I like (love?) the Uffington white Horse, but that might be because AoE 1 had that (or stuffs that looked like it anyway) and I remember 5-year old me thinking they looked amazing and were the most mysterious thing ever.

Frankly, I still think so. There's not a single piece of ancient art that looks that modern in my eyes (looks like something Picasso might have drawn).

edit: can't find any screenshots of the AoE 1 stuff, but I'm sure I haven't dreamt it…

[plumo]

No, you are correct. It was in the original AOE.

[Zeta1127]

Several White Horses were the discoveries in the third level of the Ascent of Egypt learning campaign, Discoveries.

[Pureon]

Several White Horses were the discoveries in the third level of the Ascent of Egypt learning campaign, Discoveries.

That's the one

Looks like a decal

http://ageofempires.wikia.com/wiki/Discovery

[Lion.Kanzen]

Wow all my life I asked where thst horse paint was taken. XD I love Age of Empires one.

[historic_bruno]

I like (love?) the Uffington white Horse, but that might be because AoE 1 had that (or stuffs that looked like it anyway) and I remember 5-year old me thinking they looked amazing and were the most mysterious thing ever.

Frankly, I still think so. There's not a single piece of ancient art that looks that modern in my eyes (looks like something Picasso might have drawn).

edit: can't find any screenshots of the AoE 1 stuff, but I'm sure I haven't dreamt it…

I had forgotten all about those! That really takes me back lol