Technologies

[Lion.Kanzen]

Iron tool can be te h for farming level 2

[Lion.Kanzen]

And why I remember this tech to 0 AD.

I,II,III. Like our Colonies phases.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Lion.Kanzen

[Lion.Kanzen]

http://piratepad.eu/Dj9wtFr9Ev

these we working with Alpha123, Oimat, and others

don't forget that brainstorming please. i want to implement that basic and Generic Tech tree.

[Nolanjoker]

nice tech tree.i want more technologies. are too hard to programming?

[Mythos_Ruler]

More technologies.

In Civic Center, a series of technologies that improve the health of all your units. Each subsequent technology costs increasing amount of resources.

Village Phase - Celts and Iberians

• Clay Aqueducts
  
  • 50 Food
    
  • +5 Health to all units.
    

  [*]Indoor Plumbing

  • 100 Wood
    
  • +5 Health to all units.
    

Town Phase - Greeks, Persians, Successors

• Sewage System
  
  • 100 Wood, 100 Stone
    
  • +5 Health to all units.
    

  [*]Public Latrines

  • 150 Wood, 150 Stone
    
  • +5 Health to all units, +1 second train time.
    

City Phase - Romans and Carthaginians

• Raised Aqueducts
  
  • 300 Stone
    
  • +5 Health to all units, +1 second train time.
    

  [*]Public Baths

  • 250 Stone, 250 Metal
    
  • +10 Health to all units, +1 second train time.
    

[Lion.Kanzen]

I love that thoughts, that the point, give cool names to give some historical background. If the game is about Colony and City phases and not over Ages the technologies are about not only invents. Is about implementation of development of a Urbe or capital city.

[Prodigal Son]

How about an aura for some units, like champion cavalry and elephants, that slightly reduces the attack damage or attack rate of nearby enemy units, representing their intimitation? A tech version of it ("elephant bells") could make elephants even more fearsome.

A "(Promise of) Afterlife" tech at temple could simularly slightly increase the attack damage or attack rate of organic units.

A Faith tech at temple to increase Priest hit points.

A Coinage tech could give an amount of metal per ally in game each X seconds. (Would this need triggers to be implemented first?)

A Fire Arrows tech to make archers, ships, and structures more effective against structures, ships, siege and war elephants.

A "Footwear/Boots/Sandals" tech to increase infantry speed.

A Gladius tech to increase Roman Swordmen attack or slightly reduce their attack while increasing their attack rate.

A Heavy Horses (Mounts) vs Swift (Fast) Horses tech pair to grant cavalry hit points or speed accordingly.

An "Import Elephants" tech that allows factions who occasionally used War Elephants an extra champion unit without breaking balance. See here for more related ideas.

An "Imported Construction Techonology" that makes previously weaker Roman Ships/Siege/Structures on par with or slightly better than greek and carthaginian ones.

A Linothorax tech that makes hoplites slightly faster and slightly more ressistant to missiles.

A "Logistics" tech that makes Roman infantry cost half population. Or reduces their training time.

A "Loom" tech that increases female villager hit points.

An "Athletic Games" tech that increases citizen soldier (or champion to simulate famous victors?) hit points and/or movement speed.

A Marksmanship tech to increase the attack damage or attack rate of archers.

A Medicine tech to increase/add hit point regenaration of human units (all minus celts). Will we have regeneration?

A "Herbal Lore" tech that increases druid healing (celts)

An "Advanced Blacksmithing" tech to increase Celtic melee unit attack on village phase.

A "Crossbreeding" tech to increase war dog hit points and/or attack

A "Trimarcisia" tech to increase/add hit point regeneration of Gallic Champion Cavalry.

All these are a little offering from my Warcraft 3 custom ancient RTS, some are my ideas, some other are copied from games like age of empires and total war, maybe some would fit into 0 A.D.

I've got a few extra more that could work for Part II civs.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Mythos_Ruler]

Some nice ideas there. We can definitely pick and choose some of them. I'll paste the ones here that I find the most interesting or useful with some comments:

A "(Promise of) Afterlife" tech at temple could simularly slightly increase the attack damage or attack rate of organic units. (Maybe call this "Fanaticism.")

A Faith tech at temple to increase Priest hit points. (Would maybe need a more interesting name.)

A Coinage tech could give an amount of metal per ally in game each X seconds. (Would this need triggers to be implemented first?) (Might not need "triggers" per se, because it could be coded however we need to. I like the idea of a tech that benefits your allies rather than yourself. Makes alliances and teamwork more interesting.)

A Fire Arrows tech to make archers, ships, and structures more effective against structures, ships, siege and war elephants. (Would require implementation of actor switching for techs, plus implementing a tech effect for altering or adding bonuses, but otherwise this would be a cool tech. This is similar to the "Burning Pitch" tech we want to give to the Iberian javelin units.)

A "Footwear/Boots/Sandals" tech to increase infantry speed.

A Gladius tech to increase Roman Swordmen attack or slightly reduce their attack while increasing their attack rate. ("Gladius" for Roman swordsmen, "Falcata" for Iberian swordsmen.)

A Heavy Horses (Mounts) vs Swift (Fast) Horses tech pair to grant cavalry hit points or speed accordingly. (Maybe an extra Cavalry tech for Persians and Macedonians.)

An "Import Elephants" tech that allows factions who occasionally used War Elephants an extra champion unit without breaking balance. See here for more related ideas. (Could be a one-time purchase of elephants for all civs? See the Seleucid tech "Epigamia.")

A Linothorax tech that makes hoplites slightly faster and slightly more ressistant to missiles. (Already included for Alpha 15 as a blacksmith tech, though it's just a hack armor buff.)

A "Logistics" tech that makes Roman infantry cost half population. Or reduces their training time. (I like the pop effect, dunno if feasible.)

A "Loom" tech that increases female villager hit points. (Agreed. Will add soon to the House.)

A Marksmanship tech to increase the attack damage or attack rate of archers. (Seems better as an accuracy tech, which is possible to implement! Maybe for just Persians and Mauryans, or a tech for all civs that improves accuracy for all ranged units.)

A Medicine tech to increase/add hit point regenaration of human units (all minus celts). Will we have regeneration? (Yeah, I think something like this can "unlock" health regeneration for organic units.)

A "Herbal Lore" tech that increases druid healing (celts)

An "Advanced Blacksmithing" tech to increase Celtic melee unit attack on village phase. (Alternately, this Celtic tech could reduce the cost of all other Blacksmith techs, or be a "bonus" that moves the Blacksmith building from Town to Village phase for the Celtic civs only.)

A "Crossbreeding" tech to increase war dog hit points and/or attack (Agreed. Will need some kind of tech tree specifically for the war dogs. I was thinking of doing something where the player chooses to "unlock" one breed over another: Mastiffs or Wolfhounds, each with its own stats and uses.)

A "Trimarcisia" tech to increase/add hit point regeneration of Gallic Champion Cavalry. (Just looked this up, sounds pretty good for a tech)

For Part 2, we could have a bonus or tech for Parthians and Huns called "Parthian Shot" (or we can be cheeky and call it "Parting Shot") where their horse archers gain the ability to fire on enemy units even when retreating. Would probably require the implementation of a "turret" feature (the top part of the rider actor is its own model or actor prop that can rotate toward its target, like a tank "turret").

[Prodigal Son]

Some nice ideas there. We can definitely pick and choose some of them.

For Part 2, we could have a bonus or tech for Parthians and Huns called "Parthian Shot" (or we can be cheeky and call it "Parting Shot") where their horse archers gain the ability to fire on enemy units even when retreating. Would probably require the implementation of a "turret" feature (the top part of the rider actor is its own model or actor prop that can rotate toward its target, like a tank "turret").

Nice, glad some of them might prove useful:) Do you want me to post the part II specific ones as well?

Edit: Since I made the post anyway, here they are:

Citizenship: some kind of buff for roman auxiliary troops or turning them into legionares

Envenomed missiles: Scythian horse archer also deal a small damage over time (or increases their attack)

Full Scalemale: Increases Scythian (or other as well) Catafract armor

Lorica Segmentata: Increases the missile protection of legionares

Testudo formation: Unlocks it for extra missile protection while in this formation.

Steppe Hardiness: Increases the hit point regeneration of Scythian/Hun organic units

Scythian (and/or Hun) Civ Bonus: Buildings besides civ centers cost no resources. They are build from pack horses or carts (which can also double as resource drop-points), an extra "worker" unit. Those have a fixed cost and can transform into buildings. Buildings can pack back into a pack horse/cart like siege weapons, and can be redeployed/rebuilt into any other building since it's essential a just a tent.

Scythian (and/or Hun) Civ Bonus 2: each phase up grants 2(?) pack horses/carts at the researching civ center.

Urbanisation: Increases Scythian building hitpoints and grants them access to some greek (bosphoran units). It disables the ability to pack buildings back into horses.

And some ones I didn't post for part I since they are somewhat simular to existing techs but they could be used this way (each one disables the rest):

Offensive Core Infantry: Increases the attack damage or attack rate of swordsmen.

Defensive Core Infantry: Increases the hit points or armor of spearmen.

Pike Core Infantry: Increases the movement speed of pikemen.

Guerrilla Core Infantry: Increases the attack damage or attack rate and movement speed of skirmishers.

I'm also using celtic war dogs as cheap/weak age I zergling-like units trained from the farm/house for rushes, which is fun and gives a new mechanic to the celts but I guess is ahistorical.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[Iskandar]

I propose this technology:

"Hunting Dogs": Once researched, the technology improves Food hunting gather rate;

"Irrigation": after "Iron plog"improves after Farm gather rate;

"Flood control": after "Irrigation" improves Farm gather rate;

"Boiling oil": removes building minimum firing range;

"Burning Pitch": Archers and Arrow Ships damage x3 vs buildings; Archers damage x1.5 vs ships; Arrow ships +15% attack; Ballistae +20% attack;

"Naval Ram" (only Hellenes/Romans/Hellenistics civs): Bireme, Trireme and Quinquereme can be driven into the hull of an enemy ship in order to puncture the hull and sink, or at least disable, that ship;

"Bow saw": after "Iron Axe" improves Wood gather;

"Carpenters" after "Bow saw" improves Wood gather;

"Ballista Tower": the Tower can deal more damage against enemies;

"Sacred Cats" (only egyptians) : laborers farm faster by 20%;

"Shaduf" (only egyptians): Farms build faster and cost less;

"Nobility": all hit points of Cavalry units (except elephants) are increased by 15%;

"Architecture": It improves hit points of all buildings, excluding walls, by 20% and, decreases the time needed to construct a building by 33%;

"Polytheism": It increases the speed of the Priest by 40%;

"Mysticism" the hit points of the Priest doubles;

"Juggernaut (Jagannath)" (only maurya): Increase attack and range of Medium Yudhpot (eventually will be equiped with a catapult);

"Aristocracy": the speed of champion units is increased by 25%;

"Ballistics": It improves the accuracy of missile units and buildings (like archer, javeliner, war navy and tower);

"Logistics" all units trained at the Barracks take up half of a population slot instead of the usual 1;

"Tower Shield" (only romans): Triarii, Hastates and legionaries can make testudo formation. Testudo improves the piercing armor of infantry by 1 point;

"Herbal Medicine" : Units garrisoned in buildings heal four times faster;

"Philosopy" (only hellenes civs): Reduces upgrades research time at Buildings;

"Ashlar Masonry" (only hellenes civs): improves health buildings;

"Agoge discipline" (only Spartans): Reduces training time of Infantry,Ranged, and Cavalry;

"Corvus" (only Romans): Quinquereme with this military boarding device pierce the enemy ship's deck when the boarding-bridge was lowered. This allowed a firm grip between the vessels and a route for thelegionaries to cross to the other ship.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Iskandar

[Prodigal Son]

Some nice ideas there. We can definitely pick and choose some of them. I'll paste the ones here that I find the most interesting or useful with some comments:

A "(Promise of) Afterlife" tech at temple could simularly slightly increase the attack damage or attack rate of organic units. (Maybe call this "Fanaticism.") (Could do so, though I think afterlife was and is more common across all religions and their followers than fanatism - which isn't rare either but I have the impression that ancient pagans were less fanatic and more religiously tolerant than dark age and medieval monotheists)

A Faith tech at temple to increase Priest hit points. (Would maybe need a more interesting name.) (Could do so, Faith could still represent some faithful priests who suffered for their beliefs, or suffered as a result of trying to preach the beliefs)

A Coinage tech could give an amount of metal per ally in game each X seconds. (Would this need triggers to be implemented first?) (Might not need "triggers" per se, because it could be coded however we need to. I like the idea of a tech that benefits your allies rather than yourself. Makes alliances and teamwork more interesting.) (Nice, something like you research it and your allies get the bonus and vice versa?)

A Fire Arrows tech to make archers, ships, and structures more effective against structures, ships, siege and war elephants. (Would require implementation of actor switching for techs, plus implementing a tech effect for altering or adding bonuses, but otherwise this would be a cool tech. This is similar to the "Burning Pitch" tech we want to give to the Iberian javelin units.) (Would be nice to implement and include elephants as well unlike other RTS since fiery things should be one of the best counters to them)

A "Footwear/Boots/Sandals" tech to increase infantry speed.

A Gladius tech to increase Roman Swordmen attack or slightly reduce their attack while increasing their attack rate. ("Gladius" for Roman swordsmen, "Falcata" for Iberian swordsmen.) (Nice!)

A Heavy Horses (Mounts) vs Swift (Fast) Horses tech pair to grant cavalry hit points or speed accordingly. (Maybe an extra Cavalry tech for Persians and Macedonians.) (Nice, or you could check which civs had access to various horse breeds)

An "Import Elephants" tech that allows factions who occasionally used War Elephants an extra champion unit without breaking balance. See here for more related ideas. (Could be a one-time purchase of elephants for all civs? See the Seleucid tech "Epigamia.") (I think the one time purchise goes too much the AOEIII way which wasn't very successful. Plays too much with mostly random timing for something that could change balance drasticly either way. Also not all civs used Elephants. I'd love you to check my link here, I think it contains the most interesting proposals I've posted.)

A Linothorax tech that makes hoplites slightly faster and slightly more ressistant to missiles. (Already included for Alpha 15 as a blacksmith tech, though it's just a hack armor buff.) (Nice, I think i remember reading somewhere that the main advantage of the Linothorax was vs missile though, while reducing weight and remaining about as effective vs other attacks.)

A "Logistics" tech that makes Roman infantry cost half population. Or reduces their training time. (I like the pop effect, dunno if feasible.)

(It should be easy to implement, and round it up or down with odd numbers. Unless you mean it breaks balance which could be a problem. But it think there should be a way to reflect the biggest strenght of the Romans, manpower and quick replace of loses. Maybe some reduced traintime as tech or by default for hastati/trairii/veles?)

A "Loom" tech that increases female villager hit points. (Agreed. Will add soon to the House.) (Nice!)

A Marksmanship tech to increase the attack damage or attack rate of archers. (Seems better as an accuracy tech, which is possible to implement! Maybe for just Persians and Mauryans, or a tech for all civs that improves accuracy for all ranged units.) (Nice!)

A Medicine tech to increase/add hit point regenaration of human units (all minus celts). Will we have regeneration? (Yeah, I think something like this can "unlock" health regeneration for organic units.) (Nice!)

A "Herbal Lore" tech that increases druid healing (celts)

An "Advanced Blacksmithing" tech to increase Celtic melee unit attack on village phase. (Alternately, this Celtic tech could reduce the cost of all other Blacksmith techs, or be a "bonus" that moves the Blacksmith building from Town to Village phase for the Celtic civs only.) (Nice! any of those sounds great)

A "Crossbreeding" tech to increase war dog hit points and/or attack (Agreed. Will need some kind of tech tree specifically for the war dogs. I was thinking of doing something where the player chooses to "unlock" one breed over another: Mastiffs or Wolfhounds, each with its own stats and uses.) (Nice! check my dog idea a few posts up though I don't think it's THAT historical)

A "Trimarcisia" tech to increase/add hit point regeneration of Gallic Champion Cavalry. (Just looked this up, sounds pretty good for a tech) (Nice!)

Extra Italics are my comments on Mytho's comments.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Prodigal Son

[serveurix]

I have the impression that ancient pagans were less fanatic and more religiously tolerant than dark age and medieval monotheists

You seem to mix up fanatism and proselytism. An incentive to risk your life (like the promise of an afterlife) is fanatism, trying to convert everyone and eliminate other religions is proselytism.

[Prodigal Son]

You seem to mix up fanatism and proselytism. An incentive to risk your life (like the promise of an afterlife) is fanatism, trying to convert everyone and eliminate other religions is proselytism.

I partly disagree, but let's not drag this off-topic:)

[Shield Bearer]

You seem to mix up fanatism and proselytism. An incentive to risk your life (like the promise of an afterlife) is fanatism, trying to convert everyone and eliminate other religions is proselytism.

Kind of like the Roman persecutions of the Christians? Or the Seleucid persecutions of the Jews (Maccabean revolt anyone?)? Or the Aztec subjugation of the Mayans? Or the Hindu persecution of the Buddhists in the 7th century?

[serveurix]

Kind of like the Roman persecutions of the Christians? Or the Seleucid persecutions of the Jews (Maccabean revolt anyone?)? Or the Aztec subjugation of the Mayans? Or the Hindu persecution of the Buddhists in the 7th century?

By definition, yes : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proselytism

Proselytism is the act of attempting to convert people to another religion or opinion. [...] Though the word proselytism originally referred to Early Christianity (and earlier Gentiles such as God-fearers), it now refers to the attempt of any religion or religious individuals to convert people to their beliefs, or any attempt to convert people to a different point of view, religious or not.

But anyway, what I wanted to say is that what drives soldiers is not always proselytism, but you always need a bit of fanaticism to send people to war. And in antiquity that fanaticism was mostly religious, and the promise of an afterlife was one of its aspects.

Edited November 6, 2013 by serveurix

[Mythos_Ruler]

I think some folks are putting too much stock into the religious motivations of pagans of this time. Sure, some believed that glorious death in battle guaranteed a better afterlife, but I don't think this was the main basis for great deeds and warlike-spirit. Most Roman soldiers during the 2nd Punic Wars were likely fighting because they were defending their city and homes from a foreign invader (Hannibal). Persian soldiers fought at Thermopylae because they were conscripted to. As far as I know, Ahura Mazda blessed truth and justice and things like that, not reckless battlefield heroics. Carthaginians in the 3rd Punic War fought to prevent their own enslavements and slaughter. Alexander fought for everlasting fame and glory, not to gain some kind of comfortable afterlife. The men beneath him fought for riches and plunder. The Teutones fought the Romans under Marius in order to secure a new homeland (and lost badly). I think it would be cool to have some kind of tech at the temple that boosts your units, but base it on religious rites or rituals. These were very important to superstitious soldiers and helped curry the favor of the gods for their cause, or so they believed. Alexander sacrificed with his army's priests every morning. Priests from many cultures ritually slaughtered goats, chickens, and cattle prior to battle (Greek: "Sphagia") for favorable omens. Ritual feasts accompanied religious and civic festivals, with burnt offerings "given to the gods." Spoils of war were dedicated to temples in honor of the gods and to gain their favor. Religious oracles were consulted by private citizens, governments, and kings for guidance.

[Shield Bearer]

Why not call the tech Ritual Sacrifice or something like that then?

[Argantonius]

A Faith tech at temple to increase Priest hit points. (Would maybe need a more interesting name.) (Could do so, Faith could still represent some faithful priests who suffered for their beliefs, or suffered as a result of trying to preach the beliefs)

This seems more fitting for Abrahamaic religions than ancient polytheists (and even then I'd favor a name like Martyrdom over just simple Faith). How about Organized Religion, Priestly Class, Theocracy or even Religious Donations (because your subjects are feeding your priests better?).

A "(Promise of) Afterlife" tech at temple could simularly slightly increase the attack damage or attack rate of organic units. (Maybe call this "Fanaticism.") (Could do so, though I think afterlife was and is more common across all religions and their followers than fanatism - which isn't rare either but I have the impression that ancient pagans were less fanatic and more religiously tolerant than dark age and medieval monotheists)

Either name works in its own way I suppose. "Zealotry" is another option. "Animal/Ritual Sacrifice" can work too as already pointed.

Barely related to that (because it made me think of Numantia and Massada) I propose:

"Siege Rations" - Increases your (fighting) male population HPs and decreases the HPs of other units like women, priests and traders (domestic animals too?). Meant to be hit only when you are fighting for your base, obviously.

By the way, I had not the chance to do a naval battle yet. Is capturing ships (by enemy ships) implemented or planned?

[Prodigal Son]

How about a Boiling Oil tech? It could work for towers and forts like in Age of Mythology (attacking enemies within melee/closer than minimum range) and it could also give an attack to gates, vs enemy units meleeing the gate or passing through if it's open.

[Stan`]

That wouldn't be oil though. Too expensive to be thrown on enemies.

[oshron]

That wouldn't be oil though. Too expensive to be thrown on enemies.

same difference. boiling water.

[sanderd17]

Oil was very common in some regions (there was quite some surface oil in the middle east), and couldn't be used for a lot of purposes (no fuel, no plastics ...), so it was more of a waste product than anything else.

[Spahbod]

Oil was very common in some regions (there was quite some surface oil in the middle east), and couldn't be used for a lot of purposes (no fuel, no plastics ...), so it was more of a waste product than anything else.

It was actually a menace, because it contaminated water of the wells in a dry region. Although I have only seen reports of its use during the campaign of Bahram Chubin, the Sassanid General, against Hephtalites and even that's not much certain.

[Prodigal Son]

I had in mind plant oil (like olive oil, there's plenty of it around the Mediterranean), however never did any research on what they really used this way. Water wouldn't be that effective though compared to any kind of oil.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some thecnologies pairs I'm not agree with some because some have non sense spear teach vs skirmish ( infantry) mostly of time I prefer spear over skirmisher and all cavalry armor vs only skirmish.

I never use the other one. But I asked if I'm the only one.