Unit And Building Names

[Mythos_Ruler]

So, it might be possible to just use Celtic for the Iberian words.

[historic_bruno]

http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=14918

[POW_Attack]

Hello guys! First post here! I maybe writing in a wrong post but all the buildings should have an English name in parenthesis(you know these () things) so that we (newbies) are not mistaking what each building does. For example you should put barracks when selecting a building as well as we see them in the build menu. Moreover when will you make the city gate work? We need it! Last, please make the artificial intelligence better!

[feneur]

Hello guys! First post here! I maybe writing in a wrong post but all the buildings should have an English name in parenthesis(you know these () things) so that we (newbies) are not mistaking what each building does. For example you should put barracks when selecting a building as well as we see them in the build menu. Moreover when will you make the city gate work? We need it! Last, please make the artificial intelligence better!

Having the name in parenthesis would take up too much space The name does show up in a tooltip when you hover over the building icon/name in the GUI though

[Mythos_Ruler]

Having the name in parenthesis would take up too much space The name does show up in a tooltip when you hover over the building icon/name in the GUI though

We also plan to, I believe, put the generic name, e.g. Thracian Peltast, in the UI, while putting the specific name (ethnic name) in the tooltip, e.g. Peltastes Thrakikos. We just haven't gotten around to it yet.

[historic_bruno]

We also plan to, I believe, put the generic name, e.g. Thracian Peltast, in the UI, while putting the specific name (ethnic name) in the tooltip, e.g. Peltastes Thrakikos. We just haven't gotten around to it yet.

If it takes up too much UI space why not change the UI? Like make the specific name small and the generic name big. But I agree the generic name should be the most obvious for those of us who don't study ancient languages

[Mythos_Ruler]

If it takes up too much UI space why not change the UI? Like make the specific name small and the generic name big. But I agree the generic name should be the most obvious for those of us who don't study ancient languages

Because there is a bunch of other things to show in the UI. Best to just put one in the tooltip and one in the UI.

[oshron]

i was under the impression that a new feature was going to be eventually added so that, if you wanted to, you could turn off the ethnic names so that the units, etc, would instead have generic names during gameplay like in other RTS games

[Mythos_Ruler]

i was under the impression that a new feature was going to be eventually added so that, if you wanted to, you could turn off the ethnic names so that the units, etc, would instead have generic names during gameplay like in other RTS games

Not sure where you got that impression, but it's not a bad idea to include such an option.

[Erutuon]

Went through the Macedonian military units, and here're some suggestions.

First, plural -oi -> singular -os:

• Peltastes Agrianikoi -> ... Agrianikos
• Sphendonêtês Rhodikoi -> Sphendonetes Rhodikos
• Toxotes Kretikoi -> ... Kretikos
• Xystophoros Thrakikoi -> ... Thrakikos (or Thrakios, Thrax)
• Prodromos Thessalikoi -> Prodromos Thessalikos

Incorrect endings: naus is feminine so adjective needs feminine ending -e;
elephant is elephas in Greek (from the stem elephant- with the nominative singular ending -s, then sound change -ants -> -âs);
English ending -ist is Greek -istes.

• Emporiko Naus -> Naus Emporike
• Elephantos Kataphraktes -> Elephas Kataphraktos
• Hypaspist -> Hypaspistes

Spelling: ae is Latin spelling for Ancient Greek ai diphthong; Aigyptios is the correct form.

• Makhimos Aegyptikos -> ... Aigyptios

consistency in transliteration of Greek: use k, kh rather than c, ch

• Demetrios Poliorcetes -> ... Poliorketes
• Antiochos IV Epiphanes -> Antiokhos IV Epiphanes

Greek form ends in -aios, not -y.

• Ptolemy I Soter -> Ptolemaios I Soter
• Ptolemy IV Philopater -> Ptolemaios IV Philopater

Biremes is from Latin roots (bi + remus); dieres is the Greek equivalent.

• Biremes -> Dieres

Elephantos Makhe means "elephant's war". Need an adjective meaning "war-related" instead.

• Elephantos Makhe -> Elephas Makhimos?, Polemikos?

A general question: Are you planning to add circumflexes consistently? There are lots of words that need them (for instance, every noun in -es). I'd advise you just not to use them at all, since it'd be much simpler.

Edited August 26, 2011 by Erutuon

[Mythos_Ruler]

About the plural stuff, I already knew that. Simple mistake. But all of the other corrections you list there are very helpful!!! Thanks, m8!

A general question: Are you planning to add circumflexes consistently? There are lots of words that need them (for instance, every noun in -es). I'd advise you just not to use them at all, since it'd be much simpler.

Depends on what kind of font support we have. I'd rather go ahead and use all of the accents and circumflexes necessary in the "ethnic" <SpecificName> names, then default to "easier" English/Latinized forms for the <GenericName>.

EDIT: Speaking of "Thrax," a character in my screenplay, a Thracian slave, is named Thrax.

EDIT2: I added many of your suggested changes: http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=13560

[Ykkrosh]

Depends on what kind of font support we have.

The font we currently use supports all kinds of weird accents on Latin characters, so that should be okay. (A font that doesn't support them wouldn't be usable for the user's-native-language text either.)

[Mythos_Ruler]

The font we currently use supports all kinds of weird accents on Latin characters, so that should be okay. (A font that doesn't support them wouldn't be usable for the user's-native-language text either.)

Answers that question! thanks Phil!

[Brightgalrs]

What about Basque? Even though according to Wikipedia it is only remotely related to the Ancient Iberian Language (if at all), it is a non-Indoeuropean language that was spoken on the Iberian peninsula. (and it still is spoken in some parts of Northern Spain and Southern France) It dates back to classical times (again according to Wikipedia, there are Roman-time inscriptions with Basque words) and it remains spoken today, so it should not be too difficult getting names for units and buildings.

I think it would be very easy to "translate" Basque words into fake-Iberian words. We know a lot of about the Iberian language, so it should be possible to retro-transliterate them if we had the Basque words and how they were pronounced.

Iberian alphabet:

a,e,i,o,u,g,k,b,d,t,s,ś,r,ŕ,l,m,n,ḿ

r=[ɾ]

ŕ=[r] or [ɽ]

s=[ts] or [tʃ]

ś=

l=[l] (seems that ŕ works in its place)

n=[n]

m=[n] (nasalizes the preceding vowel)

ḿ=[na]

Everything else seems to be the English equivalent.

Notes:

There is no 'p'('p' -> 'b')

There is no 'j' or 'w' either. (not sure about 'j') ('w' -> 'b' maybe)

If two vowels are next to each other the second one needs to be either a 'i' or 'u'

[Brightgalrs]

English

Basque

"Iberian"

port

kaiatik

kaitik

fortress

gotorleku

gotoŕleku

wall

horma

orma

gate

atea

ate

market

merkatu

merkatu

barracks

kuartela

kauŕtela

house

etxe

ete

stable

egonkorra

egonkoŕa

field

eremua

erema

mill

errota

eŕota

farmstead

baserria

baseŕia

tower

dorrea

doŕe

temple

tenplu

tenblu

[JuliusColtranePille]

English

Basque

"Iberian"

port

kaiatik

kaitik

fortress

gotorleku

gotoŕleku

wall

horma

orma

gate

atea

ate

market

merkatu

merkatu

barracks

kuartela

kauŕtela

house

etxe

ete

stable

egonkorra

egonkoŕa

field

eremua

erema

mill

errota

eŕota

farmstead

baserria

baseŕia

tower

dorrea

doŕe

temple

tenplu

tenblu

yeah sounds cool. i have always been disappointed about the latinic-"pseudo-iberian"-ethnic-names

[Pedro Falcão]

i read at wikipedia that some iberian words started with "p" where most celtic words started with a vowel. For instance, the celtic word "orcom" (that means pig), in iberian was written (and spoken) "porcom" (coincidence or not, in portuguese, the word for pig is "porco", and "puerco" for spanish).

[Mythos_Ruler]

i read at wikipedia that some iberian words started with "p" where most celtic words started with a vowel. For instance, the celtic word "orcom" (that means pig), in iberian was written (and spoken) "porcom" (coincidence or not, in portuguese, the word for pig is "porco", and "puerco" for spanish).

Pork in English.

[zaphzaph]

A other suggestion.

In fact, in the Carthaginian army, the elite cavalry called "Sacred Band of Astarté"

and the pikemen of elite called "Sacred band of Baal"

It is a possibility

[Erutuon]

About the plural stuff, I already knew that. Simple mistake. But all of the other corrections you list there are very helpful!!! Thanks, m8!

Depends on what kind of font support we have. I'd rather go ahead and use all of the accents and circumflexes necessary in the "ethnic" <SpecificName> names, then default to "easier" English/Latinized forms for the <GenericName>.

EDIT: Speaking of "Thrax," a character in my screenplay, a Thracian slave, is named Thrax.

EDIT2: I added many of your suggested changes: http://www.wildfireg...showtopic=13560

Well, if you'd like to fully represent the Ancient Greek spelling and pronunciation, the transcription system needs to be changed a bit: macron for long vowels, and acute, grave, and circumflex for the three types of pitch accent. Combinations of acute and macron, grave and macron, and circumflex and macron are required where accent falls on a long vowel. The diaeresis might be needed, but it only occurs rarely. Here are some comparisons of the current transcription with the new system:

Sphendonêtês Rhodikos -> Sphendonḗtēs Rhodikós (Σφενδονήτης Ῥοδικός) or ... Rhódios (... Ῥόδιος)<li>Ploion Halieutikon -> Ploîon Halieutikón (Πλοῖον Ἁλιευτικόν)

Switching to this system would require changing every word in every unit name, since every word has an accent that needs to be added. Keeping the current system would only require adding a few circumflexes for long vowels.

So what do you think? Do you want to stick with the simpler transcription system (circumflexes for long vowels) or go with the fuller system?

Depending on which system you choose, I can help by listing the unit names that need to be changed. It might take a while before I get back to it, though

[Mythos_Ruler]

Well, if you'd like to fully represent the Ancient Greek spelling and pronunciation, the transcription system needs to be changed a bit: macron for long vowels, and acute, grave, and circumflex for the three types of pitch accent. Combinations of acute and macron, grave and macron, and circumflex and macron are required where accent falls on a long vowel. The diaeresis might be needed, but it only occurs rarely. Here are some comparisons of the current transcription with the new system:

Sphendonêtês Rhodikos -> Sphendonḗtēs Rhodikós (Σφενδονήτης Ῥοδικός) or ... Rhódios (... Ῥόδιος)<li>Ploion Halieutikon -> Ploîon Halieutikón (Πλοῖον Ἁλιευτικόν)

Switching to this system would require changing every word in every unit name, since every word has an accent that needs to be added. Keeping the current system would only require adding a few circumflexes for long vowels.

So what do you think? Do you want to stick with the simpler transcription system (circumflexes for long vowels) or go with the fuller system?

Depending on which system you choose, I can help by listing the unit names that need to be changed. It might take a while before I get back to it, though

Maybe list both ways if you can so we can make a decision on readability?

[Erutuon]

All right, here are more examples: some unit names in English first, then the full transcription system, and finally the simpler system.

Foot Companion

Pezétairos

Pezetairos

Agrianian Peltast

Peltástēs Agrianikós

Peltastês Agrianikos

Rhodian Slinger

Sphendonḗtēs Rhódios

Sphendonêtês Rhodios

Cretan Archer

Toxótēs Krētikós

Toxotês Krêtikos

Thracian Heavy Cavalry

Xystophóros Thrākikós or Thrāx (Thrāikikós or Thrāix, if we transcribe iota subscript)

Xystophoros Thrâx

Thessalian Scout

Pródromos Thessalikós

Prodromos Thessalikos

Macedonian Woman

Gýnē

Gynê

Priest

Hiereús

Hiereus

Merchant

Émporos

Emporos

Fishing Boat

Ploîon Halieutikón

Ploion Halieutikon

Trade Ship

Naûs Emporikḗ

Naus Emporikê

Bireme

Diḗrēs

Diêrês

Trireme

Triḗrēs

Triêrês

Siege Tower

Helépolis

Helepolis

Stone Thrower

Petróbolos

Petrobolos

Shield Bearer

Hypaspítēs

Hypaspitês

Companion Cavalry

Hetaîros

Hetairos

Greek Cataphract

Katáphraktos (or Híppos Katáphraktos)

Kataphraktos (Or Hippos Kataphraktos)

Armoured War Elephant

Eléphās Katáphraktos

Elephâs Kataphraktos

Egyptian Levy Pikeman

Mákhimos Aigýptios

Makhimos Aigyptios

War Elephant

Eléphās Polemikós

Elephâs Polemikos

Juggernaut

Tessarakontḗrēs

Tessarakontêrês

Philip II

Phílippos II (or ... B' in Greek numerals), Phílippos B' ho Makedṓn

Philippos II

Alexander the Great

Mégās Aléxandros

Megâs Alexandros

Demetrius the Besieger

Dēmḗtrios Poliorkḗtēs

Dêmêtrios Poliorkêtês

Seleucus the Victor

Séleukos I Nīkā́tōr (or A' in Greek numerals)

Seleukos I Nîkâtôr

Antiochus the Great

Antíokhos III Mégās (or G' in Greek numerals)

Antiokhos Megâs

Antiochus the Magnificent

Antíokhos IV Epiphanḗs (or D' in Greek numerals)

Antiokhos IV Epiphanês

Ptolemy the Savior

Ptolemaîos I Sōtḗr (or A' in Greek numerals)

Ptolemaios I Sôtêr

Ptolemy IV Philopator

Ptolemaîos IV Philopátōr (or Z' in Greek numerals)

Ptolemaios IV Philopatôr

Cleopatra VII

Kleopátrā VII (or Z' in Greek numerals), Kleopátrā Philopátōr

Kleopatrâ Philopatôr

I include the Greek numerals with the names of rulers since using Roman numerals in Greek is somewhat odd. On Wikipedia, though, numbers are not included in the Greek translations of rulers' names (the only exception being with all the Philips of Macedon); only the epithets are. Perhaps most numbers were only assigned in modern times, and should not be included in the Greek at all.

Well anyway, what do you think about readability of the full transcription?

Edited November 27, 2011 by Erutuon

[Mythos_Ruler]

The readability is there. Not much difference. We can go with the full transcriptions. Can you go through the Hellenes profile here and see what you can list?

http://trac.wildfire...Civ%3A_Hellenes

If you do, then I will change all of the <SpecificNames> to match your list.

[tribalbeat]

I know it's minor, but can you change "Gallic Dun" to "Fürstensitz?"

[Erutuon]

The readability is there. Not much difference. We can go with the full transcriptions. Can you go through the Hellenes profile here and see what you can list?

http://trac.wildfire...Civ%3A_Hellenes

If you do, then I will change all of the <SpecificNames> to match your list.

All right, here's the list. I've changed some things in addition to adding diacritics. Corrected nationality adjectives, replaced Modern Greek words with Ancient Greek, used Athenian rather than Dorian/Aeolic forms (naos -> neos). These larger changes are marked with asterisks. I can't figure out what the word for corral should be; stavlos is definitely not Ancient Greek, though.

I'll probably need to do a few more changes, but I need to get to bed...

Greek Hoplite (translation: Heavy Infantryman?)

Hoplī́tēs Hellēnikós

Thracian Peltast (translation: Light Infantryman?)

Peltastḗs Thrâx*

Cretan Archer

Toxótēs Krētikós

Greek Cavalry

Hippeús

Thessalian Scout

Pródromos

Greek Woman

Gýnē

Priest

Hiereús

Merchant

Émporos

Fishing Boat

Ploîon Halieutikón

Trading Ship

Ploîon Phortēgikón*

Pentekonter

Pentēkónteros

Trireme

Triḗrēs

Siege Tower

Helépolis

Stone Thrower

Lithóbolos

Bolt Shooter

Oxybelḗs

Spartan Hoplite

Spartiā́tēs

Athenian Light Hoplite

Ékdromos Athēnaïkós

Macedonian Pikeman

Pezétairos

Companion Cavalry

Hetaîros

Themistocles

Themistoklês

Leonidas

Leōnídēs

Xenophon

Xenophôn

Philip II

Phílippos B' ho Makedṓn

Alexander the Great

Mégās Aléxandros

Demetrius the Besieger

Dēmḗtrios Poliorkḗtēs

Household

Oîkos

Granary

Sītobólion

Field

Ágros* (word for Granary was repeated here by mistake)

Corral

Aulḗ, Épaulos, Ktēnotropheîon* (fairly literal translations: yard, extra-yard, herd-feeding-place)

Warehouse

Apothḗkē*

Outpost

Pyrgíon

Civic Centre

Agorā́

Dock

Limḗn

Temple

Neṓs

Barracks

Stratēgeîon

Marketplace

Empórion

City Wall

Teîkhos

Tower

Pýrgos

Gate

Pýlai* (plural, since singular refers to one door in gate rather than whole gate)

Fortress

Teíkhisma

Theater

Théātron

Gymnasium

Gymnásion

Council Chamber

Prytaneîon