Two General Improvements to Gameplay

[Euclid]

After playing for about 200 hours, and assuming one is not using cheats (which I don't enjoy because they make the game boring - in my opinion), I feel there are two overall improvements that could be easily made to the game play (no major mods required): (1) the difficulty rating is skewed toward being too difficult (based primarily on how fast AI civs gather resources relative to the human).  I have gotten pretty good at playing and I really enjoy the challenge but I don't think a human being can beat the AI players at "medium difficulty."  In order to beat AI at that level, it seems like one must also be a computer and play the game "perfectly."  Shouldn't that challenge be relegated to the most difficult level of game-play? (2) Any civilization with war elephants has a lopsided advantage over any civilization that doesn't.  If I don't have war elephants and the other side does then I figure it's not worth playing against them since my chances are slim to none over beating them.

Overall however, this is by far the best builder/empire battle game I have ever played.  Setting the game on random for everything creates so many interesting possibilities that I never get tired of playing it (which is a first for me at the age of 60!).  If the two previous concerns were addressed, that would make this game the best ever in its genera.

[Gurken Khan]

Hi @Euclid, welcome to the forums.

  On 14/05/2024 at 4:16 AM, Euclid said:

I don't think a human being can beat the AI players at "medium difficulty."

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Nah, that's easy (or medium difficult). There's vids on youtube where they try to beat 1v5 very hard AIs. I'm a casual player and usually go with one ally against four medium enemies (putting them in two teams spiked the difficulty, haven't tried with one enemy team of four). With random behaviors that can play out very differently, from everyone waiting at their base for you to all four attacking you simultaneously... The AI also doesn't play optimally, they sometimes have idle units and often go very long, inefficient ways with their units; so one doesn't have to play perfectly, either.

I guess you're not at your peak yet. Have you noticed the different gathering rates of the units? Knowing that helps your eco. There's plenty of guides for build order, eco... Or just ask here.

Maybe this thread gives you ideas of how to counter eles:

 

[Dunedan]

  On 14/05/2024 at 4:16 AM, Euclid said:

I have gotten pretty good at playing and I really enjoy the challenge but I don't think a human being can beat the AI players at "medium difficulty."

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That just means you're not as good as you think.

I suggest you play a few games against other human players using the multiplayer lobby and you'll quickly notice that AI at any level is still quite easy to defeat.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

You might just think you have reached peak performance. I think seeing someone else's gameplay can help a lot with this, so I'd also recommend you look at @ValihrAnt's youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@ValihrAnt/videos

[ShadowOfHassen]

We need a better tutorial, to teach all these tricks. People really shouldn't need to go elsewhere to figure out the game's strategies.

[Gurken Khan]

  On 14/05/2024 at 2:32 PM, ShadowOfHassen said:

We need a better tutorial, to teach all these tricks.

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I think a tutorial should introduce the basics and some general hints, teaching everything up to and including high-level strategies doesn't seem feasible.

[Grautvornix]

There are a few posts in this forum  discussing strategic options starting from very basic - such as 

and (but there was also some tips on how to grow pop quickly., still have to find it

 

[Grautvornix]

@ShadowOfHassen@Vantha Do you think we could we use the planned in-game encyclopaedia framework to also provide this kind of help on strategy and options?. Just an idea...

[ShadowOfHassen]

  On 14/05/2024 at 3:06 PM, Gurken Khan said:

I think a tutorial should introduce the basics and some general hints, teaching everything up to and including high-level strategies doesn't seem feasible.

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Well, a tutorial series and then a few campaigns that are written with an effect to shepherd the players into playing right..

 

  On 14/05/2024 at 3:34 PM, Grautvornix said:

@ShadowOfHassen@Vantha Do you think we could we use the planned in-game encyclopaedia framework to also provide this kind of help on strategy and options?. Just an idea...

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I think so, @Vanthawould have to confirm, but basically we could write several articles and put them in a "strategy guide of sorts"

[Player of 0AD]

  On 14/05/2024 at 4:16 AM, Euclid said:

After playing for about 200 hours, and assuming one is not using cheats (which I don't enjoy because they make the game boring - in my opinion), I feel there are two overall improvements that could be easily made to the game play (no major mods required): (1) the difficulty rating is skewed toward being too difficult (based primarily on how fast AI civs gather resources relative to the human).  I have gotten pretty good at playing and I really enjoy the challenge but I don't think a human being can beat the AI players at "medium difficulty."  In order to beat AI at that level, it seems like one must also be a computer and play the game "perfectly."  Shouldn't that challenge be relegated to the most difficult level of game-play? (2) Any civilization with war elephants has a lopsided advantage over any civilization that doesn't.  If I don't have war elephants and the other side does then I figure it's not worth playing against them since my chances are slim to none over beating them.

Overall however, this is by far the best builder/empire battle game I have ever played.  Setting the game on random for everything creates so many interesting possibilities that I never get tired of playing it (which is a first for me at the age of 60!).  If the two previous concerns were addressed, that would make this game the best ever in its genera.

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I often play matches where I team up with a medium AI against a team of 6 very hard AIs. We win in like 90%-95% of cases. What kind of being am I supposed to be? ;)

[Grautvornix]

A superb master strategist of course!

Here is some more on strategies:

 

[Gurken Khan]

  On 14/05/2024 at 3:36 PM, ShadowOfHassen said:

a few campaigns

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Looking forward to them!

[Grautvornix]

And in the past, there was also quite some discussion on a tutorial campaign e.g. under this threat:

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

  On 14/05/2024 at 2:32 PM, ShadowOfHassen said:

We need a better tutorial, to teach all these tricks. People really shouldn't need to go elsewhere to figure out the game's strategies.

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I think a tutorial covering the basics is all that is needed. Sharing tips and tricks and helping each other learn is part of building a community

[ShadowOfHassen]

  On 14/05/2024 at 3:48 PM, Grautvornix said:

And in the past, there was also quite some discussion on a tutorial campaign e.g. under this threat:

 

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Funnily enough some of the ideas there are similar to the ones I had myself. I’d be willing to help make a tutorial campaign but I’d need an experienced map maker to help + some big time 0 AD players to make sure I don’t forget anything 

[Vantha]

I'm all in for helping with a new tutorial. I agree that special strategies and tricks are not something a tutorial should teach - discovering stuff yourself or learning it from others is part of the fun, especially in a strategy game. We should view a tutorial as an "introduction to essential gameplay mechanics" - of which there are more than enough in 0ad and plenty basic ones that are not covered by the current tutorial.

 

 

  On 14/05/2024 at 3:34 PM, Grautvornix said:

@ShadowOfHassen@Vantha Do you think we could we use the planned in-game encyclopaedia framework to also provide this kind of help on strategy and options?. Just an idea...

Expand  

 

  On 14/05/2024 at 3:36 PM, ShadowOfHassen said:

I think so, @Vanthawould have to confirm, but basically we could write several articles and put them in a "strategy guide of sorts"

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Sure, why not. The UI page currently has an empty "gameplay" section anyway...