TG Tournament

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Ok, I still haven't seen or heard from my teammates on Legion X. If some other team is needing a player of around 1600-1700 then I'd be happy to fill in.

[70H4NN2S]

10 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Ok, I still haven't seen or heard from my teammates on Legion X. If some other team is needing a player of around 1600-1700 then I'd be happy to fill in.

@BreakfastBurrito_007 i contacted your team. BERBEROG and TRSA2 will be removed from the tournament. The team will be replaced by a new team that was created. And we will add a fifth player to each team. But these are dramatic changes, so i would like confirmation from the other players asap.

[Player of 0AD]

Isn't it a bit harsh to remove them for not appearing 1 time? Or what did they do?

And what's the 5th player for? I thought we have now a solution for cases where the team is not complete. And imagine 5 players of a team want to play, then one cant, thats not good neither.

[70H4NN2S]

There was 0 team work in Legion X as far as i know, and the leader just disappeared with his friend. I contacted him a few times. I will still wait, if he appears will i add that team again. But we got a new team formed that could replace the old team perfectly. 
And 5 players will make the probability higher that we get 4 players or at least 3 in some cases for a TG. Because there were a few players who told me already they will not have so much time, so we need definitely some replacement. In my opinion. But 0 changes happened until now. I am still waiting.

[70H4NN2S]

Hi @everyone,
we will now start the second round a little bit later than usual, because the teams were updated and a new team has joined. Try to finish the round until monday/tuesday at most. I would recommend you to play Saturday or Sunday between 4pm UTC until 9pm UTC, because that's the time most players play. But the team leaders can change the date if needed.

Here are the matches for the second round:

1. @noob vs @The_E-Team
2. @bluenode vs @Leonidas
3. @Legends vs @random
4. @A.S.Pruzzo vs @Legion_X
5. @A.S.Pruzzo vs @Stars

Overdue from the first round:

1. @random vs @bluenode (try to catch up)

@A.S.Pruzzo will play 2 rounds because they joined recently.

[70H4NN2S]

hi @everyone , i forgot to mention the settings for this week.

The @team_leader voted for the followind settings: Islands; 200pop; allied view: on; low res;

Ask your team leader to vote for a specific setting for the next round if you want to play it.

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

@70H4NN2S do you have a list of allowed mods? I think it would be good to do for competitive play so the abilities of all the players are fair.

[alre]

Islands?!? is jc still with us? 

[70H4NN2S]

@alre each team leader votes for the next round settings in the discord server. You are now also a leader, so you can do it and i recommend you to do it. So we get better maps xd and settings in general. I don't vote. jc is not playing in the tournament.
 

@real_tabasco_sauce i was thinking of implementing this too, but it will be very hard to verify it, because players can hide mods, etc. The only way that comes to my mind is that each player will have to stream his game and a few judges can check the game play with the interface, etc. But nobody will want to do it. Maybe you know a different solution, i am still new so i don't know everything.

[70H4NN2S]

hi @everyone,
the team leaders voted again and the rules for the second round are updated:

We will play Mainland with fixed positions. You need the mod Mainland-Twilight. You can download it from the mod-store in 0ad.

It is going to be the classic 11112222 starting position.

This is going to be the picking order:

• Team 1: assigns 1 player and civ
• Team 2: assigns 2 players and civs
• Team 1: assigns 2 players and civs
• Team 2: assigns 2 players and civs
• Team 1: assings 1 player and civ

The teams can decide between them who will be team 1 and who will be team 2. Or you can check who the white player on the website is: SwissSystem.org

The rest of the settings will be usual stuff: adequate size for number of players, low starting resources, allied view: on, 200 pop 

[alre]

for the teams of our next matches: note that we proposed a couple of times on the "scheduling" chat of the Discord channel.

[seeh]

random-bluenode
want play now. i wrote all pms and pls help also inform all. please contact

3 of 4 players have said have time now

Edited September 2, 2023 by seeh

[alre]

As long as the competition score is kept by the rating system in discord, I think the best way to leverage that system would be to have the teams free to play any game they want to play against each other, and update the rating accordingly.

Of course some rules should have to be set so that this can still be run manually, limiting the number of official games that can be played every week. What do you think @70H4NN2S?

[seeh]

team bluenode searchs a new (so called) 'team-leader'.

@70H4NN2S
posted in other chats:

Quote

@70H4NN2S#5579  take me out as team leader. I've just decided that I'm not the right person for this tournament as a leadner/manager/team-organizer. But I continue to support the tournament and will continue to make myself available as a player.

 

Edited September 2, 2023 by seeh

[70H4NN2S]

6 hours ago, alre said:

As long as the competition score is kept by the rating system in discord, I think the best way to leverage that system would be to have the teams free to play any game they want to play against each other, and update the rating accordingly.

Of course some rules should have to be set so that this can still be run manually, limiting the number of official games that can be played every week. What do you think @70H4NN2S?

i was thinking of it. We could make a 2d table where each team has to play each other once, but then will a few teams never play, probably. Because they don't get together if there is no pressure. But we might do it.

[alre]

I would like to make a claim of irregularities by player Piplox (BOO! <3) on our last (and only) game of A.S.Pruzzo vs Stars.

I am not commenting the behaviour of the player in the game and lobby chat, for that I can see his same team choose it to change him with another player, but I am attaching here the replay, from which you can all see he was using ProGUI - or some other mod for automating training.

He never used auto-queue and he kept training units in small batches from all his buildings. Oftentimes he created a new batch (usually of 1, but sometimes more), when the last batch was just about to complete training, as usual with ProGUI. Sometimes the training commands are so quick that you can't even see them when looking at the replay with "follow player" activated: the training building is never even shown as selected, at least not at normal speed.

For a definitive proof, look no further than at minute 10:06, when Piplox is giving a command to some three units (2 spearmen and one archer). The commands given are: drop resources > create building > gather metal (with shift pressed). While he is giving these commands, the CC starts training a new horseman, this before the last command is given to the three units. A video of the replay at that moment is attached, follow player is activated for the video, and speed is 0.1x.

It's impossible that Piplox manually gave the train command to the CC and then immediately reselected the same three units in the middle of all the other ones, to give them the new queued command. Those three units were not in a selection group: they are never given another command together in the rest of the game.

commands.txtmetadata.json

[Atrik]

I don't understand if this is a joke from @alre or not.

10 hours ago, alre said:

It's impossible that Piplox manually gave the train command to the CC and then immediately reselected the same three units in the middle of all the other ones, to give them the new queued command. Those three units were not in a selection group: they are never given another command together in the rest of the game.

So Piplox is just ordering a group of 3 units, while it's CC queue units with progui's autoqueue?
If he used the normal autoqueue, he would also have a chance for a new batch to start producing between two orders. He don't need control groups, or anything special to do order those units. If you want to prove a player is cheating and you looked out so closely just to find this, I guess he's probably not doing anything too weird lol

[alre]

1 hour ago, Atrik said:

I don't understand if this is a joke from @alre or not.

So Piplox is just ordering a group of 3 units, while it's CC queue units with progui's autoqueue?
If he used the normal autoqueue, he would also have a chance for a new batch to start producing between two orders. He don't need control groups, or anything special to do order those units. If you want to prove a player is cheating and you looked out so closely just to find this, I guess he's probably not doing anything too weird lol

lol autoqueue shows in replays, it's deactivated. take a look at the replay and tell me if you honestly think he's using progui or not.

Edited September 4, 2023 by alre

[Atrik]

4 minutes ago, alre said:

take a look and tell me if you think he's not using progui

He probably is. I used it too even in tournament matches, I didn't know it was forbidden.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I am not in this tournament, but I suggested to @70H4NN2S to come up with a list of allowed mods for the tournament. proGUI should not be in this list as it gives the user abilities that are not possible in normal 0ad, aka cheats.

I am fine with people using it in casual games, but i'm noticing the 'If you can't beat em, join em' trend, and its troubling. In addition to the unfair part, it is doing so much eco for the player which normally requires lots of attention because its an important part of the game. So it goes against a key principle of RTS games: multitasking.

Edited September 4, 2023 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Atrik]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

but i'm noticing the 'If you can't beat em, join em' trend, and its troubling.

Never felt the urge to reveal enemy stats, map, or chat just because I had evidences some players do. They are also less detectable by far then using progui trainer, while providing a much greater advantage then having a enhanced queuing system.

There is a lot to criticize about progui but one thing it does is to be reasonably modular, with a bunch of options I added from actual player suggestions. So you have probably 50% of the players using it, that don't even have the trainer overlay. Now if the goal is to divide people in distinct group "us vs them" as you said, I don't think this is a good thing to do.

[70H4NN2S]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I am not in this tournament, but I suggested to @70H4NN2S to come up with a list of allowed mods for the tournament. proGUI should not be in this list as it gives the user abilities that are not possible in normal 0ad, aka cheats.

I am fine with people using it in casual games, but i'm noticing the 'If you can't beat em, join em' trend, and its troubling. In addition to the unfair part, it is doing so much eco for the player which normally requires lots of attention because its an important part of the game. So it goes against a key principle of RTS games: multitasking.

I started the tournament without any rules related to mods, how do you want to do it? Like, you will have to check each game from all the players to see if somebody activated proGui and co in some moment. They can activate it just in the later stage. That's to much work for me to do. I have already enough by trying to get the teams playing and to get as many players as possible, so that the game can consist at least of a 3vs3.
I would really need some help, because i can't spend so much time on the Tournament. 

[alre]

32 minutes ago, 70H4NN2S said:

I started the tournament without any rules related to mods, how do you want to do it? Like, you will have to check each game from all the players to see if somebody activated proGui and co in some moment. They can activate it just in the later stage. That's to much work for me to do. I have already enough by trying to get the teams playing and to get as many players as possible, so that the game can consist at least of a 3vs3.
I would really need some help, because i can't spend so much time on the Tournament. 

I can check. just send me replay and tell me at which minutes you think you find foul play from which player. Of course I expect whoever makes the claim to first screen the replay themselves with "follow player" activated.

But a this point I'd rather play freely with the mod on.

[70H4NN2S]

9 minutes ago, alre said:

I can check. just send me replay and tell me at which minutes you think you find foul play from which player. Of course I expect whoever makes the claim to first screen the replay themselves with "follow player" activated.

But a this point I'd rather play freely with the mod on.

Yeah, it's to late to change something. But we might change things for the second tournament, if we ever start one. Somebody might develop a mod or a parser that identifies strange interactions that are not human, so we can check the validity after the game or so. Maybe everybody will use proGui until then xd
and we are just in time to create a parser that checks for autoSniping xd

[alre]

lol I can totally do the parser. if I need to.