Planet maps

[MirceaKitsune]

I know this is less likely to happen in practice, given it would likely require significant engine changes for something many might find too unusual to be worth it. At the same time, especially considering Pyrogenesis can be used for different products and genres including space / scifi, I definitely don't see it as something too wild to consider at all.

So yeah, I was thinking about planet maps. Right now a map must be flat, circular though rectangular edges are also supported if I'm not mistaken. Were this idea to happen both custom and random maps would support an additional spherical format: When used the terrain is generated as a sphere rather than a plane. Obviously it could only produce unrealistically small planets you can easily circle around... even so it could be an interesting concept for sure.

Such maps could provide both unique mechanics and visuals alike. Mechanically the biggest change is everything warps around, you can attack from different sides which would make the gameplay special. Visually it would also be an unique feat rarely done in an RTS: Apart from having an actual horizon where distant terrain covers while buildings have different inclination (think the effect in Animal Crossing), imagine being able to zoom out and see the whole planet from space!

Obviously this would imply big changes to scrolling and movement: The camera would work differently as it pivots around the center point of the sphere, moving the view would also rotate it. All unit / building models will need to point toward the center of the sphere, otherwise just be aligned too the spherical surface and that should be it... not sure if pathfinding would have bigger issues getting adapted. Daytime and atmosphere would be a trickier one since we don't even have a dynamic day / night cycle for existing maps (although I think one can be scripted), seeing the proper time of day based on your camera position would be the cherry on the cake were the the rest to be implemented successfully.

If supporting actual sphere mapped terrain is impossible, a simpler alternative would be allowing rectangular maps that are seamless and repeat around the edges. This would surely be easier to implement, main hurdle being a technique to render copies of terrain and models across seams while also allowing the camera to scroll seamlessly. However this method wouldn't allow zooming out so you can see the entire planet and manipulate it like Google Earth, zoom would have to be limited or you'll see infinite copies of everything.

[Gurken Khan]

Wasn't @Stan` kind of working on a scifi mod? I don't know if he had any ideas about planet mapping.

[Loki1950]

There is a major problem/issue with planet maps for any game engine namely scale how do you represent millions of square miles of a planet that the game mechanics can manipulate fast enough for actual game play.

Enjoy the Choice

[alre]

the minimap should be remade too. 

16 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Wasn't @Stan` kind of working on a scifi mod? I don't know if he had any ideas about planet mapping.

no mod can do this. needs engine changes.

[Stan`]

I'm working with a school in rennes for a Sci-fi mod. They are making some progress yeah, but no planet mapping.

[MirceaKitsune]

18 hours ago, Loki1950 said:

There is a major problem/issue with planet maps for any game engine namely scale how do you represent millions of square miles of a planet that the game mechanics can manipulate fast enough for actual game play.

Enjoy the Choice

Correct, the planet wouldn't be to scale obviously: It would be more the size of a small meteor technically speaking. That's the one bit of realism that wouldn't be possible... unless someone wanted to wait an hour for the map to finish generating then get 1 FPS if the system doesn't run out of memory in the process, we might get something the size of the moon in that case Then again this is an environment where an entire empire is built in 30 minutes as buildings and people are created and grow up in mere seconds, spacetime scale would never be accurate.

3 hours ago, Stan` said:

I'm working with a school in rennes for a Sci-fi mod. They are making some progress yeah, but no planet mapping.

That is fascinating to hear about! Is it going to be an open-source project we will all be able to enjoy? Any demos screenshots or videos that can be shared at this date? I always wanted to see a scifi RTS built on Pyrogenesis, the engine is great for it and other genres as well.

Also a fun little fact: Part of what inspired me to consider this feature is a game from my early childhood. I believe it was called Populous, I'm sure there's at least one other person here who's heard of it and played that decades ago. It was the first fully 3D game I ever played and one of the earliest: It was a RTS where 4 tribes met and fought on different planets using shamans and magic. I don't think it had planet mapping for the world either, especially in that era I doubt they could have went that far even if they wanted... I do remember you chose a planet from the menu or something like that.

[Stan`]

10 hours ago, MirceaKitsune said:

That is fascinating to hear about! Is it going to be an open-source project we will all be able to enjoy? Any demos screenshots or videos that can be shared at this date? I always wanted to see a scifi RTS built on Pyrogenesis, the engine is great for it and other genres as well.

It started out as a project of mine, although in the end they did not end up using my assets.

The main menu of my mod

https://github.com/0adMods/stella_artis

Here is a screenshot of their mod.

[sternstaub]

On 26/01/2023 at 3:37 AM, Loki1950 said:

There is a major problem/issue with planet maps for any game engine namely scale how do you represent millions of square miles of a planet that the game mechanics can manipulate fast enough for actual game play.

You don't. But is is not neccessarily required to simulate a whole planet at once. 

The thing about video games is that they are actually a delusion. Maybe change the question. Not "how to simulate a whole planet?", but "how to make the players brain adopt the idea of commanding troops on a planet?". There would basically be no practical need to render 100% of a large-scale map. Trees within the FoW for example - who cares? They only must be graphically rendered when cam is near, and value only must be computed while being farmed by civil units.

Which brings me to ask, could PG do chunk rendering? And if not, would it per design be rather simple or rather hard to implement? Do all maps have to be circular? 

[Loki1950]

There is still the problem of organizing those sub-parts of the planetary map into a whole that can be navigated by the players. The issue dose not go away with the change in perspective it is just abstracted differently.

Enjoy the Choice   

[sternstaub]

45 minutes ago, Loki1950 said:

Enjoy the Choice

Still too many questions for any choice. common problem. fear of enjoying too much later.