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When user leave rated game it should be automatically reported


BeTe
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  • 2 weeks later...
  On 17/01/2023 at 9:38 AM, hoanvu99hn said:

I think yes, sorry for you, I very rarely see teammates leaving the game

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I am talking about 1v1 Rated games. He see he will lose and just exits game, which annoys winner as he must report it around.

I saw some games like Red Alert 1 don't have Resign but only Exit button, so I guess some people do this unintentionally. Even if not, it makes sense to auto-report when user exits. 

 

Do you @Stan` maybe know if this is already considered for some of (next?) releases? 

Edited by BeTe
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  On 17/01/2023 at 2:33 PM, Stan` said:

You need a dedicated server because it's the host that sends the ratings. If the host quits, gets ddosed or whatever nothing is sent. 

There has been some work there but it has gone stale.

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Algorithm 1:

(On 0ad client)

if host exits and guest is still online, report guest as winner.

if hosts exits after guest, report host as winner. 

Algorithm 2:

(On 0ad Ratings Server)

if game started N hours ago and host not reported anything, mark guest as winner.

 

Could one of these work?

Edited by BeTe
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  On 17/01/2023 at 3:02 PM, BeTe said:

if host exits and guest is still online, report guest as winner.

if hosts exits after guest, report host as winner. 

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We currently don't know who is online in a game. You might be only online on the lobby. The game is happening on the host's computer so there is no information that comes back to us.

  On 17/01/2023 at 3:02 PM, BeTe said:

(On 0ad Ratings Server)

if game started N hours ago and host not reported anything, mark guest as winner.

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I suppose that could work @user1 @Dunedan @rossenburg but how much time? It might be a very long game?

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@Stan` Oh, then Alg.1 would require Guest to send ping to server when he start Rated game. In General it might be worth to think sending more info to server about Rated matches... for further tunings... But I know we are tight with resources (developers' time). 

For Alg.2 , this has to be discussed... But I guess no game can take more than 2h, otherwise, no resources will exist on map. :D So, I guess if we put 5h, it should be fine. Also 10h would work... basically anything, just to avoid manual work...

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It's not impossible but there are certain things to be considered. The bot receives game reports from players when they submit a report using an IQ stanza and a payload containing a "gamereport" element.  If only one player submits a report, the bot will still process the report and update the leaderboard and ratings for that player, but it won't be able to update the ratings for the other player as there is no game report from them. If the other player doesn't submit a report at all, the bot will not have any information about their performance in the game and will not be able to update their ratings. My question is, what if the host rather left the game? 

If the host leaves the game before it ends, the game will be considered as a draw and no ratings will be awarded to any player. If the host leaves after the game has ended, it is likely that the game report will not be submitted to the bot, and in that case, the bot will not receive any information about the game and will not update the ratings of any player. Considering the host as a winner in a 1v1 after the opponent left the game for a certain number of minutes or hours (depending) is possible and can be easily done, but in a case where the host rather left, how do we handle that since there isn't any info submitted to the bot

@user1 @Dunedan

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I don't think the technical aspect of how to implement an automatic loss for someone who leaves a rated game is the meaningful consideration here.

The intention of the ELO rating system is not to punish players for leaving games but instead it's meant to provide a scoring/ranking system that would hopefully, after enough games are played, represent somewhat closely the reality of which players are better than others. This is also meant to be used as a tool which can help players and the host of a match to assess players' skill level and assign balanced teams.

The phenomenon of players leaving a rated match is usually the following case: A player realizes they're losing and so instead of allowing themselves to lose points they attempt to subvert the system so their rating will remain unchanged. This is against the rules. Reports of this are reviewed and confirmed as an instance of this happening.

I guess it seems it wouldn't make much sense to award a win to a new player who starts a rated match with someone rated much higher but then, due to some circumstance, the match ended prematurely with points not being awarded. The new player is not a better player than the other. If rating points were to be awarded I think it would necessarily result in the rating of the new player being inflated improperly. The same can be said about players that are near to each other in skill but one is probably (at least slightly) better than the other. Awarding to someone an unearned win by giving ELO ratings points doesn't seem to make sense if one is considering the intention of the ELO system.

I wonder if there could be a separate system (honor points of some sort?) which can be used as a demerit for bad behaviour or a reward for good behaviour, not affecting the ELO of players since otherwise it's undermining the ELO.

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  On 20/01/2023 at 4:59 PM, user1 said:

I wonder if there could be a separate system (honor points of some sort?) which can be used as a demerit for bad behaviour or a reward for good behaviour, not affecting the ELO of players since otherwise it's undermining the ELO.

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Maybe that could be computed by using the report of the players, e.g if you get half the reports the other guy loses honor points?

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@user1 Good points, but you opened a new rating-system debate. ELO is one of many systems to evaluate skills, so I'd rather skip that big discussion in this Topic. 

I am strictly talking about automation things, not about punishing or awarding. Just give win or lose appropriately. For me, minimal work regarding this is to make Exit and Resign button should have same result in Rated games. Some RTS games doesn't have Resign button at all, I think.

For me it's frustrating to report breaking rules after hard fight. At the end, it also provides you more job than you should have...

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  On 21/01/2023 at 3:06 PM, BeTe said:

@user1 Good points, but you opened a new rating-system debate. ELO is one of many systems to evaluate skills, so I'd rather skip that big discussion in this Topic. 

I am strictly talking about automation things, not about punishing or awarding. Just give win or lose appropriately. For me, minimal work regarding this is to make Exit and Resign button should have same result in Rated games. Some RTS games doesn't have Resign button at all, I think.

For me it's frustrating to report breaking rules after hard fight. At the end, it also provides you more job than you should have...

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i guess it will be frustrating if a host mistakenly got disconnected, came back to the lobby and his point has been deducted? I think your focus is on the other player's side but we should consider the host too. It won't be that wise to make the exit button function the same as the resign button because once you get disconnected from a rated game regardless of the cause:internet issue, pc went off by any means or even ddos (without resign) will be considered an ended game. The exit button is different from resign button because they both play different roles, as far as the game is still up, you can exit and rejoin without having your ratings deducted and i believe its fine because most players gets disconnected during games and they are able to rejoin back quickly without having their ratings deducted.There are some situation that wouldn't require a rating deduction considering your suggestion. Since the game is being hosted on the host's side i think once a host is disconnected , the other player gets disconnected too. I don't know if one day we can host games in the cloud , when host gets disconnected session is still alive for sometimes for it dies. But the merit system mentioned earlier by @user1 sounds like a plan to me

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@rossenburg 

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i guess it will be frustrating if a host mistakenly got disconnected, came back to the lobby and his point has been deducted? 

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But it's very rare, right? Much more than rage quitting?

But anyways, if that happens - sorry man, you were unlucky this time.  WRC Rally driver gets frustrated when his car dies or slow down, etc. That's part of life, sorry man.

At the end if that happens to either player, people still can report that in a same way as victims of rage quitters do now. Isn't that more fair? 

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I think your focus is on the other player's side but we should consider the host too.

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No, whoever exits, he lose. Why would another player suffer and wait, no matter is he host or guest?

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