guerringuerrin

Are you sure it's not only a gamer mouse with multi-click macro buttons? Do you have some code or proof about it?

Yeah, might be too technic. Maybe this commentary in that PR describes better why I think could help on this: Oh I understand and I think you are right about "Attacking ranged units beyond melee and then running away when ur melee is all gone will remain." The way I see it, targeting ranged units to eliminate them first (given their higher damage) is somewhat part of combat micro skills, just like sniping a Hero, rams, or other high-value units. And this probably wouldn’t be as necessary with a different balance for combat units (e.g. melee units stronger against projectiles). That’s why, from my perspective, when we talk about the sniping problem in 0 A.D., we’re referring to the repetitive action of targeting units with a group or using Alt+click to pick them off first. Which creates that “whoever clicks more wins” dynamic. But I can be wrong.

Hey @RangerK!. You might be interested in taking a look at this PR. Basically, it would allow targeting groups of units using the selection box, which could make sniping as a gameplay mechanic obsolete.

@seregadushka I think you’re making too many assumptions about me that you don’t actually know, but at this point it doesn’t really matter. I’ll quote my first reply to your message below this answer. I don’t think there’s anything disrespectful or aggressive in it. I don’t consider it a bug to not have a fully automated training system like ModernGUI does (I mention this mod because, after Atrik’s reply, you brought it up as a solution to your initial suggestion). And I took the time to lay out my arguments. But it’s just my opinion, not an attack on you. In fact, in that first message I said: “However, I could imagine having an option in the settings that allows the auto-queue to remain active and automatically resume production once the required resources are available again.” Which, if I understand correctly, is more or less what you’re asking for. On the other hand, I can’t be held responsible for the tone or responses of other users. This is a public forum,many people can reply to you. If others replied badly, that’s on them. It’s your choice how you respond, and you can’t justify your behavior by pointing to others responding poorly.

@seregadushkai talked to you with respect until u started to trashtalk me. if you know how to code you probably know (or can learn easy) how to make a pull request. repository is here: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad

In fact, it’s not a matter of majorities or whether there’s opposition. He’s completely free to submit a PR and have the devs evaluate it. I don’t think what’s been discussed here will have much influence. But of course, if opposing opinions from community members are met with arrogance and insults, it will most likely provoke an equally negative response. And that’s exactly what this know-it-all has been doing since he started replying to others’ opinions. Many criticisms like these come up from time to time from “so-called anonymous” users, and yeah, it would be good to see whether they’re as good at actually doing as they are at trash-talking.

Ok, the bad censoring wasnt intended. I guess image got compressed when uploading and revelead. that was my bad. I do not know who he is but it's actually pretty obvious he is smurf anyways. Yeah, maybe I wouldn’t change the balance. Balance depends on several factors. But I’ve seen the advantages your mod provides in critical moments. I’ve seen regular players substantially improve their unit production and become very competent cavalry raiders. I’ve seen players being attacked and defending themselves while the trainer keeps producing units for them, even in moments when it would be humanly impossible for anyone to assign perfectly calculated batches while having to defend on the battlefront or raid the enemy’s base. For me, the facts are clear: in critical moments where every second counts, where good battle micro makes the difference, and where fast repop is crucial, your mod maintains unit production almost perfectly without moving a single finger.

There are many QOL features in ModernGUI that I really appreciate. I think you’ve done an excellent job giving players the flexibility to customize the GUI to their liking, and you’ve kept alive features from other discontinued mods that are highly valued by the community. However, regarding the automation of the training system, I feel you’ve gone too far. I also think you’re overlooking something very important: the player’s awareness in the heat of battle. We are not perfect machines that remember to perform all the necessary actions at the exact right moment to keep our economy running smoothly. Your mod does an excellent job of removing a large part of that burden. The users of your mod can see it for themselves, which is why I find it frustrating that you don’t seem to recognize the advantages it provides.

If you follow the thread, you know that’s not the point in question. But if someone says that’s not what ModernGUI does, of course I’ll discuss it.

I see what you mean, but I find calling it “having additional possibilities to actually control the production” is an euphemism. ModernGUI actually does more than just provide control. You can set the percentage of each unit type, and as long as you have resources and houses, it automatically queues units, calculating in milliseconds how many each building can train and executing all orders, freeing the player to focus on other tasks. Of course, you’ll still need to check the barracks occasionally and make other decisions, but IMHO “highly automated” fits this behavior well. I don’t want to turn this thread into another ModernGUI discussion, but I felt it’s important not to misrepresent its functionality in the context of this debate.

You are right. Comparing mechanics from other RTS games to discuss a mechanic in an RTS game makes absolutely no sense…

Perhaps you should ask yourself why thousands of people are still playing Age of Empires II or StarCraft II in the international competitive scene and haven’t left despite having to make thousands of clicks. Anyway, I see you’re a clever guy who came here to explain to all of us how stupid we are, appealing to analogies and “smart” comments, while you can’t even beat Petra Bot, which must be one of the dumbest RTS AIs out there.

I think car analogies don’t work very well for discussing RTS design. But even if we were to accept it as a valid comparison rather than a false analogy, I’ll explain why I still think it doesn’t hold: The Model T today is mostly a collector’s item and is no longer part of the modern car's market. By contrast, StarCraft: Brood War still has active professional tournaments, specially in South Korea. And the same unit-training mechanics are still present in modern competitive RTS titles like StarCraft II and the Age of Empires series, which continue to run esports tournaments with significant prize pools. So this isn’t just a case of defending an obsolete design. These mechanics are still part of the competitive RTS ecosystem today. However, I’m still not entirely sure what we are actually discussing here: whether the goal is simply to add an option so that the vanilla auto-queue pauses until enough resources are available, or whether the intention is to introduce a highly automated system like the smart training from the ModernGUI mod. In that system, production not only resumes automatically when resources become available, but the game also determines the batch sizes based on the available resources and distributes the training across all eligible buildings through the training panel provided by the mod. Because those are two very different things.

That paragraph you quote refers to something slightly different: it describes how units are assigned when the player orders training using a selected group of barracks. Even when resources are available and auto-queue is enabled, this behavior occurs in the same way if the available resources are not sufficient. As for whether barracks should remain with auto-queue enabled or not, I addressed that earlier above: Now, I think you are referring to something beyond simply keeping auto-queue enabled, and you are advocating for a fully automated training system. That is highly debatable from a game design perspective and can hardly be considered “a bug.” There are plenty of successful RTS games that do not automate this aspect.

This is already solved here: https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/7806 and will be available in R29

Hi, @seregadushka I agree that the vanilla training system has some issues, and even some behaviors that may feel like bugs, although perhaps for somewhat different reasons than the ones you mentioned. In many RTS games (including some very famous, successful ones that are still widely played today) it is normal for the player to pay attention to unit production. In fact, many of those games do not even have an auto-queue feature like the one that exists in 0 A.D. As for whether the auto-queue should automatically resume once resources become available again, I think that falls more into the area of design decisions. Personally, I find it difficult to consider the current behavior a bug. However, I could imagine having an option in the settings that allows the auto-queue to remain active and automatically resume production once the required resources are available again. What I do consider a real issue in the current system is the way units are assigned to production buildings. At the moment, when you order units from a group of barracks, the system does not prioritize barracks that are idle or less occupied. As a result, it is quite common for new units to be added to barracks that already have long queues, while others remain completely unused. This often leads to unnecessarily long production queues and an inefficient distribution of unit training. And you end up going through your barracks one by one, trying to find which one ended up with a huge production queue and which ones were left idle. In fact, there is currently a PR in progress in the repository that aims to address exactly this problem. The idea is to prioritize the least occupied barracks when assigning newly trained units. I hope to finish it in time for it to be included in the next version of the game. You don't have to rely only on the mouse. You can use control groups to select all your barracks with a single key, and you can also use the keyboard to choose which units to produce and even the batch size. So it is perfectly possible to manage production using only your left hand.

I'm not at home for the weekend (father in law 70s birthday ) Let's do another testrun during the week

are we still talking about batches here?

I'd love to add this to the training system improvements

I'm not particularly against of him to comeback but I don't think supremacist claims like saying black people, latins, women, muslims are inferior humans is "game psychology". It's also true that gaming environment is super toxic speccialy in strategic teamplay game. So maybe is not a big deal for some ppl. Also, as far as I know he actually could join the lobby and play. But I guess he is not that smart after all... (But in fact I think he is roaming around using automute mod.) Also this:

Yes, the vanilla training system has many limitations that, in my opinion, are a form of malfunction. I think that frustration can lead users to look for alternatives. In fact, I’ve been working on a mod that always prioritizes empty barracks, and my goal is to have it implemented in the next release (PR #8483). While respecting the “no automation principle”, I believe removing unnecessary limitations is something positive.

I guess that’s a bit like life, right? A person can be many things at the same time. It’s also true that we are a very small community, so frictions naturally arise. Also, I don’t support encouraging hatred. And I think @Atrik has contributed many positive things, even if there are some aspects I don’t like. Personally, I consider the automation features in ModernGUI’s training system a clear advantage, and we have discussed this publicly many times. Aside from that, all the GUI aspects of the mod are really great. The configuration wizard is excellent. In my view, a game that allows you to configure the GUI the way you like—the more freedom it gives you, the better the user experience. Of course, there can be some nuance regarding how far certain visualizations might also be considered an advantage, although I see that as a relatively minor issue.

Right now you can accomplished the same by using the "Order one unit" command (alt by default I think) . You can grab a bunch of units and, by holding the modifier key assigned for this command, send one by one to each farm. like alt+left click 3 times on every farm. I think a feature similar like this #8525 would also be useful for gathering. It would help with chopping wood as well, since targeting certain trees can be a pain and workers often end up crowding on one side of the woodline.

Thats expectable. You are keep capturing the building with 3 strong units. So every point they decay you are recapturing. Your friend could have do the same. In fact, he did with some but I they were common pikemen, so not enough to keep control up. So it’s not a bug or an exploit. He would have kept the buildings if he had used champions. EDIT: @dinuruian i updated the video, it was bad cropped 20260310-1207-35.7648851.mp4

20260310-1153-51.1347075.mp4 Take a look at this Its just 3 units but they are Champs pikemen. They have 5 capture points (double of common pikemen)