guerringuerrin

looks great

Thinking about new features for the release, if this PR gets merged, maybe we could go with Chariton of Aphrodisias (Χαρίτων, Chariton) was a Greek writer of the Roman imperial period, known as the author of Chaereas and Callirhoe, one of the ancient Greek novels preserved in its entirety. Almost nothing is known about his life, but his work holds an important place in the early history of the Western novel. Caryatid is also a great option!!

And this is what I mean when I say that the tendency to readjust can sometimes lead to weird situations. For example, here I just want to move the infantry group blocking the gate out of the way to make room for the siege engines. But since the whole battalion is selected automatically and the units are spread out, issuing a move command makes them all rearrange themselves. Maybe a modifier key that lets you move individual units separately could do the trick, but I'm not sure.

@Atrik, I've made a bit more progress in the campaign, and I'm having quite a lot of fun with it. I wanted to share a few things I've noticed. At one point, I captured a spot to found a city that was similar to the one at the beginning of the campaign. When I fought the bandits, though, I had such a large army that I was well over the 40-pop limit, so I had to just sit there and wait for the waves to come without doing anything. Perhaps that spot was meant to be discovered earlier, when the army wasn't quite so massive yet. As for the combat experience with battalions, I like it quite a lot. It opens up a range of interesting and fun possibilities. I think there's room for improvement in cavalry movement. At times, that tendency to constantly readjust feels a bit artificial and forced. It also makes it quite difficult to move battalions around. I'd perhaps try allowing cavalry to be used without a formation. Also, given that the motion rework is in place, it would be nice to experience it on these pre-built battlefields. I'd also like to be able to control siege engines individually. That would let you spread them out a bit to avoid them blocking each other and cover a wider attack area with bolts and catapults. Also, hotkeys to focus on next task, ignore next task and next turn, would be neat Lastly, I think attack-move behaves strangely. Towards the end of the video, you can also see a bug I've run into quite often: when I use attack-move, the battalion just stands still, and the only way to get it moving again is to use the regular move command.

Ah, I see, you're probably referring to Geneva55's comment. I don't see him expressing himself the way you did. The way you say things and your track record in the project matter. There may be more, I'm not going to spend time rereading old posts. But if you want to go to the trouble of quoting every message, go ahead. It's one of your specialties. Ah so you are pointing fingers afterall, or not? As for the StarCraft II example, I really don't think 0 A.D. is faster. I understand why you're using training and research times as a reference, but a game's pacing is determined by many other factors as well. But at that point, it's a matter of personal opinion. I've already tried to convince you that it's not a good argument, but you still think it is. That's fair. LOL You are amazing, mate. Amazing

Anyone can have an opinion about what would be better for the game or what it’s lacking, and they won’t be insulted by me for it. The only person I’ve "insulted" is you, @Thalatta (and I didn’t even insult you). Because you give yourself the liberty of directly singling out a group of people (that you don’t even know) and holding them responsible for certain limitations of the game. At least have the courage not to play the victim and twist my words.

You didn't do anything wrong. Everyone shares your wishes, and your proposals are welcome. Just to be clear, nothing I said was directed at you. Sorry for bringing conflict into your thread. I get annoyed by the attitude of certain people who point fingers and look for someone to blame. That attitude contributes absolutely nothing. But I should have kept quiet.

I tried station my army but I couldn't. Right click in the city wouldnt work

@Thalatta, the only thing I'm questioning is that you single out a group of players as a minority that has co-opted the gameplay side of things and refuses to open up to "improvements". You don't name anyone in particular, but it's obvious which side you're pointing the finger at. And you started doing that very early on, right from the beginning of your time on the forum. We've discussed this several times already. You're not in a position to decide who represents the best vision for the game. As for my criticism of your contributions, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings so much that you'd feel the need to start listing them and even tagging people. It was a more general remark, evidently poorly worded, intended to question your lack of humility. I'm sorry. But it's clear you're not the only one who thinks it's appropriate to single out particular groups of players as holding back the game's progress. Perhaps I'm the one who's wrong. Time will tell.

@AtrikI played it for a bit and have fun It looks very promising! I can't figure out how to add soldiers to my hero in "board mode" nvm found it. those message tips could highlight when asking to move the hero =)

@Thalatta, your original message that I replied to is pretty clear. I'll quote it again: "it's painful to see that all the amazing work the devs have done is being used to cater an unrepresentative, yet habitué, group that wants a rushed game that's 3 times faster than the already competitive StarCraft II" As if the devs had nothing to do with timings and other gameplay decisions. Or perhaps those aren't "the devs" or maybe not all, or they're just "contributors". Better yet, to adapt it to your terminology, which is extremely precise: "an unrepresentative group". Yes, of course it bothers me. You have absolutely no idea who these people are. You have no idea what they discuss. And you're in no position to dictate what kind of gameplay experience the majority prefers. As for dismissing the opinions of people who leave the game, you couldn't be more wrong. But I don't think pacing (which isn't just about training times) is the decisive factor. If anything, it's player onboarding: the lack of campaigns, improvements to tutorials, improvements to the Petra Bot, friendly GUI. But basically, the single-player experience. No, I'm telling to you this. You barely arrived before you started pointing fingers.

I know the timings. Do you really think it all comes down to that? Have you ever watched a good, average-level SC2 or AoE II player and then watched one of the very best 0 A.D. players? The difference in APM is OVERWHELMING. And the game is moving even further in that direction with patches like Box Targeting. You can keep telling everyone how things should be done, you can keep spamming every post that comes along with your detailed observations. but if you attack people you don't even know, you'll have to deal with the backlash. So I will quote your own words again, which were utterly offensive and showed absolutely no consideration for a whole bunch of people you don't even know.

Of course it bothers me when you say things like this: I can't understand how you can say that SC2 is slower. I doubt you even play it. But it doesn't matter. You’ll find very few people on this forum pointing fingers at those they believe are responsible for this project’s lack of success, and you’re one of them. And I’m not even sure you know who you’re pointing fingers at. That’s perfectly fine. You don’t have to be interested in it. A challenge that originated within the community itself, presumably lacking the credentials of representativeness that, for some reason, you have the authority to assign after some months roaming the forum. Very similar challenges can be found in undisputed successes of the genre, just have a look at the aoe2 challenges. But to you, this is an example of why people leave this game: “because it’s too fast, poor devs whose hard work was co-opted by an unrepresentative group.” Well, I don't find anything funny about it

What strikes me is the confidence with which you talk about a community you don't even know, lurking around threads and cherry-picking opinions that fit your own view of the game. What's more, you have the audacity to make arguments based on percentages as if you had conducted some kind of data analysis study of the community, when in reality, you're interacting with barely 10 people on the forum. It takes some nerve to come here and tell everyone how things should be done when you've demonstrated so little. And I'm genuinely surprised by how someone can be so confident in their opinions while telling everyone how things should be done when they've demonstrated so little, let alone making claims about an MP community and player base they don't know at all.

I'd bet it's ModernGUI's smart training system, or some other variant.

Welcome, @HELIOZAH! I recommend checking out this basic economy guide by ValihrAnt, who is one of the best (if not the best) 0 A.D. players. He happens to play Romans in the video! Although it was made for an older version of the game, the fundamental concepts it teaches still apply perfectly to the current version. You can also check out these channels for some fairly competitive multiplayer matches: https://www.youtube.com/@sneakep https://www.youtube.com/@0ADNewbieRush And if you want to watch live gameplay from another one of the best players in the community, you can check out this channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SaidRdzRTS Although there's no commentary, you can still learn a lot just by watching his technique! Good luck!

@NiRa Muso MIOZOTO This is the No Violence Mod. All attack abilities are removed. You can't even kill animals, so it seems perfect for what you're looking for.There's also a link to the version uploaded to mod.io, unfortunately, it's outdated. It will need some work to make it compatible with the current version. You could also take the opportunity to change the icon. mod.io link: https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/noviolence-mod

I don't think it's necessary to represent the different types of food sources. Quite the opposite, one food item in the icon is enough. People understand it perfectly well and it makes the icon much easier to read at small sizes, which is far more important than representing all the different possible food sources in a 16x16 px space.; there's no need to overcomplicate things. Your lifestyle choices and the way you choose to raise your children are entirely respectable. However, I don't think appealing to veganism is a sufficient argument to justify this change. It's difficult to determine where to draw the line when deciding aspects of the game based on specific ideologies. Not long ago, a user suggested that Mauryan maidens should be covered up because, based on his own moral beliefs, this was wrong. And there are many similar cases. That's why I mentioned the historical aspect as a more consistent basis for arguing in favor of this change.

I don't fully understand this point. I think there are more important things to address than vegan sensitivities in a real-time strategy game about ancient civilizations. But perhaps, from a historical perspective, agriculture could be considered a foundational milestone in the rise of great civilizations. I'm not sure whether it played a more significant role than animal husbandry in this regard, but that would be a valid (and strong) argument in favor of changing the icon. Ideally, it looks good, but from a design perspective, I don't think it's a good idea. Keeping the iconography simple is important to avoid making things unnecessarily difficult to read. It’s also worth considering how this would look on smaller monitors. Regarding the design of resource icons in general. Personally, I think they are quite consistent with the actual resources players gather from the map. Wood for wood, stone for stone, metal for metal. I don't think there's much to gain from overcomplicating these kinds of GUI elements. It sounds like a good fit for a specific mod aimed at creating a simulator of ancient civilizations.

It is, at least on land units with persians immortals

New test on this last commit ee1083529d: The commit before this one had identified that elephant deadlock when trying to pass through narrow passages. Two elephants try to pass through the passage at the same time. They have the same strength and resistance, and neither of them stops pushing: With the latest commit, this no longer happens. They can still take a while to get through sometimes, but they eventually manage to pass. Overall, I think the resolution of these deadlocks has improved significantly: Here I’m sharing the basic test I’ve been repeating with 24 elephants going through a base with narrow paths with micro: And here I’m sharing some other tests simulating a more or less standard army: This first video shows how the infantry units are able to advance without being significantly blocked by the elephants. The positioning of the elephants at the front is intentional. You can see how they block the entrances, yet the infantry is still able to push through them without major issues. Here, you can first see me repositioning my army to achieve an optimal formation. The infantry units flow smoothly through the moving elephants without any issues. Secondly, we can see that I send the army to the other side and move an elephant that was about to block others coming toward the passage from another angle, allowing them to get through quickly. Toward the end of the video, you can see me stop the last elephant moving along the upper line to help the infantry get through quickly. This is an interesting situation: even though the infantry units are faster than the elephant, they still aren’t fast enough to simply move around it, so the elephant ends up blocking their path. The solution is simply to stop the elephant for a few seconds. Another example of the infantry advancing smoothly, even when the elephants get heavily stuck at the various entrances: My overall impression of this latest commit is very positive. The elephants feel heavy to control but still reasonably fluid. I like that they feel heavy. They’re huge and heavy units. (I’d love to see them charging in side by side, swinging their tusks around and sending soldiers flying through the air. A charge-like ability with a cooldown would probably be OP, though. Sorry for the digression. ) Although less frequently, some of them will still get stuck in narrow passages. However, with a bit of practice, it’s easy to identify which ones need to be moved to clear the elephant jam. And honestly, I think it’s fine that this happens. They are large, heavy units that can easily knock down a building. I think it could even be an exploit to have a unit that can quickly flow through narrow paths while pushing enemy units ( while trampling them ) and reach its destination with a single click. It feels like a pretty reasonable drawback: You want to mass elephants and reach the enemy CC? Do a little micro. In fact, the most natural (and fastest) thing to do would be to destroy a few houses and make your way through. The infantry would probably capture some of the barracks, opening up even more space. As for the movement of mixed armies, it really feels and looks great. I forgot to include a video with cavalry, so I’m not sure if there’s one with the latest adjustments. It’s very, very good. I don’t think the elephant jamming is enough of a reason to block this PR. The improvements this work brings are clearly more valuable. In vanilla, we can see greater fluidity due to the overlapping. But the result is not only unrealistic, it also looks ugly. It’s like a snake of fast-moving pachyderms, so light and nimble that a single infantryman can stop them. In this video, I forgot about the enemy’s initial army, so they rushed in to attack the elephants, who ended up getting completely stuck against just four infantry units. So, ultimately, I think this is a gameplay decision. From a technical standpoint, I think the issues are already pretty well addressed. Perhaps the only thing still missing is some fine-tuning for ships. And it would be great to test some actual games over the next few days. We can coordinate and play a few 1v1s, and hopefully we can get some 2v2 games in as well. @AtrikI think I would add the pushing property to the worker elephant, but not the trampling property. A picture:

Hey @Arup, is this the same version as the one in mod downloader? Or you've made some changes? I'm confused

Yes, I agree with you. Although I’m not sure elephants necessarily need to be able to move smoothly through the narrowest possible passages. There has to be a point where the elephant’s size actually matters mechanically, and in those situations, the most logical choice seems to be to destroy the house rather than try to squeeze through it. But I think trying elliptical hitboxes is reasonable. I got the impression that implementing them would be quite complicated, but if there’s any possibility of doing it, I’d definitely give it a try.

I managed to block my 24 elephants again. The gaps they tried to pass through are quite small. I’ll clarify again here that I’m deliberately trying to push things a bit. In particular, I’d like you to look at what happens with the group at the bottom, which has a visibly wider path than the group at the top. The first elephant goes straight through, but the second one, which is coming slightly from the side, collides with the house and turns to its left to try to go around the house. However, there is no longer enough space for it to make the 90-degree turn, so it gets stuck at the corner of the structure's hitbox + some eles probably pushing it too, and ends up blocking all the eles. I replicated this with only a few elephants, and something similar happened. It seems that elephants need to make a 90-degree turn to go around a building, avoiding any contact between their hitbox and the corners of the structure. This can be seen in the following videos. There is clearly enough space for the elephant to pass through if it moved diagonally: The obvious conclusion is that the hitboxes are too large, both unit and building (I'm asuming hitbox are the green ones). They extend well beyond the 3D model that the user sees and create these visual inconsistencies: the elephant cannot pass through a gap that appears wide enough. Having the structure's hitbox larger than the model may be desirable to prevent units from clipping through it and perhaps also help with visual clarity. But for organic bodies, maybe we can cheat a little with this. And I think this is also why I mentioned several times trying to "give them more overlap". But perhaps that wasn’t the right term. Maybe it’s not a matter of giving them more overlap, but rather making their hitboxes smaller. This could help elephants move through gaps that appear wide enough to the user, and it would also prevent them from pushing each other without actually touching, as can also be seen in this same video (00:10). In this last example, we can see an elephant walking around the barracks while keeping an exaggerated distance from the structure's visible boundaries: One final clarification: It’s obvious that destroying the houses is the quickest way forward, and there’s no reason to expect the elephants to organize themselves perfectly and head straight for the fortress. After all, the purpose of this feature is to add more realism and make a huge creature like an elephant somewhat clumsy. However, I think there is still room to improve the visual inconsistencies I’ve shown, where there appears to be enough space for an elephant to pass through, but it nevertheless gets blocked. I think most users will consider these visual inconsistencies a bug, and they can make the experience somewhat frustrating. That’s why I keep pointing them out as something that I think needs to be addressed.

That’s why it’s good to have more people doing the testing. There are a thousand ways to break your work haha. Just kidding, it’s great that @Thalatta managed to compile it and test it. Alright, I’ll do some testing of my own tonight with this. Great work!