mysticjim

Just another Sunday in Newbie Rush land!

Bit of midweek action for y'all!

I used to book bands for a local venue. One night I thought I'd booked a Queen tribute act, but instead a group of Skiritai Commandos turned up in full armour. "Who the hell are you guys?!!!" I exclaimed. Their leader just looked up and said, "We are the Champions, my friend!"

Happy Sunday everybody! This is actually the 40th consecutive Sunday I've broadcast since I started the channel. We're getting within site of the first anniversary!

@Freagarach& @wraitiithat is really encouraging to hear, thank you.

@maroder - Nicely put, very diplomatic I'd also like to re-iterate, again, this isn't an attack on the devs or trying to put anyones nose out of joint. Evidently there are some strong opinions, and maybe some misunderstandings or clashing philosophies on the subject. And I agree with @maroder- people are playing, so it you're right, the existing approach - it's not a failed strategy. I'm just not sure it's enough anymore or a modern enough approach for contemporary digital landscape we find ourselves in. More than anything, I worry 0AD will fall victim of it and gradually become less relevant and ultimately never achieve the visibility or get the level of recognition it deserves as a project. That would be a bit, well, heart breaking, really.

Hello all, Okay, I'm struggling a little here - I don't want to come across as argumentative, or belittle anyones efforts in the project - but reading through the replies - I think we're talking in really crossed purposes here and could end up going around in circles. In general, I've held the belief that 0AD as a project does not communicate effectively with it's wider audience or wider potential audience. I'm not talking technical, not in any way. I'm talking about the weekly/monthly type of comms and announcements that a project could be expected to put out in short, understandable, digestible form, across the mainstream social platforms - if for no other reason than to make it clear that the project still has a pulse. I'm talking about engaging with people you wouldn't otherwise engage with, maximising your reach - getting fresh eyeballs on the game. People who may not actually care one jot about the finer technical detail. What is it, what does it do, why should I play it, is the project heading in an upward trajectory, whats the latest? And quite importantly, the next iteration of the game is scheduled at this time, and these are some of the new things you'll be able to do. Maybe you'd class it as 'filler?' Just noise to throw out into the echo chamber the fill the gaps when otherwise there isn't much to report?. Well, like it or loathe it - it works, it reaches people and they engage back. I keep seeing the same comments - either 'why have I never heard of this game before' or 'I used to play this a while back, but I thought the project was long dead, not heard anything about it in years.' Usually after they've accidentally discovered a random piece of third party content for the game. No amount of claiming that those people weren't looking in the places that suit you will change the fact you aren't reaching a huge swath of your potential target audience. You are not putting information in the right form, in the right places in the right way, at the right time, with the correct frequency. Your forum posts, wikis, lists and announcements do not and will never reach them using that approach. You're persisting with a 1990's approach to communication! And the bits of social media that do happen are so rare, there are endangered species of animals with greater presence and visibility! In response to the claim that PR isn't a priority because the game isn't finished. It's a bit late for that, you're 24 alphas into the project, the genie is out of the bottle and you can't tell me that as a project you don't want as many people playing the game as possible? I'm assuming returning it to a closed alpha comprising of nothing but 'power users' is firmly not in the future plans? (or have I missed an 'announcement' about it!) With regards to the actual launch of A24 - okay, I get that after the difficult dev cycle, I can understand you were nervous that you might launch it and then suddenly discover a game-killing bug and have to backtrack. That would have looked a bit bad, but with hindsight, look - the game still works, testimony to the devs and their skills - would it have been as much of a mess and PR disaster as something like Cyberpunk 2077? A free, niche open source game - come off it! It would have had as much detrimental impact as a fart in deep space and you'd have patched it within a week. Would it really have hurt to announce it properly? And on a more general basis - would it really hurt to talk to people on a more ongoing, general basis? I think one person could do that for you giving up on average a couple of hours a week. How much more dev time happens per week? It's a drop in the ocean in comparison and should be a no brainer for the potential benefits it could bring. I'm at a loss as to how you can't see that. I spend more time editing my videos than that (cue someone shouting that I should spend longer doing that and less time writing this!) Cards on the table then - would you like me to do it in an official capacity? Do you want me to prove to you by a clear discernible set of metrics that developing a proper communication strategy and putting it into action to engage your community in a modern, professional and inclusive way works? I'd love to give it a go.

Because everyone who might ever want to play 0AD is a developer, right? Because there isn't a whole world of people with perfectly valid lives who have absolutely zero interest in development? I'm reading your words and all I'm hearing is 'it's okay that we don't know how to effectively communicate and what's more, it doesn't really matter.' You must know I'm never going to agree with that? @Stan` - I do like the Dave Mustane/Metallica reference, and as always - you balance yours words very eloquently. The hastily cut trailer thing, apologies, that's not a slight on you or it. We actually spoke right before you made the trailer, and it was clear that A24 would be dropping 'soon.' We did indeed talk at some length, certainly about what I could personally do to help things regarding the community of content creators around 0AD. It was clear at that time that you had a million pressures bearing down on all directions and it was clear that it was an an almost impossible and often thankless task. And you do deserve all the credit and appreciation for your work. Many could not get close to the effort you put in. What I did not expect, was to wake up one morning shortly after and find A24 had suddenly dropped in the way it did. And if anyone else suggests I should have been looking at this thread, or that channel, or this specific mailing list, lets break it down to the simplest bare fact. Was there a clear official announcement, in advance, to the wider 0AD audience and the wider world, not just a small number of minority comms channels, that 0AD 24 would be released on that day? I have to ask, with all the talk about time and motivation being a resource, compared to all the hard work that went into making the game, how much additional time and motivation would it have taken to let the people who play the game, and those just beyond who might be about to discover the game for the first time, know that this thing was going to drop on this given day? And this is on the back of 0AD's commitment to community engagement and communication being questioned throughout the development period numerous times. As @wowgetoffyourcellphonehas pointed out - you went and did the exact same thing again! And @Alar1k - I've already explained the use of AOE4 as an example. To think I'm comparing them on a level playing field is false, all I pointed out was that the largest spiritual ancestor of 0AD has a major new release coming out, after quite a few years of delay, and that the launch of A24 could have been a major PR opportunity to pick up a wealth of new players looking for something in the interim with a tiny amount of co-ordination. Who knows, they might actually appreciate that it's a good game and stick around! Audiences crossover, in fact that is how I discovered 0AD. They may not be looking in the places you want, but new players are always looking. And yes, 0AD is an interdisciplinary art project that is a collaboration between different artists (IT, historians, graphic designers, translators, writers and so on and so on...) - this additional depth is great and is a key to the uniqueness of the project - and it should be celebrated - but does that mean you should discriminate against the people who want to treat it just as a game? I've got a feeling they lie in the vast majority, and probably feel somewhat marginalized and probably a bit put out by that comment. There's nothing capitalistic in the approach I advocated. Nailing your message to the freely available and most publicly viewed walls in advance of something happening is the oldest, proven strategy for gaining attention known to humanity. Do you really need examples to understand that releasing a trailer and announcing a launch date BEFORE the actual release date in a co-ordinated fashion is good strategic sense? Yes, a AAA studio will have a whole team dedicated to blanket advertising. The small scale open source equivalent is one person, armed with a small amount of said time and motivation, a computer, an internet connection, the keys to the official social media and the understanding that this process actually matters and that no project is above it if they want new people to discover them. If you really want to see an example, check out out every thriving open source project you've ever heard of with a large user base. Which bits of this explanation are not constructive? (and don't just say, 'that last bit!') I do think 0AD needs that dedicated person - a volunteer, or small committee of volunteers, to give 0AD an effective PR mouthpiece that it has been lacking. Those people can't be too entrenched in the dev side of things because they can't have the justification of having too many technical 0AD commitments for not doing the role properly. I think finding those people would be a hell of a lot easier than finding replacement coders, artists, designers, historians, et al, within the community.

Indeed, to return to the original topic (sorry, that was my fault, I mentioned the Alpha thing!) In trying to boil the issues down to a few points, I can see; _an apparent disconnect between those making the game and everyone else. Obviously there are a few people closer to the dev side than others who hear bits and pieces and pass it on, but that generally leads to rumor, speculation, etc and isn't really that helpful. On the face of it, the offical 'mouthpiece' of 0AD - so the website, the news/announcements section of the forum, the official social media channels, are largely mute for extended periods of time, including in the run up to the release of a new iteration of the game - a time which is an unprecedented time of opportunity to expand the audience, but overall is symptomatic of the wider comms issues. _currently, a tiny number of devs working unpaid to make the game - who by their own admission, are both not having the time to deal with PR themselves and, understandably, not wanting to give up more of their time to take this task on / or - also understandably, personally not having any interest in that element of the project. I think it's fair to say that the 'talent' in a given field quite often does not want to be involved in anything other than the thing they are most passionate about. Again, totally understandable - if you want to get the best out of the individual - grant them the freedom to do what they are best at. _The 'influencers' (still hate that term), content creators - the non-deving evangelists of the game who do want to spread the word further, are left scratching around for anything to talk about coming out of the project in terms of tangible current or future developments. So, I see a lack of PR (actually prefer the term community engagement myself) in general, exacerbated at times when a bit of a push in the promotion stakes are a logical step, like a new release (that I'd consider to be heading into marketing territory, but as the game is free, I guess it's not technically marketing, really.) Because there is no money, profit margins, general business pressure related stuff involved, essentially a very simple strategy could be employed to address all of the above. To achieve it I think it would need; _at least three volunteers to form some kind of committee with the blessing of the devs _an acknowledgement from the devs that as things stand, good old Sun Tzu would probably put you firmly in the 'tactics without strategy' camp as far as 0AD community engagement goes. _the committee to draw up a proper strategy, say from now until whenever A25 is approximated to be released, detailing where things should be by that time, and the steps that would have to be realistically taken to get there (what Sun Tzu refers to as the tactics ) _the aims to be fairly obvious, really, but mostly to engage and further develop the community of 0AD players and enthusiasts as an ongoing process, to help raise the wider profile of the game and the project as a whole through positive communication, to take on the horrible PR jobs that no-one likes, like social media postings, etc, and to ensure that when A25 drops, it is communicated well, in a professionally co-ordinated way and garners as much warm, positive attention as possible. That does actually encompass quite a lot, but all the little jobs would essentially feed into the mains aims in order to achieve the overall objective. _the above happen with a commitment from the devs that while the day to day business of community engagement and promotion is being done well, in order to allow them to focus on their strengths, that there is at least a quarterly Q&A/interaction between them and the committee to establish what is happening with the ongoing developments, what features might be added/changed or removed in the next alpha - basically a chance to put the community's questions forward, to understand if things are or are not running to plan and understand why, but above all - to get a clear, consistent and factually accurate picture of how things are proceeding to be projected back out to the community. I guess this could be a proper video/audio chat, an instant message chat, or even just an exchange of a few emails, but something where there is an open dialogue. _and of course, any screenshots/sneak previews of features or fixes, or anything basically so cool you'd want to announce it, being shared on an ad-hoc basis. _at the end, when A25 is released, an evaluation as to whether the aims were met, whether the approach has benefited the devs, the game and the community. What could be done even better for a potential future strategy, maybe to A26? That is really just a 'back of an envelope' speculative proposal of one route that could be taken. It's a bit big on words, light on detail, but proposals are always like that!

Slight aside, here, but do think part of the problem is the connotations attached to the word 'Alpha?' I know we're getting into semantics here, but if the wider world don't understand the concept of an Alpha state, and it's become a stick to beat the project with, maybe going off-piste and labeling it something else might be an option?

@wraitii- it's very interesting and really positive to hear that from you. It does sound a bit weird as I only started playing 0AD not long after A23 was launched, so I guess I've not really known any different - but glad to know that you've perceived a growth and strengthening in the community. I think part of the issue is that there has been a really unfortunate disconnect between the dev side of things and the wider community. For instance, just in the course of this thread it's emerged just how much of a crunch/struggle there was to bring out A24 - I honestly can't imagine what it's been like since the launch with some of the criticism thats thrown your way after the launch after all that. If we can find a way to bridge that gap in the first instance, I think there will be a lot more understanding and cohesion. A list of content creators would help, for sure. And certainly a lot more engagement in the run up to the release of A25 would definitely be helpful. For example, just in case timescales slip, there would be better means to manage expectation, but mainly - a new release is an achievement and it should really be framed as such. A24 dropped without much fanfare, to a fair bit of confusion, and there was a higher degree of backlash that there really ought not to have been. A new release should, in my opinion, be a positive celebration of the hard work that's gone into getting the project to that milestone.

@wraitii - I totally hear what you're saying. No, I don't believe 0AD with it's limited resources can compete on an even level with a commercial juggernaut that is any iteration of AOE, and for sure, I can see that the dev cycle of A24 was cruel on it's devs. And as I said at the start of this thread, this ain't an A24 bashing. But 0AD does have a long pedigree, you only have to Google it to see it's not some lone indie dev working on a vanity project, it has made a relative impact. And 0AD has one huge asset, it's community. Devs do dev work and they don't get paid, but a far greater number of people play the game, and of those who are very enthusiatic about it write about the game and produce content relating to the game in order to push it further (I do however, refuse to use the term 'influencer!). They also don't get paid. But they'd really appreciate just a little more joined up communication between the two areas. I don't think @wowgetoffyourcellphone's suggestion of a PR/Strategy road map is out of the question. I don't think it would cost anything save the time of the volunteers who take it on (not unlike the devs). And if the people who do the dev work want no part of it, that does not mean it shouldn't happen. It appears there are a number of people who would be very interested in being involved. I'm going to leave this reply with a quote. I'm pretty sure currently one or the other definitely applies to 0AD's community engagement and communication in general, I'm just not sure which;

Evidently you've seen me playing Alpha24!!!!!!!!!!! I totally suck!

I totally second that. And 0AD is a strategy game after all, we should be masters at this!

That is my point - 'yesterday.' Not in the days, weeks, months leading up to the major event, i.e. the actual release of the new alpha. Not in any co-ordinated, strategic way. I get that you're doing something different with the game, and we all appreciate that, and how it does cater very specifically to a niche group, and certainly - it occupies a unique place. And I commend you massively for the achievement of making it such, that is something I would never want to diss you for. But I still feel there was a clear opportunity missed to give the game a massive amount of exposure without compromising any of your core principles. It was a freebie. I guess I'm suggesting that the game needs a better PR strategy, and that it needs to much more closely entwined with the development and releases of the game to produce a co-ordinated, slicker and much more professional approach. All games need new blood to survive, otherwise they stagnate and never truly reach their potential. And I see 0AD as having lots of untapped potential, but you've got to play the PR game a lot smarter than it's previously been done.

It's wierd, mate, 0AD used to be there, it vanished a few weeks back and I have no idea why!

Apologies, that makes no sense to me whatsoever. The belief that 0AD is somehow detached from the rest of the RTS playing world or the gaming world in general is completely absurd. You are vying for new players and new interest in the project just like any other 'game'. Yes, there are differences, and you are specifically targeting a small niche that will always gravitate to 0AD, but beyond that is a wider player base - they exist, they could potentially be happy to play 0AD, or at least give it a try. It's easy to speak to the converted, it takes a bit more effort to speak to the rest of the world.

Hello. First off, this isn't an Alpha 24 bashing, I think everyone has had their say on the actual aspects of the game they like or don't like, myself included. I think getting A24 out into world was an achievement in of itself, and the technical discussions will be ongoing, so no mention of that here, other than a final pat on the back from me to all who made it possible. What I'd like to talk about, somewhat after the event in terms of the A24 release, but perhaps relevant given the pending release of Age of Empires 4, and the recent announcements made about it. So, to frame this historically, in Sept last year, when it was becoming clear that A24 wouldn't be released in 2020 as originally hoped - there were a lot of negative criticisms being thrown around, and in among a thread on the subject I posted this; from Now, as we all know, the approach I suggest wasn't adopted, Alpha 24 got dropped, in my opinion, somewhat unceremoniously on the population on what felt like something of a whim, catching a lot of people out with the suddenness of it's appearance. PR was limited to a few hinting messages the week before advising that a release date would be given soon, followed by the actual release (no actual pre-announement), accompanied by a hastily cut together trailer on youtube and social media announcements that the game was out. And that was it, any sense of build up to the release was completely sacrificed, as was any ability to frame the context of the release or pre-empt any of the criticism (fair or otherwise) that followed about the game itself. In strategic PR and community engagement terms, I personally believe it was a massively missed opportunity. Not least because the game that 0AD effectively spawned forth from, is also about to release it's much delayed fourth iteration. It also was slated for 2020 release, but probably hit the buffers last due to the Covid situation. There has also been fan criticism about lack of information as to when it would finally appear, but lo and behold, this has dropped; Now, you can bet, with actual money at stake, this game will be hyped to the ultimate degree and that PR campaign will not be cheap, but come the release there will be a massive buzz around it. My point here is, A24 was ready first. By a considerable margin. And the approach I advocated could have been done on a zero budget. As it was, just by virtue of the reach 0AD has and the established player base, it did make a ripple when it was released, but it was in my opinion a fraction of what could have been achieved with just a small amount of strategic planning. The hype that was generated is rapidly dying down, and this will be completely drowned out now by the noise created by the release of it's bigger, commercial cousin. In short, an opportunity to really boost the fanbase of this great, free game that is available now and to get in before the release of it's major competitor, has been entirely lost. Now, I'm not saying this is the end of 0AD, I'm certain things will continue as they pretty much always have, but this was an opportunity to truly boost the community and player base in a really meaningful way. How many new players, new potential developers, new modders, new everything, could it have attracted to the community? And it was an obvious opportunity from as far back as Sept last year. In the following 8 or so months, all it would have required was a monthly bit of social media engagement, setting a date - even if it wasn't clear that A24 was going to be ready until the last minute, it wouldn't have hurt to have given it an extra fortnight for pre-promotional hype, and a pre-release trailer. The community would have done the rest and a proper sense of excitement could have been generated and spread far and wide. In short, to give a footballing analogy, it was an open goal, missed from two yards out! I know this will split opinion a bit, and yes, I know this is a volunteer project - we are all aware and thankful to those that actually make the game possible. In my quoted post I addressed turning what on the face of it looked like a disappointing delay into a triumphant release. It was the kind of situation that a small indie game in the 21st century, in the most competitive landscape there has ever been, could not afford to miss. I'd love to know why it had to go down the way it did?

This is an interesting one, mate, I'm intrigued by the wounded status of the troops. In play, does it change the game a lot? I'm assuming you have to be conscious of your units health a lot more otherwise you could send swathes of your army to a slaughter if they aren't in fighting condition.

Sunday fun

Hi @wowgetoffyourcellphone Still planning/scripting the feature covering Delenda est on my Youtube Channel - obviously, the timing of the arrival of A24 has thrown my schedule out completely, but just wanted to check if anything signifcant has changed as a result. So, I know Delenda Est is compatible with A24, and presumably the revised stats, extra phase and little nuances of it are identical, but has anything noticeably shifted? Playing A24 has a different feel in terms of the pace of the game, it's pathfinding, etc, does Delenda Est incorporate those subtle changes or basically ignore them and retain it's previous pace and feel? Balance is one of the key talking points in A24, have original 0AD civs retained their stats from A23, or have they been revised in accordance with A24, and if so, has this shifted the playing experience somewhat? Finally, would you say with A24 have the two projects moved closer together/become more aligned, or possibly deviated further?

New premiere - probably the last time you'll have to suffer me doing a lets play style video, back to proper commentary from next week

Brilliant, mate, I'll give that a go.