Sundiata

@wackyserious the Nuba merc shields look really cool! I still think the patterns could be a little less contrasty... Especially the dark brown on yellow and dark brown on beige stand out a little too much. I don't think they used paint, but rather wove the patterns directly in to the wicker, using lighter or darker coloured twigs, but not dyed.

I think there was a misunderstanding: I meant to say that the cloth around his legs, is supposed to be the same colour as the cloth going around the shoulder. The entire thing is one cloth wrapped around the body in a particular way. The "belt", cloth around his waist, on the other hand could maybe be a different colour, although even that could be part of the same cloth. Up to you. I think the Nubian sash on top of the tunic is a bit much though? The sash goes very well with that other elite spearman texture, but seems out of place on these ones. I hope I'm not too frustrating :/ Thoughts?

@LordGood, I like blob the lion Don't forget his lower legs, though, that poor amputee... A nice feature to have would be that semicircular stylised mane in the front, followed by that rectangular section covering his chest (kind of like a baby bib). Hieroglyphic inscriptions (specifically a double cartouche) go on the rectangular part. As for colour, I don't know, probably they were, but plain white/beige is fine for me.. It would be nice to see a mix of white and beige/brown plaster in the common houses as well. I'll play with the texture very soon.

Good thing you went with open roofs for siege-workshops then...

@LordGood You have done an amazing job with the Kushite architecture, and it's basically good to go. But if you have time, and since we're reaching new heights in historicity with this faction, I wanted to add my final list of suggestions for the buildings as well. I'll just discuss one building per post, and try to keep it as clear as possible. Sundiata's selected nitpickery, part 1, the CC: Please don't shoot me : ) Ok, so for the CC, I have no suggestions for the building itself, it's just perfect! One thing that bothers me is the way the steps are only at the front and don't go around the sides. Many of their important monuments were built on raised podiums (only a meter, maybe two high), and your steps represent that very well, if they go round the sides as well (not necessary for the back), and connect to that lonely little wall segment. Of all the buildings in the set, the CC is the best candidate for a finishing with white lime-plaster. Other buildings could also have white plaster, but the CC needs it in my opinion. Houses and other buildings covered with white lime-plaster are a sign of wealth. Also, most of the ruins of the palaces clearly indicate them being plastered white (and sometimes even coloured brightly). Lastly, the lion-statues . Lion statues are a lot more common than I originally realised (like really common), and lined the front of palaces, lion temples and even some townhouses had smaller versions lining their facades or flanking an entrance. A seated (upright) lion statue is a prop that should be used for the CC, lion temple, and even the harbour would look fantastic with a pair of them facing the water on either side of the structure. (I'm surprised that these people haven't been dubbed "The Lion Kingdom"...) So: Steps should go around the sides as well white plaster finish A row of Lion statue for the facade Please forgive my butchering of your model... Here's an amateuristic mock-up (colours all messed up, but you get the picture..): That's an actual lion statue from Naqa, if you're wondering My favourite lion statue from Jebel Barkal (the palaces there had many lion statues lining their outsides): I hope this public domain white plaster texture will come in handy:

@stanislas69, The scabbard is specifically for the Meroitic swordsmen, and can hang diagonally across their back (ideally), or hang at their waist (usually still suspended from a strap hanging accross the shoulder), so this might need a texture update for this unit as well (the strap). About the horse-crown, we can either: 1) give it to the cavalry hero only 2) Give the one with the black base to the royal cavalry (upgraded from noble cavalry who don't get it), and give the one with the golden base to the cavalry hero I'd prefer option 2, but this depends on wether we go with "champion cavalry upgrade" (Noble Cavalry becomes Royal Cavalry after tech-research), and @Alexandermb using the gold texture base for the hero variation. The new spear should be used by the champion cavalry (maybe noble cav gets it, and royal cav gets a longer lance). alternatively a scaled down version could be used as javelins by higher tier javelin cavalry. Yes, it's all good I don't think Nuba units even need to rank up, that's how basic they can be. Of course that's a little boring, so you could: use plane shields for tier 1 use simple variations for tier 2 use complicated variations for tier 3 (and add a single simple bead-necklace) @wowgetoffyourcellphone I think we need another variation for the face painting: Herodotus wrote the often quoted line: "When they went into battle they painted half their bodies with gypsum and the other half with vermilion" Which has an eery resemblance to some designs still popular up until recent times among the Nuba: Apparently a red hairdo with crest of short white feathers is a thing. More complicated geometric face paint designs:

So I should make some? Can I get a "list" of the colours to compare?

@wackyserious Who needs sleep anyway... Some more cow hide textures:

@wackyserious: Now it's time for me to sleep

@stanislas69, it's actually not as horrible as I remember... I thought it was the one on the left, but it's the one on the right: Either way: ...

That's soooo pretty.... All Seleucid fans salute you! Really, thank you! @LordGood & @stanislas69, could you review this and commit it for the Seleucid Cataphract? Then you can delete the old horse-crest and we'll never (ever) need to mention that thing again...

@wackyserious, 2 very simple variations, and 2 more complicated ones, all based on the Azande pics. I suggest playing with the contrast of the patterns, making some faded, and others just like the one you shared. Also, how do I save it in 32bpp PNG format?

@Alexandermb The golden semi-circle has wiggle space, so don't feel shy if a piece get's cut off. Also feel free to cut the sides of the feather crown (straight line) in such a way that each side sits on the same level, like so: Maybe a fuller crown is easier to work with?

@wackyserious

Oh, my, fantastic!! They look really cool! If you feel compelled (I know you like shield variety), you could add some faint geometric designs like the Azande examples. If you want I can do it as well if you provide me the shield texture.

@Alexandermb I just went to grab a bite to eat and came back to this... Nice! My suggestion is, when viewing from the front, to let the sides of the crown be straight instead of curvy (My own fault for making the texture like that), and bring the whole crown down a bit: Other than that, no suggestions. It looks... Fabulous! Thank you! The old horse-crowns were really bugging me...

@Alexandermb, with a day's delay :/ Here's the new Seleucid horse-crown texture I made: I imagine it something like this: So the lower part of the mesh of the shaffron will bend slightly inwards, while the top part of the shaffron bends inward to almost form a semicircle. Then you fit the feather crown on top of that semicircular part, at an angle of about 45° (ore more). When the horse is in rest, the crown should almost stand upright at a 90° angle The whole piece should fit snuggly on top of the horse's head, just in front of the ears, with minimal clipping Used images in the public domain: shaffron https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Shaffron_(Horse's_Head_Defense)_with_arms_of_the_Freyberg_family_MET_DP108811.jpg fan http://www.mfa.org/collections/object/download/109623

Oooh...! Nice texture!!! Ok, this comes to mind: could you use this texture for the back of the lower tier Nubian spearmen (front should stay cowhide), then @Nescio can sleep soundly Then make another shield-mesh, something in-between oval and rectangular, a little smaller than this thyreos sized one, with the wicker texture and give those shields to the Nuba javelinists:

@wackyserious I like them! Wouldn't it look better if the diagonal "sash" has the same colour as the "loincloth"? It's supposed to represent one cloth, I think.

Hahahaha, that would be such an honour, lol! Actually I do have decent equipment, I just haven't had the time to play around with it in the past year... But I'd need some pretty clear instructions on what you need.

The Kingdom of Kush: names and terminology: A complete list of Napatan words for every structure and unit @elexis, @stanislas69, @wowgetoffyourcellphone, @Hannibal_Barca The Meroitic language remains barely understood, but luckily for us, the Egyptian dialect, known as Napatan was used widely until the 3d century BC, and is well understood. Fontes Historiae Nubiorum is an extensive collection of translations of Kushite texts, as well as a discussion of Greek and Latin texts mentioning Kush. The fourth volume contains a selected list of (Napatan) Egyptian words used in the various texts, and provides us with all the names and terminology we need. I made a selection of words potentially relevant to 0AD, suggestions are welcome (try to to go through the original texts in the first 2 volumes to understand the context within which these words are used). One hiccup is that it's all written in phonetics, and I have no easy way of writing phonetics (or copy-pasting from the scanned source) at the moment. So it's just bare bone letters, without the extra symbols, making proper pronunciation very difficult. The fact that vowels were largely ignored by Kushites makes pronunciation even more difficult. If somebody feels compelled to redo this list with all the correct phonetic values, I'd be eternally grateful. A few examples on how some of these words are popularly pronounced today: T3 sti : Ta Seti (land of the bow) Nhsyw: Nehesi (nubians) Mdw-Ntr: Medu Neter (god's words, hieroglyphs) Pdty : Pitati (archers) Npt : Napata There are a few Meroitic titles included, and a single semitic loanword for camel, used in the ancient Egyptian language. I tried my best to use the most appropriate words and combination of words available, but I'm not a linguist, and mistakes are very possible. The following list contains the generic name, followed by the indigenous one, followed by the literal translation for every term: Structures: Barracks : pr-ms’yw (house of soldiers) Blacksmith : hmw h’y n r3-‘ (weapon smith) Civil Centre : Pr-nsw (palace, royal residence) Corral : ihy (stall) Defense Tower : tsmt ‘3 (great battlement) Dock : Mryt (harbour) Farmstead : snwt (granary) Field : sht (field, countryside) Fortress : Htm (fortress, stronghold) House : Pr (house) Market : Pr-sbt (house of exchange) Outpost : trtr (counterwork) Pyramid large : mr ‘3 (great pyramid) Pyramid small : mr (pyramid) Sentry Tower : tsmt (battlement) Storehouse : wd3t (storehouse) Temple Amun : Pr-‘Imn (house of Amun) Temple Apedemak: Pr-‘Iprmk (house of Apedemak) Wall Gate : ’ryt (gate, door) Wall : sbty (wall, fortress, stronghold) Wall Tower : s3wt (battlement, wall) Wonder : Mnw nht (mighty monument) Units: Camel javelinist : nhw Bulahau gml (auxiliary Blemmye camel) Catafalque: Wtn n ‘Ist (barque of Isis) Cavalry javelinist : iry hr ssmwt (companion on horseback) Cavalry Spearman : Htr (cavalry) Champion Cavalry : Htr Ms’ n mh-ib (elite cavalry) Champion Elephant : Abore ‘h3 (war elephant) Champion Infantry Archer : Hry pdty (captain of archers) Champion Infantry Amun : rs ‘Imn (guardian of Amun) Champion Infantry Apedemak : rs ‘Iprmk (guardian of Apedemak) Hero Amanirenas : Amnirense qore li kdwe li (Amanirenas, qore and kandake) Hero Arakamani : Qore ‘Irk.‘Imn (King Arakamani) Hero Nastasen : Nist3sne hwy pdt psdt (Nastasen, he who smites the nine bows) Infantry Archer : pdty Nhsyw (Nubian archer) Infantry Clubman : nhw noba (nuba auxiliary warrior) Infantry Merc Javelinist : nhw ‘h3w noba (nuba auxiliary missile warrior) Inantry Pikeman : si3wrd (mutilators) Infantry Spearman : iry-rdwy Nhsyw (Nubian footman) Infantry Swordsman : knw hps (khopesh soldier) Siege Tower : iwn n ms (movable tower/siege tower, also translated as battering-ram) Ship bireme : shry (ship) Ship fishing : Wh’-rmw (fisherman) Ship merchant : D3y sbt (river-boat of exange) Ship trireme : shry ‘3 (great ship) Female Citizen : shmt (woman) Support Healer : w’b nsw (royal priest) Support Trader : rmt sbt (man of exchange) Hero Harsiotef : Harsiotef Kanakht Khaemnepet (Harsiotef the Mighty Bull appears in Napata) (I'll bring this up tomorrow) For technologies, take a look at the first section in selected Egyptian words in the spoiler: "overseers". I think this is what should make the Amun temple so special... e.g.: Imry-r snwt : overseer of a granary (+...% farming rate) Imy-r w’bw : overseer of Waab-priests (healers ...% healing rate) Imy-r htm : overseer of a fortress (increase armour level of fortress by ... levels) Imy-r kt : overseer of works (+ ...% general gathering rate) ... "Imy-r..." could be used in combination with other words to make a satisfactory selection of technologies, such as "Imy-r sd" (overseer of taxation): +...% income from international trade. There's a potential gold mine of ideas in the following list of words. Selected Napatan Egyptian words recorded in Kush:

Ah... To be technical, they could be any of four types: plain hide with a stick running down the central spine wicker, overspun with hide wood frame with possible ribs overspun with hide "solid wood", like the thyreos, overpun with hide

And these ones are flat as well: Also clearly made up of vertical segments, just the same as our Napatan temple guard (which means ours is perfect ), except for the square golden shield decoration with double cartouche... But that's clearly a royal thing... So, the answer is yes Maybe you should take another look at the Kushite horse trappings... And Kushite metalworking in general... They had no limits lol These are Kushite plume-holders. Yes, plume-holders... For horses... Yes, horses... It was fixed on top of their head... Yes, their heads.... As you can see, they're both bronze (which is in fact a metal ) Now go back and take a look at that beautiful New Kingdom Egyptian chariot scene from Nubia (that we've shared about 83 times in this thread by now ): Notice the large golden lions on the horse crown? So why wouldn't they add some thin metal rods for stability in the feathers? I'd do it. Makes your feathers look fabulous, like all the time... So you also see that my interpretation of the Kushite horse crown was actually a rather modest one

0 D.C.

Yeah, my thoughts. I don't think trees of the size necessary to create a solid wood shield of that size even exist in Northern/central Sudan. I don't think solid wood was used by many people anywhere (it's super-heavy, and easily splits after a while). The shields are good as they are now. I always assumed dyed ostrich feathers. I suspect they might have been attached to small metal rods to keep them straight like that (pure conjecture here) Yup. Solid coloured cattle definitely existed though, the patchy ones are just a lot more common (in Kush at least). There are also solid black shields and other types, but as I said, I think those are painted hides. There's also this interesting type .From the Theban tomb of the viceroy of Kush. It's very easy to gloss over the fact that the two shields on the right actually have elaborate designs on them. I tried to bump the contrast to make it a little more visible. Both shields have a winged solar disks lining the circular top part of the shield. I can't make out the rest of the left shield, but the right shield clearly depicts a king, standing in profile with legs spread wide apart, and one arm raised up high, holding a spear that points downwards, diagonally across the shield, probably impaling some enemies. A classic execution scene. Then there's these babies from Tutankhamun's tomb...