Sundiata
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Everything posted by Sundiata
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@stanislas69 Thank youuuu! Sorry for our nitpicking Mmmmm, yeeesh Very good. Tier 2 could also get that hypothetical simple necklace. I'll try to come up with something, I came up with something: Necklace only: Good? Wowie... I love it! Luuuve it! I'm running out of compliments guys... It's for the hero Nastasen and champion cavalry. Maybe champion cavalry could get a silver/steel looking variant instead?
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Yes please
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Sorry but this is too far... When you hold an axe like that you have maximum strength in your swing, but minimal accuracy. There's a trade off! The previous position was perfect! Perfect balance between strength and accuracy.
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We need a simple single string bead necklace in addition of the royal beaded necklace we have now. Something like this? kush_infantry archer & Kush_infantry_spearman (Nubian Units): tier 1: Bare chest, nothing special. tier 2: bare chest, Nubian sash, bronze ankle-bands, ostrich feather in hair (maybe only for archers) tier 3: try using the tunic wowgetoffyourcellphone created for the Blemmye camel rider, Nubian sash, simple necklace, bronze ankle-bands, 2 or three ostrich feathers (maybe only for archers) Kush_infantry_swordsman: tier 1: linen corselet tier 2: linen corselet or that other cloth armour variant, (medium) necklace tier 3: quilted cotton vest, (medium) necklace, bronze ankle-bands cotton skullcap Kush_infantry_pikeman: check: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22765-kushites-units-unit-textures-and-unit-props/&do=findComment&comment=347005 tier 1: bare chest tier 2: linen corselet and other cloth armour tier 3: quilted cotton armour, almost ankle length loincloth, bronze armbands, cotton skullcap Feel free to play around with it, to achieve the most authentic feeling combination of things. Lower tier never has armour (except swordsmen because they're cool). Try avoiding the royal necklaces. Good for champions, not so good for regulars.
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@stanislas69 Both weapons look perfect to me. Maybe just a little more shine for the Khopesh blade
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Dude, I'm not going to refocus my research on the cultural changes in the periphery of Kush over the past 2000 years. That's a thesis right there... Certain things are obvious. They were tall. Perhaps the tallest people in the ancient world. They were known for it then. They are known for it today.. Why do you want to make everything smaller??? lol... The Axe-head depicted in the relief literally directly underneath the image you're referring to is easily 40cm..! The Khopesh could indeed be smaller. Axe is perfect as is. That spear/lance alexander made Ideed, like Wow said, he can have the cobra on the skullcap. He can even have 2 cobras (seriously). For now he should have the round rhino-hide shield, but ideally, there would be some bronze finishing on the shield (shieldboss and decorated circular cutout on the edge)
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Why do you think written history (or the lack thereof) proves anything? I rely mostly on the archaeological record. Written history is a nice extra, but it becomes most valuable when it's backed by something tangible. The written history describing the ancestors of Dinka and related populations corroborate the archaeological record. No major changes for thousands of years... They're a stone-age Neolithic holdover, to be blunt, but they are ethnically closely related to the much more advanced Meroites, and recruited/incorporated in significant numbers. Currently they are using Ptolemaic Kingdom placeholders, one Hannibal's elephant and a Royal Agema Cavalry Sorry, I can't keep up Nastasen: horse Arakamani: elephant Amanirenas: chariot (just kidding , (not really), or infantry
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Absolutely not, it's even more historical like that...
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@stanislas69 If it's not too much effort, Axe and Khopesh could both be sclaled down a little (but I don't think it should be too much)
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You're right, I just love teasing you These are Africans... Some are pygmies, some are giants. In Sudan, they've been tall since the dawn of history. There were Neolithic Saharan populations that easily reached 1.90m... The Dinka that were measured in the study didn't experience significant cultural changes, and no dietary changes for thousands of years... They are the same people. Europeans in general experienced dramatic environmental, dietary, cultural and ethnic changes through the same period which account for the changes in height. Hmmm, then I won't oppose a (small) length-reduction. Just a little though
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Nice... Thank you @stanislas69, @wackyserious that Kushite spear goes with champion cavalry.
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Please, feel free to play around with skin tones! I'd love to see different tones for the same units. We're just talking generalities here.
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@wackyserious [Disclaimer], these are very generalist approximations. In reality there is strong overlap between the different groups: Nubian: in this context purely geographic, people from the area between the 1st cataract to the 4th cataract. Mixed with Egyptians. Medium skin Nuba: tribal semi-nomads in the Western desert, sedentary population in Kordofan and Nuba mountains to the South and West of the Kushite heartlands. Dark skin Meroitic: people from the area's around Meroë, and the surrounding Butana steppe. From 4th cataract to the area's beyond the 6th cataract. Dark skin Blemmye: Beja people, nomadic Eastern desert dwellers, camel riders "light" skin, but still pretty dark So: Kush_camel_javelinist "light" skin Kush_cavalry_javelinist Medium skin Kush_cavalry_spearman Medium skin Kush_champion cavalry Dark skin Kush_champion_elephant Dark skin Kush_champion_infantry Who is this guy? Kush_champion_infantry_Amun Medium skin Kush_champion_infantry_apedemak Dark skin Kush_hero_amanirenas Dark skin Kush_hero_arakamani Dark skin Kush_hero_nastasen Medium skin kush_infantry archer Medium skin Kush_infantry_clubman Dark skin Kush_infantry_merc_javelinist Dark skin Kush_infantry_pikeman Dark skin Kush_infantry_spearman Medium skin Kush_infantry_swordsman Dark skin Kush_support_female_citizen all skintones Kush_support_healer Medium skin @Nescio That's not an epsilon axe (which is kind of archaic for this period), it's a Meroitic period Kushite axe (actually Mauryan...) Kushite not holding an axe at the end Khopesh comes in different sizes. Ours is indeed rather large. I'm not too bothered by it though Dinka are sometimes noted for their height. With the Tutsi of Rwanda, they are believed to be the tallest people in Africa. Roberts and Bainbridge reported the average height of 182.6 cm (5 ft 11.9 in) in a sample of 52 Dinka Ageir and 181.3 cm (5 ft 11.4 in) in 227 Dinka Ruweng measured in 1953–1954 -wikipedia- South Sudanese men can easily surpass 2 meters! "The Ethiopians to whom Cambyses sent these gifts are reputed to be the tallest and most beautiful of all peoples.” -Herodotus-
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@wackyserious I'll just quote @wowgetoffyourcellphone, because he's spot on! He understands the macro-ethnic composition of Kush... So Of the 3 skin colors in my PSDs I was going: Dark: Meroitic, Nuba Medium: Nubian Light: Blemmye/Beja Mind you, "Light" here is still way darker than the other skin colors in the game. I assumed the Swordsmen would be Meroitic, along with pikemen, so I made those dark. The infantry spearmen are specifically Nubian as are the archers, so I made those medium. Then there are other units which are specific ethnicities, which are basically already right there in their unit names, such as Blemmye Camelry, light, and Nuba Hunter, dark with lots of ash/paint. Female citizens I created _light, _medium, and _dark variations since they weren't a specific ethnicity.
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[I guess you'll fix the loincloth though? I know, silly question... And what's up with the saturation on his armbands] Yes it will A suggestion though, for this particular version: Based on the Egyptian style from which the Kushite scale evolved: Gorgeous!!! BUT, please delete all the zebra hides from anything Kush-related.
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@Alexandermb Oooh, thanks! I think it's ok like that, but of course I have to add my traditional nitpickery: The largest examples of these spearheads are the size of small short-swords, having an almost oriental feel. I'd suggest increasing the size of the spear head a little bit (but keep the same length for the shaft). The Kushite Royal cavalry will be eternally grateful for that extra inch or two of reach
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Wow...
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@stanislas69 Nice... Real nice... Remember that Apedemak's temple guards get the scale corselet. Was that lion head an existing prop? @LordGood The axe is actually the correct type. Epsilon axe is very archaic by this time, although I agree bronze axe and bronze scale together would look awesome! Style vs historicity, I have no strong feeling about either in this case. Epsilon axe looks better... Current axe is more historical... What to do? [edit] Kushites were still using bronze axes a lot during our timeframe, so perhaps the current axe could get a bronze re-tuxture to match his bronze scales? Interesting solution, or nah?
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@Alexandermb Nice spears... I have a request These post-Meroitic spears from el Hobagi would go well with a Kushite Hero horseman
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@wackyserious Tier 1 should ideally only have small beaded necklaces (single string of modest beads, can have colours, sorry, but ideally we need a smaller variant of beaded necklace :/ ). Tier 2 can have those larger painted beads and bronze bands for the legs Tier 3 can have whatever combination of things your heart desires except, I think the "Strap/sash with ethnic patterns", let's call it "the Nubian sash", should only be used for Nubian units, and perhaps Nuba units, but not the Napatan and Meroitic ones. It's kind of archaic, so it fits well with the more basic units. so, Nubian Sash for tier 2 & 3 of: kush_infantry_archer kush_infantry_spearman kush_infantry_clubman kush_infantry_merc
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Definitely not, sorry if I was unclear, I was purely talking about the attire. Indeed small round shield is perfect for tier 1 and 2, I think. Then tier 3 get's the Egyptian style cowhide shield stanislass made (same one as the Apedemak's temple guard). Just remember it's attached to the shoulder... Meroitic Pikeman: tier 1: medium length loincloth, bare torso, small round shield tier 2: medium length loincloth, cloth armour for torso, small round shield (or Egyptian style cow-hide shield) tier 3: ankle-lenght loincloth/robe, quilted cotton vest, Egyptian style cow-hide shield, quilted cotton skullcap The small round shield could be a scaled down version of the current Ptolemaic placeholders used. Perhaps a simpler, different shield texture is in order?
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I like this...
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Some primary references for the long robes for traders Highest tier Meroitic Pikeman: I believe we can do something nice for the pikemen. A few of the reliefs or graffito show a pikeman with a long robes, kind of like the Persian and Egyptian spearmen. Why not give the highest tier pikemen a long white loincloth for the lower body, stretching to the ankles, and a short sleeved (or no sleeves) quilted cotton vest for the torso, quilted cotton skullcap, Egyptian style cowhide shield attached to the shoulder. Basically just like this Egyptian marine in Xerxes army, but Kushified [disregard his shield]: The Kushite equivalent from Musawwarat: Not too shabby... Though I think temple-guards should have scale armour from the get-go.
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@wackyserious Very cool! I'm assuming Apedemak's faithful? But remember that the prop for his head needs to be a lion's head and not a wolf's head. The shape of the axe is surprisingly appropriate. It looks like a Meroitic period axe. Maybe it's a little too large for a single handed axe though. Maybe you could show us how he looks with the Egyptian style cow-hide shield? Also, I know this is just detail-nitpicking, but sandals for champion units would be perfect. Kushite Trader: And before I forget, Kushite trader still needs to be done. Last time I checked they were using the priest as a placeholder. I suggest that ideally, the trader should wear a long simple white-ish garment, like the Muslim thobe (thawb). I always thought they were a later Arab influence, but the reliefs often show men wearing these long robes, and it's the number 1 traditional outfit for men in Sudan today.. Just don't give them that muslim cap Kushite trader ideas:
