ValihrAnt

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I have some questions. How does this work? From what I understand you want to do 4 separate tournaments? And I don't quite get the two winners part for four tournaments. I'm guessing you want a separate league for the winners of those tournaments? Does the ban affect both players or only the opponent? Of course I would prefer hidden pick over drafting, but limitations remain limitations. Lastly will @badosu's balanced maps mod be used in the tournament? It's a good improvement over the current unfair mapgen and it adds new competitive maps.

A fully mirrored map will mean that a player will be capable of knowing exactly what resources, and where, the enemy has. So for an early rush I'll know exactly where all the berry spots are, where the woodlines are and such. It severely reduces importance of scouting. Other than that not too many downsides I can think of right now.

That's the crashed one.

Kushites also train champions in their temple, but the temples still cost 300 stone. Though, I suppose it is 1 champion vs 2 champions.

Updated the mod to most likely the last version. VERSION 6.0 CHANGES Actually changed archer damage to 6.7P from 6.8P Fixed elephant archer speed, as I originally didn't realise they had cav archers as parent template. Carthaginian temple cost from 400S to 300S Kushite small pyramid cost reduced from 300F 300S to 300S The Carthaginian temple is the only temple not to have a resource cost of 300, I have changed it to fit with the rest after some requests. Is the higher cost intended or is it an oversight that should also be fixed for a24? Additionally I have changed the small pyramid cost to just 300 stone from 300 food and 300 stone. Should make them a bit more accessible and hopefully more used.

Thank you for pointing it out. Looks like I'll have to experiment with the numbers more to see what works best.

New version released, available on the first post. Changes in this version: Reverted all champion changes, due to extra metal mine spawns being entirely random. This means that very often 1 team will have a considerable advantage, due to having access to extra metal. I've even played multiple matches just in this balancing mod where one team had only 1 or no extra metal mines at all, while the other team had safe access to all other metal spawns. Also removed the champion tech unlock change. Additionally I've lowered archer damage by 0.1P from 6.8 to 6.7, changed around War elephant cost to have higher food than metal cost and also slightly lowered catapult aoe damage. Version 5.0 changes Champion cost and unlock tech back to old cost Citizen archers: 6.8P to 6.7P War elephants: 225F and 225M to 300F and 200M Catapults: Splash damage radius: 10m to 7m

I have no problems with this being included into base game. As for giving ideas for any other functions, I won't be able to help.

New mod version uploaded and is available from the first post. Currently champs aren't strong enough for that to be required. Would make them obsolete in the current balance, but maybe in some future rebalancing. I suppose it wouldn't be bad to do so and it is already done for some units (swordsmen in vanilla, swords and all champion infantry types in my mod). Additionally why change something that works perfectly fine considering that the changes will require much more testing and one of my goals is to keep the changes as uncomplicated as possible. I have increased cost of champs slightly in the newest version. 4 armor levels is 34% armor, I'm not exactly sure how that would work out to 52% extra hp but maybe I'm missing something. Additionally armor levels don't scale linearly. 4 armor is 34%, level 5 is 41%, level 6 is 47%, 7 is 52% and so on. Normal spear cav have 4 base pierce armor and champ spear cav have 8 pierce armor, that is 34% vs 57% pierce armor. With armor upgrades those percentage differences become smaller. For the champions having two times more health, it is half true. Champions have 2x more health of phase 1 units, but phase 2 gives a 20% hp bonus to just citizen soldiers and phase 3 gives a 10% hp bonus on top of the phase 2 hp value. So the difference becomes quite a bit smaller. There are a few more things disadvantages, those are that champions give more loot and experience, and that they can't work or build. So champs don't work out to be 6x better in the end. 0ADs citizen soldier utility makes things on the balancing department a lot more difficult.

Through these days I've played and spectated a lot of matches with the mod. And so far I'm satisfied with the citizen soldier and technology changes and I haven't received complaints about them either. What I have received complaints about, though, are the champion changes where the feedback was very split. Some people were happy about them and some not so much. In my experience champion infantry melee units are in a good spot. It isn't a rush to get to them and then losing is impossible, they can be dealt with by players utilizing fully citizen soldier armies, but that's not so much the case for ranged infantry or cavalry, which currently seem a bit too strong. Ranged infantry are generally a fair distance away from the frontline and that way suffer much fewer casualties meaning they are more cost efficient, due to which I think it would be warranted for them to have a higher cost. Cavalry champ cost in general is too low now I think, so that's something I'll change for the next version. I would also really like to know the opinions of the players on this since I generally only know the stance and not the reasoning behind it.

The 4 games of playtesting I've done so far. Two 1v1 games and one 4v4, and one 3v3. Should give a decent impression to how the balance plays out. BalanceTestMod Replays.zip

Yes, the only mod called BalanceTestMod

The mod has now been updated. I initially stopped working on the mod after the revitalization on completing borg's balance mod, but as all activity on it has died down I'm back to finish up this mod. VERSION 3.0 CHANGES Technologies: Loom: cost from 150F to 200F Advanced Siege: 600W, 300M to 700W, 300M Citizen cavalry: Cavalry archers: Move speed from 17.5(same as javelin cavalry) to 15.4 and run speed from 29.2 to 25.7 Champions: Archer Cav: Move speed from 20.3 to 17.8 and run speed from 33.8 to 29.7 Crush based champion metal cost increased by 30M: Mauryan Yoddhas from 90F, 75W, 30M to 90F, 75W, 60M Iberian Fire Cav from 150F, 90W, 45M to 150F, 90W, 75M Mod can be downloaded from the initial thread.

@borg- are you still working on the balance mod and if so, have you got any estimates as to when a playtestable version will be available?

I'll list my concerns with some of the changes. This pretty much kills rushing. Being able to train infantry from the CC while cavalry can only be trained from stables or barracks means that you'll be far too behind in numbers to ever do anything and that's without counting in cav being unable to hunt now. All cavalry rushes rely on the initial cavalry paying for the next ones through hunting, so not only will players be unable to afford a cavalry rush, they'll need a military building on top of everything. So in my opinion D2498 is terrible, but D896 can still be fine if the ability to train infantry from the CC is removed too like in @borg-'s mod. I understand it's meant to even out unit overall gathering efficiency, but the side effects aren't even nearly worth it imo. Unit move speed is balanced according to their attack range for ranged units and armor for melee units. So archers are slower than slingers, who are slower than skirmishers (Same for cavalry) and pikemen are slower than spearmen, who are slower than swordsmen. So now we have the problem of archers being just as quick as skirmishers, but having 3 times more range and if you've ever dealt with camel archers you'll know that's a big design flaw. Even now it's a pain to chase down slingers or archers with skirmishers if they're controlled by someone with good micro. So now I can rush someone with just archers and whatever they do they'll fall behind. If they try to chase me with their skirmishers/slingers I will never be caught and can micro down their units. If they go for cavalry they'll need to invest loads of food until they have enough cav to scare me back to my base and while they're massing those cavalry they need to somehow survive. If my enemy goes for towers he will need a minimum of 2 and even then there's no guarantee I won't be able to hit his woodline due to how similar archer attack range is with tower range. In the case of a well towered woodline I still outrange the CC with my archers so I can easily harass food. Basically it is a camel archer rush but with infantry archers instead of cavalry archers. Similar thing with infantry. The only thing which kept pikemen from being completely OP was their turtle move speed. Now they're basically a bullet sponge capable of outrunning Usain Bolt if they took off their chestpiece. The other changes seem fine. I'll just have to really see the effects of fortress territory root to say what I think of it.

Count me in this week too

In my opinion graphics are fine. The only problem could be differentiating units. Gameplay wise I'm sure it will be top tier. What I'm most worried about is optimisation and the lobby system. Both of these things Aoe2:DE has problems with. Many players are avoiding TGs due to lag and the lobby system is mediocre at best. Hopefully the new engine will help in optimising the game and maybe the pathfinder will be better too. For the lobby system player profiles, PMs, easily spectatable and downloadable matches are a must imo.

Can you outline what parts you're not planning to implement so everyone is on the same page?

It's great to see that @borg- has got the motivation to go through with implementing the mod and that a lot of people are willing to help. Yes, a 1v1 tournament would be great to get people to play the mod. I don't think it going on at the same time as the SPG 1v1 league is a problem, since it is a quick weekend event.

I'm not doing this all alone. I have mostly been cooperating with Feld as borg- is generally harder for me to reach, but both of them have given me their opinions on things, helped test and offered suggestions on how to improve the changes.

This is a balance mod meant for testing changes before creating patches for them on trac. The changes are purposefully small and not drastic, and I don't plan to fix all of the balance issues as I don't have too much time available and additionally it makes it harder to get into the game. Additionally I'm also limited by other factors, such as map generation. Currently mines are spawned entirely randomly, which means that in team games one team will occasionally enjoy a huge metal advantage, while the other team has no extra metal mines or has to share 1 mine between all of them. This means that if champions are balanced in such a way that they are cost efficient vs citizen soldiers then we will much more frequently have the winning side decided on map generation. CURRENT CHANGES Team bonuses: Iber: 20% to 10% Rome: 20% to 10% Kush: 20% to 10% Technologies: Loom: 50% to 100% and cost from 150F to 200F Armor plating: 500W, 250M to 300W, 150M Advanced Siege: 1000W, 500M to 700W, 300M Citizen soldiers: Slingers: 9.5P, 1C and 3.0 accuracy to 9.2P, 0.9C and 3.5 accuracy(right between skirms and archers). Archers: 6P to 6.7P. Citizen cavalry: Cavalry archers: Move speed from 17.5(same as javelin cavalry) to 16.0 and run speed from 29.2 to 26.6 Elephants: War Elephant: 250F, 250M to 300F, 200M Elephant Archer: 200F, 80W, 20M to 150F, 75W Champions: Archer Cav: Move speed from 20.3 to 18.4 and run speed from 33.8 to 30.7 Catapults: Splash damage radius: 10m to 7m Buildings: Carthaginian temple: 400S to 300S Kushite small pyramid: 300F, 300S to 300S VERSION 6.0 CHANGES Actually changed archer damage to 6.7P from 6.8P Fixed elephant archer speed, as I originally didn't realise they had cav archers as parent template. Carthaginian temple cost from 400S to 300S Kushite small pyramid cost reduced from 300F 300S to 300S BalanceTestModV6.zip

All Vali games. Played with fgod and autociv. spg week2 valihrant perspective.zip spg week2 val no mods.zip

ill join too

On high settings all of these maps look very good and this being a 1v1 event I doubt anyone will have trouble running the game at those settings. But I doubt anyone would be against graphical improvements if it doesn't affect performance.