Nescio
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Posts
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Posts posted by Nescio
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13 hours ago, Alexandermb said:
Here you go:
- Bos taurus taurus (European cattle)
- Bos taurus africanus (Sanga cattle)
- Bos taurus indicus (Zebu)
The calf actor is as large as the adult cow, perhaps you could have a look at it? Other than that, great, hopefully it'll be included in A24!
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5 hours ago, (-_-) said:
See the first iteration of the patch. I recall doing it like this.
Then why was it changed?
2 hours ago, stanislas69 said:I just didn't want to have two timers.
Why not? Different attack types also work at different intervals. I'd say give maximum flexibility.
2 hours ago, stanislas69 said:Also trees are not alive.
One might as well say they are always alive and cannot be dead; I suppose it depends on how one interpretes <KillBeforeGather>false</KillBeforeGather>.
Anyway, I think this feature would be useful not only for ordinary meat animals, but also for fish and for fruit trees and bushes.
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1 hour ago, stanislas69 said:
But currently
Seems unnecessarily complicated. How about the following?
<ResourceSupply> <KillBeforeGather>false</KillBeforeGather> <Amount>200</Amount> <Max>300</Max> <Type>food.fruit</Type> <MaxGatherers>8</MaxGatherers> <Growth> <Interval>1000</Interval> <Rate>1.0</Rate> </Growth> <Decay> <Interval>1000</Interval> <Rate>0.5</Rate> </Decay> </ResourceSupply>
With growth active when the entity (animal, tree, something else) is “alive” and decay when it's “dead”; both rates can be negative.
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1 hour ago, stanislas69 said:
Basically, fauna starts at 0 food, gradually fattens to max when alive, and decays back to 0 after it's killed? Yes, that's something I like to see, not just in mods, but in 0 A.D.'s default distribution, for all fauna.
While at it, could you also implement the following? Right now resource suppliers always start at the max by default; so each metal mine contains exactly 5000. Instead, I think the game would be far more interesting if such entities would simply be spawned with a random amount between max and min (e.g. a sheep starts with between 10 and 100 food, a stone quarry with between 3000 and 6000 stone).
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0abc updated:
- centres can only train one unit, a basic melee infantry
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soldiers cost silver instead of metal and wood:
- dogs: 30 food, 0 silver
- infantry: 30 food, 30 silver
- camelry: 75 food, 50 silver
- cavalry: 90 food, 60 silver
- bigae: 180 food, 120 silver
- quadrigae: 300 food, 180 silver
- elephantry: 300 food, 300 silver
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AI difficulty levels no longer have resource stockpiling bonus or penalty; instead, they get a multiplier on building, training, and research times:
- Very Hard: 50%
- Hard: 71%
- Medium: 100%
- Easy: 141%
- Very Easy: 200%
- Sandbox: 300%
- A few other corrections
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32 minutes ago, Sundiata said:
To clarify myself as well, I'm also not saying that the Ptolemies were spamming obelisks all over the place. They might have been relatively rare, but so were Ptolemaic settlements themselves... The account by Piny is only one account from 2000 years ago. The fact that we still have Ptolemaic era obelisks today also suggests there were more than 3 of them...
The thing is that the Ptolemies in 0AD need to be Hellenized, yes. But they shouldn't look like a generic Hellenic civ either. They should have a (historically accurate) Egyptian veneer, and what screams Egyptian more than a pair of (slightly downscaled) obelisks, sphinxes, and other Ancient Egyptian statues that were in fact used by the Ptolemies in their Greek settlements as decoration (and legitimization)?
With Ptolemaic settlement I meant any settlement controlled by the Ptolemies, which means hundreds of cities and thousands of villages. Ideally the Ptolemies could use a new architecture set that blends Greek and Egyptian influences (I'm quite fond of the Seleucid structures), but I realize that's a lot of work. Removing the obelisks from the civic centre and military colony can be done in minutes, which would improve historical accuracy. I'm not opposed to the obelisk per se, but I think it's inappropiate and unrealistic to have it included in these central structures. If map makers want an obelisk, they can use the existing other/obelisk.xml template.
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10 minutes ago, Sundiata said:
You argued to remove the obelisks from Ptolemaic buildings, so I illustrated that obelisks were still being made. So do you agree not to remove them? Just to scale them down? The base you see with the Phillae obelisk is original, by the way, putting it's total size at more than 5 meters, not taking into account any other pedestals or steps that might further increase the height.
Not huge, but not exactly small either...
Also, according to Pliny, Ptolemy II went to great lengths to transport an obelisk of Nectanebo to Alexandria... So there's no reason to believe that they only decorated their cities with "small" newly carved obelisks, but were using old, larger ones as well.
To clarify, I'm not saying obelisks didn't exist in Ptolemaic Egypt. My point is they were rare, certainly not something you would see in every Ptolemaic settlement. The fact that Pliny and others mention them illustrates how uncommon they were.
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Those Ptolemaic obelisks are a lot smaller (the one in the Met is under 2 m; the Philae obelisk is under 4 m); functionally they were similar to other Ptolemaic steles such as the Rosetta stone.
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They do not belong in Ptolemaic cities. Obelisks are something typical of the Egyptian Middle Kingdom (c. 2000-1200 BC), when they were erected in pairs near the entrance of major temples; there are some later examples, but obelisks never were as common as altars, columns, or statues. In Roman times emperors started shipping numerous centuries-old obelisks to Rome, but that's outside 0 A.D.'s timeframe.
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You can give the gaul theatre any cost you like, it doesn't have to be the same as the parent template; e.g. 600 wood + 150 metal and 0 stone is fine by me, I don't really care. My earlier remark was simply a reminder not to forget changing the costs in the gaul template.
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A few suggestions:
- enable workshops for all factions (D1761)
- enable cavalry stables for all factions
- enable elephant stables for all relevant factions
- disable “hellenic royal stoa”
- create a palace structure for mace, ptol, and sele (maur and pers already have one)
- make the fortress a purely defensive structure, unable to research or train anything
- give fortresses a territory root (D1762)
- move city walls to city phase
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Hopefully someone can remove those obelisks from the civic centre and military colony.
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5 hours ago, stanislas69 said:
I believe gauls actually invented them https://www.tonnellerie-cavin.com/barrel-history/?lang=en
5 hours ago, Genava55 said:From the Gallo-Roman period (2nd century AD I think)
5 hours ago, Genava55 said:Thanks!
Also, when you add the gaul theatre template, don't forget to change its costs:
<wood>0</wood> <stone>500</stone> <metal>500</metal>
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13 hours ago, stanislas69 said:
Thoughts ?
Could you replace the barrels with pottery or baskets? Stave-and-hoop barrels are well attested for the European Middle Ages, but I'm not sure they already existed in Antiquity.
Also, why the roof? It looks a bit heavy for the skeletal structure, especially in case of snow. If the purpose is to provide shade, perhaps use cloth instead? At least that's what was used in Roman theatres.
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3 minutes ago, Genava55 said:
Seems correct to me, only the name missing for binaries/data/mods/public/simulation/templates/template_structure_special_rotarymill.xml
That's intentional, specific names do not belong in generic parent templates, only in civilization-specific children (in this case structures/brit_rotarymill.xml and structures/gaul_rotarymill.xml, as it should be).
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Here you go: teamtimgeology.zip
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2 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:
@Nescio Are we nearing a submittable solution to our three little apples o' strife?
I would like to get to work on the units - we'd need a similar list, and here the research seems to be a lot better, almost only transcription inconsistencies as far as I can see. (It now mostly looks to me like as if a native Greek earlier on, had been advising the forum that his demotic were "correct" ancient Greek, and then proceeded to change all the correct transcriptions into wrong demotic ones?)
I did promise to do a lot of stuff in my original thread, and this is only one of them, so I had better get to work fulfilling the promises. We have some voices need recordin' and some Ptolemies need hellenizin' - if you will excuse my Nubian.
Before anything Greek can be committed, first some clear decisions have to be made about the transliteration, see https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25202-transliteration-of-ancient-greek-into-english/
But you can start checking and correcting the specific names of Greek units, if you like; see
https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/25284-specific-name-review-units/
1 hour ago, Genava55 said:I edited the previous message. More precisely, the language is the continental p-Celtic mostly based on the Gaulish but with some inclusions of the Brythonic which is thought to be very close at this time (pre-Roman era).
Thank you! Could you check D1757 ?
1 hour ago, Genava55 said:The whole references for each word and each roots?
Just a list of books, articles, webpages etc. you've used, to provide a starting point if people want to check something or find new words in the future.
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19 hours ago, Genava55 said:
I use mostly the Delamarre’s dictionary of the Gaulish language. But honestly, I have to made up some words because they are not known or they haven't existed at all. I try to avoid the most possible to build some name from different words but I haven't the choice sometimes. I didn't translate the taverne because the whole idea of a taverne as something characteristic of the Gauls bothers me. I suggested new buildings but it is up the team to accept it or not.
Thank you, that list looks useful! A word for kennel is missing, but otherwise I think your suggestions can be committed; that's for the team (@Itms?) to decide, though.
Out of curiosity, which of those words are attested and which ones were reconstructed? And are they all the same language (Gaulish)? Literal translations would also be nice to have, e.g.:
blacksmith: ὁ χαλκεών (forge, smithy)
Furthermore, could you list your sources, for future reference?
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1 hour ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:
Of course I will counter that the civic centre should be the centre of civic life, which is where the power resides. There was a square and marketplace but it was not the civic centre, there was no assembly but a representative of the king, and all important decisions generally had to pass by that representative in Seleucid and Ptolemaic settlements.
The individual satrapies had each their regional basileion, as the representative royal palace in which the satrap resided, such as the Seleucid satrapal basileion one of which is described by Polybios (10.31.5): συστησάμενος δὲ τὴν πορείαν ὡς ἐβούλετο καὶ παραγενόμενος ἐπὶ Τάμβρακα, πόλιν ἀτείχιστον, ἔχουσαν δὲ βασίλεια καὶ μέγεθος, αὐτοῦ κατεσκήνωσε.
To clarify, I'm not disputing political power was in the hands of the monarch and his representative(s); sure, royal palaces certainly did exist; I'm merely questioning whether a royal palace would be the most appropiate choice to represent the core of any settlement, not just a capital but also a village or minor town. In 0 A.D. the civic center is basically a structure with territory root where you can drop off resources, train basic citizens, and garrison units.
Also, satrapies can be best compared to EU member states; the Persian Empire had slightly under 30 satrapies; the Seleucids controlled at one point over half of those, but in the end were reduced to just one, Syria, which became a Roman province in 63 BC.
1 hour ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:Regarding war factory as ΠΟΛΕΜΟΥ ΕΡΓΑΣΤΗΡΙΟΝ see Xenophon
Thanks, found it:
ἀξίαν δὲ καὶ ὅλην τὴν πόλιν ἐν ᾗ ἦν τὴν Ἔφεσον θέας ἐποίησεν: ἥ τε γὰρ ἀγορὰ ἦν μεστὴ παντοδαπῶν καὶ ἵππων καὶ ὅπλων ὠνίων, οἵ τε χαλκοτύποι καὶ οἱ τέκτονες καὶ οἱ χαλκεῖς καὶ οἱ σκυτοτόμοι καὶ οἱ ζωγράφοι πάντες πολεμικὰ ὅπλα κατεσκεύαζον, ὥστε τὴν πόλιν ὄντως οἴεσθαι πολέμου ἐργαστήριον εἶναι.
In fact, he made the entire city, where he was staying, a sight worth seeing; for the market was full of all sorts of horses and weapons, offered for sale, and the copper-workers, carpenters, smiths, leather-cutters, and painters were all engaged in making martial weapons, so that one might have thought that the city was really a workshop of war.
— Xenophon Hellenica 3.4.17 (translated by C. L. Brownson 1918)
In other words, Xenophon does not specifically mean a workshop where siege engines are manufactured, he coins the phrase here to describe the state of affairs in the entire city, much in the same way modern historians used the words “war machine” to describe the US economy as a whole during the Second World War.
1 hour ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:εὐρυχωρία, yes we can go down that lane too! but didn't you just ask me to specify stathmos because it was too generic and could be used for anything??.
But we could make it an "open space for (of (the)) archers".
Yes, something like that; I suppose it depends on how one interpretes the “archery range”:
- a place to train and practice archery
- a place for archers to be housed
- a place to store weapons
- something else?
I'm inclined to go for the first option, hence my suggestion.
1 hour ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:Let us strike some compromises, consider the merits of the basileion especially: I would give up the Ergasterion Polemou and the Arsenal ideas, to me from a historical viewpoint the basileion is most important for accuracy.
It's not a negotiation, the purpose of this thread is simply to find the most suitable strings for the specific names in game, not to win an argument or something.
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10 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:
Agora on the other hand is pointless since it means 'assembly' and in absolute monarchies assemblies are completely pointless. If citizens were to 'assemble' in a city ruled by an absolute monarch, I think I can guess pretty quickly what would happen to them.
Yes, it means assembly, but also place of assembly and market-place. In Hellenistic times, many Near Eastern cities were refounded as Greek settlements, typically with an agora. (In contrast, royal palaces were usually limited to the capital(s).) The agora no longer had the political function it had in the Athenian democracy, but it continued to be the centre of public life, where citizens would meet, business was conducted, the latest news spread, announcements were made, people would look for customers, work, servants, artists, philosophers, etc. Its Roman equivalent is the forum, the centre of every Roman settlement founded during the Roman Empire.
10 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:Ergastḗrion Polémou is a nice expression from an actual writer of the period.
Is it? Ergastḗrion Polémou (workshop of war) sounded artificial to me; τό μηχάνημα (machine, mechanical devise, especially engine of war, used in sieges) and ἡ μηχᾰνοποιΐα (construction of engines of war) are not accompanied by πολέμου; but if it's indeed attested in combination with ἐργαστήριον, then I won't object. Could you give the exact location?
10 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:Concerning the archery range.
I believe this structure was only added because Age of Empires had one; it is available for mods, but not used in the default distribution; I hope that stays this way. Anyway, now it is included, it needs an appropiate name. It's probably not reserved exclusively for archery, but also for other ranged weapons, such as javelins. Perhaps this might be useful:
τὸ δ᾽ ἑξῆς τούτοις, οἰκοδομίαι μὲν εἴρηνται γυμνασίων ἅμα καὶ διδασκαλείων κοινῶν τριχῇ κατὰ μέσην τὴν πόλιν, ἔξωθεν δὲ ἵππων αὖ τριχῇ περὶ τὸ ἄστυ γυμνάσιά τε καὶ εὐρυχώρια, τοξικῆς τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἀκροβολισμῶν ἕνεκα διακεκοσμημένα, μαθήσεώς τε ἅμα καὶ μελέτης τῶν νέων
To pursue our subject,—we have described buildings for public gymnasia as well as schools in three divisions within the city, and also in three divisions round about the City training-grounds and race-courses for horses, arranged for archery and other long-distance shooting, and for the teaching and practicing of the youth
— Plato Laws 7.804c (translation R. G. Bury 1967)
ἡ εὐρυχωρία (open space) is not perfect, but seems more appropiate than “arsenal”.
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Checked with my LSJ; mostly fine; a few points, though:
- barracks: I'd recommend using ἡ στρατοπεδεία, ἡ στρατοπέδευσις, or ἡ στρατόπεδον (encampment) instead
- civic centre: it's probably better to stick to the agora for all factions; a royal palace is not the same as a city-centre
- elephant stable: just stathmos is too generic, it can basically be used for about anything; perhaps add ἐλεφάντων?
- towers: personally I dislike it the free-standing defence tower uses the same word as the wall tower; unfortunately I don't have a better alternative right now
- workshop: I opted for simply ergastęrion
6 hours ago, Anaxandridas ho Skandiates said:Ptol wonder, as with Macedonian wonder, we should seriously consider making new wonders. Actually the BASILEION of Alexandria, the royal palace which hosted the Mousaion and great library, is the REAL WONDER. Now that the Pharos is in already in the game.
Macedonian wonder was suggested a palace like that from Pella, in the similar style, wonder could also just be called Basíleion - or maybe Basíleion méga
Yes, I'd also like new wonders (and the removal of that Athenian “Hellenic Royal Stoa”), but that's a different discussion and belongs elsewhere.
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For future reference:
barracks: τό στρατόπεδον (camp, encampment) blacksmith: ὁ χαλκεών (forge, smithy) civic centre: ἡ ἀγορά (place of assembly, market-place) corral: ὁ ἔπαυλος (fold for cattle at night) council chamber: τό πρυτανεῖον (the magistrates' hall, town hall) dock: ὁ λῐμήν (harbour) elephant stable: ὁ σταθμός τῶν ἐλεφάντων (standing place for elephants) farmstead: τό ἐποίκιον (outhouse, farmstead) field: ὁ ἀγρός (field) fortress: τό φρούριον (fort, citadel, hill-fort) gymnasium: τό γυμνάσιον (gymnastic school) hellenic royal stoa: ἡ στοά (roofed colonnade, cloister; storehouse, magazine) house: ὁ οἶκος (house, dwelling-place) library: ἡ βιβλιοθήκη (bookcase; library, collection of books; record-office, registry) lighthouse: ὁ φάρος (lighthouse) market: τό ἐμπόριον (trading-station, mart, factory; market-centre) mercenary camp: ἡ στρατοπέδευσις τῶν μισθοφόρων (mercenary camp) military colony: ἡ κληρουχία (apportionment of land in a foreign country among citizens) palace: τό βᾰσίλειον (kingly dwelling, palace; seat of empire, capital; royal treasury) range: ἡ στρατοπεδεία τῶν ψῑλῶν stable: ὁ ἱππών (place for horses, stable) storehouse: ἡ ἀποθήκη (any place wherein to lay up a thing, magazine, storehouse) temple: ὁ νᾱός (temple; inmost part of a temple, shrine) theatre: τό θέᾱτρον (place for seeing, especially for dramatic representation, theatre) outpost: τό προφύλαγμα (outpost) sentry tower: τό πυργίδιον (diminutive of πύργος) defence tower: τό πυργίον (diminutive of πύργος) wall tower: ὁ πύργος (tower, especially such as were attached to the walls of a city) wall gate: αἱ πύλαι (gates of a town) wall: τό τεῖχος (wall, especially city-wall) (siege) workshop: ἡ ὁπλοθήκη (armoury) τό ἐργαστήριον (any place in which work is done, workshop, manufactury) -
@Imarok or @stanislas69, could you move this entire thread into the game development sub-forum and rename it to “structure specific name review”?
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@Anaxandridas ho Skandiates Thank you, that's helpful, I'll have a critical look at it later. For the archery range, perhaps try “practice field” or something similar? Also, ptol and sele wonders?
@Itms Could you check the Mauryan specific names, correcting where necessary, and find appropiate strings for the Mauryan archery range, cavalry stables, siege workshop, and wonder?
Also, Persians? (Old Persian, not Farsi.)
===[COMMITTED]=== Zebu Rigging
in Completed Art Tasks
Posted
By the way, it would be nice if you could also create their wild counterpart, the aurochs (Bos taurus primigenius), which is now extinct (since the 17th C AD), but was still quite common in Europe in our timeframe; its numbers decreased in Late Antiquity due to habitat loss and demand for Roman games (the Romans introduced bull-fighting to France and Spain).