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Aldandil

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  1. I'm half Danish, but Norse isn't available so I voted Roman. My Italian heritage is all Pescaran (Abruzzese), which is actually Samnites, Praetutii, Oscans, Vestini, and/or Frentani, I think, not Romans. I'm 1/4 Italian, but 1/4 is a mix of mostly French, English, and Scottish. Since the French didn't exist at the time and are descended from both Gaulish and Germanic-speaking peoples with some Roman thrown in, I figured my Celticness is actually less than my Italianness.
  2. OK, that clears things up a great deal... I thought demigod referred to myth units. Making Lithic archers into super units similar to unarmored plumed archers, and making them universally available at city phase, makes sense. Regarding shields and armor: Stone age people can and have used shields of wood and/or hide, but wooden armor is really awkward and leather armor isn't that great compared to metal armor. I don't know how armor and shields differ in game mechanics in an RTS, but I would actually consider switching these two, giving Lithics shield upgrades but essentially no armor. Basic citizen-soldiers would have no shield, Advanced ones would have a small hide shield or none at all, and Elite citizen-soldiers could have a less-small wood or hide shield. I think I'm getting a better understanding of why some civilizations don't have certain units. Thanks for explaining all this!Aaaannd... now is when I mention that I have never played an RTS, except for one single-player game of WCIII on somebody else's computer. I also have no income, and a graphics card too weak to handle such games so... I can't just go out and buy AoK. Besides, if/when I could/can afford a better graphics card, why would I bother when 0 A.D. will be free and more historically accurate? I can see why fire archers would be more a Sun Tzu thing... is he a planned Chinese hero? And would fire archers be anti-building units, or would they go after other units?
  3. I've been confused by the Godstorm terminology for a while now. There are mortals/mundanes, heroes, super units, and myth units. When you say demigods do you mean myths and supers, or just supers, or just myths? Or do demigods include heroes, or are there no heroes? And will you make all mundane units citizen-soldiers or support units, or will there be some mundane soldier-only units? And do supers count as myth units or as mortals? All civs get only 3 citizen-soldier units? I'm confused... the design document lists more than that. Is it a matter of tech trees before you can unlike the 4th, 5th, and so on? Even for technologies that existed for the civilization at the start of the relevant time period? It certainly makes more sense to give the Lithics just 3 to start, then, now that I know that. I feel silly, having missed that important info.This also explains why the Coun are cavalry. But do the Lithics get to research more units on tech trees, or whatever the usual way is of unlocking more units, or is 3 mortals all they ever get? Man, I don't know what fortress building refers to.... that's a phase after the starting phase, right? So archery would be like a tech they research and then add?Regarding the plumed archer: are the Lithics going to have any armor at all? Non-metal armor isn't something that would normally show up in archaeology so it could have existed and leave no record, but I'd still think no Lithic guys could have more than leather, so they'd be practically unarmored by default. No need, but I am getting lost. I'm still not following why the archer can't be a super unit instead of a mythical unit, but torch-wielding siege guy sounds great and fitting. Well, burning down buildings is more Vulcanus' thing, but this is war. I don't know anything about Sun Tzu, though. Makes sense. Yeah, and I only suggested explosions because I think fireworks are cool.
  4. I'm worried my previous post may have come across as somewhat hostile, and if so I apologize. Archers depend on the time-period you want Cro-Magnons to start at and how much they're supposed to be based on real human groups vs. be a fantasy concept. But their stone-age technology, by itself, isn't a reason to say they have no archers. There might be other reasons (economic? cultural?) for them to use very few archers in battle, though I think they should still have some, and in that case they'd be more of a super unit instead of a myth unit. What does "demigod" signify? Does your design require that all regular/mortal/mundane soldier units are citizen-soldiers? I think in 0 A.D. there are some that don't double as economic units, like super units, or something. I know that there have to be support units (like women and merchants) that are only economic. I just thought of something. Your Wolfdog, functioning as a cavalry unit, was intended as one of your citizen-soldiers, right? Dogs are certainly useful hunting animals, but presumably only when directed by a human, who for simplicity could just be a citizen-soldier with the dog(s) abstracted away during the hunt. They can't build buildings or gather wood/ore/stone. Maybe the Wolfdog could be a non-economic soldier and then you'd have room for a third Cro-Magnon citizen-soldier of whichever kind you want. I can't tell from the 0 A.D. design document whether Celtic Coun have regular citizen-soldier economic abilities. I don't know what the plumed archer is, since I've never played AOK, AOE, or AOM. If the city phase is supposed to represent the copper age, I'd put archery earlier -- if you keep 7000 BC as the start date I still think that archers can be available from the start. Agriculture, to me, is the biggest technology that can separate their phases. That starts around 9000 BC in Mesopotamia, and later elsewhere. Does "all-lithic demigod" refer to a myth unit that the whole faction can get regardless of major god? I don't know what your firestarter unit is meant to do in-game; but if regular archers can't do it, what about giving Prometheus archers with arrows on fire? Then they can shoot flammable buildings and ships from a distance (chance to hit; if they hit successfully, separate chance to set target on fire). But I admit I can't justify why other civilizations couldn't pull that off just as easily... hmm. I don't think fire arrows are planned for 0 A.D. I like the stealing/acquiring/copying technologies from other factions bonus. Though barracks may have existed in the Neolithic, I don't know anything about the subject myself, and can't think of any objection to removing that building for Cro-Magnons/Lithic People. It's function will have to be fulfilled by some other building, presumably. In fact, if it wasn't too much work, each civilization could have a unique set of buildings; that is, distribute the essential functions of buildings in a slightly different way for each faction. If you do decide to let Lithic Peoples tame horses, that would definitely be one tech to restrict to the city phase or later, since the date estimated in that archaeology blog article is 3500 BC, very close to the start of the bronze age. It would be weird to have them tame mammoths before horses, but adding cool mythological or fantastical abilities is kind of the whole point of your mod -- and necessary for game balance with factions like Lithic Peoples/Cro-Magnons I really want to see a Chinese god who can blow stuff up (instead of setting things on fire or hitting them with lightning bolts) because it's cool, but I have no clue at all whether that can be backed up by any myth. For that matter, I don't know if they had invented rockets by the end of the time span you chose for them.
  5. I don't understand. Archery was invented before 9,700 BC. That's archaeology. What is their starting date? What is their ending date? If either one of those occurs at or after 10,000 BC, then they should have archery. If you stick with 7,000-3,000 BC, then there's no reason they wouldn't have archery units from the very start. Even societies like the Greeks and Aztecs who didn't like archery and didn't use it much in warfare still knew how to make bows and shoot them. I think you're getting hung up on the word "primitive" and guessing what that must mean. Instead I would pick a time period and research what real world technology existed at that time. Archery was invented before agriculture, before copper. So was mining (for flint). So were javelins, atlatls, and barbed harpoons. Military barracks separate from the community center/ritual grounds, probably were not invented before agriculture -- though they would be appropriate for at least some neolithic cultures, perhaps the Maori during the pa era (I'm not an expert on that). Stone age people did engage (and still do engage) in warfare, usually in skirmishing fashion in small groups targeting individuals or small groups instead of engaging in large organized armies. You might have to give the Lithic Peoples large companies to make them playable versus other civilizations (or use quality of troops over quantity -- this is where mammoths and other tough, impressive myth units would be good, and make for a unique play style), but playability should be the first consideration. IMO if the Lithic Peoples are too crippled, they'll be boring and hardly anybody will want to find out whether they can successfully take on the Roman Empire. Regarding horse domestication and riding, let me look at that website I had up earlier...here it is: http://www.livescience.com/animals/091127-...rses-botai.html They found strong evidence of domesticated horses and horse-riding from a 3,500 BC copper age site in Kazakhstan. I should actually add that to my technologies list. I don't expect huge war canoes existed before 3,000 BC, and IMO warships probably wouldn't fit for Lithic Peoples. But I haven't researched this. I know people had boats quite early.
  6. But... bows and arrows and javelins and atlatls were all invented in the Upper Paleolithic, during the Ice Age... and your Lithic Peoples are supposed to go all the way to Neolithic... and they're supposed to be able to fight a battle against other civilizations... giving them only 3 regular units, in the whole game will make them unplayable and boring. If by 'primitive' you mean "no technology at all" then they shouldn't even be Homo sapiens. You can't call them stone age people and then... not give them stone age technology. Please look again at the list I gave you of when various technologies were invented. Here's that list again: mya = million years ago, kya = thousand years ago. This is a list of inventions and hominin species. 7 mya Sahelanthropus tchadensis 6 mya Orrorin tugenensis 5.8 mya Ardipithecus ramidus kaddaba 4.4 mya Ardipithecus ramidus ramidus 4.2 mya first Australopithecus 3.5 mya Kenyanthropus platyops 3 mya first Australopithecus africanus 2.5 mya Australopithecus garhi 2.5 mya stone tools (crude flake tools) 2.5 mya certain meat eating 2.33 mya first Homo? 2.3 mya first Homo rudolfensis 2.3 mya first Paranthropus 2 mya first Homo habilis 1.9 mya Australopithecus sediba 1.7 mya first Homo ergaster and Homo erectus 1.7 mya maybe use of fire? 1.65 mya crude hand axes 1.6 mya certain use of built shelters (my have been earlier) 1.37 mya sophisticated, artistic hand axes 840 kya boats 800 kya Homo antecessor 700 kya maybe use of fire? 600 kya first Homo heidelbergensis 500 kya certain use of fire (may have been earlier) 375 kya certain wooden spears (may have been earlier) 300 kya creation of fire, cooking 300-200 kya first Homo neandertalensis 250 kya burial of the dead, eating shellfish, certain hafted tools and weapons, certain wooden tools, paving floors with stones, Levallois flakes 250 kya certain hide scrapers (may have been earlier) 200-150 kya first Homo sapiens 130-115 kya quern/metate, eating fish 116 kya ochre crayons, certain core tools 100 kya carved ochre crayons 90-75 kya beads 75 kya bone and antler tools 70 kya bone awl 70 kya maybe ceramics? 70-60 kya microliths 32 kya atlatl, sewing needle, cave painting, carvings, trade networks, prismatic blades, certain basket weaving 28 kya textiles, ceramic figurines, fertile woman figures, nets, elaborate funerals, semi-sedentism 18 kya Homo floresiensis 15 kya built permanent shelters, frozen food storage underground in permafrost cellars 14 kya certain domesticated dog (may have been earlier) 14 kya ceramic pottery in e Asia and Japan (may have been earlier) before 9700 bc: herbal medicine, bows and arrows, barbed points, harpoons, pressure-flaking 9000 bc domesticated wheat in Mesopotamia 8000 bc pepo squash and bottle gourd cultivation in Mesoamerica 8000-7000 bc domesticated goats in Iran 8000-7000 bc domesticated hairy sheep in the Levant 8000-7000 bc domesticated cattle in Anatolia 7000 bc Asian rice and foxtail millet cultivation in China 7000-6000 bc domesticated cattle in the Sahara 6500 bc domesticated cattle in s Asia 6000 bc irrigation 5500-5000 bc banana and taro cultivation in New Guinea 5000-4000 bc plow 4300 bc domesticated maize in highland Mexico 4000-3000 bc domesticated llama and alpaca in Andes What are the starting and ending dates for your Lithic Peoples?
  7. Maybe I'm missing something, but what do the other Lithic Peoples tip their arrows with? I thought chipped flint was the thing to use before people get metal...
  8. I guess it would be a matter of archaeology to find out what metal weapons they had, and examining art to see if they left any images of shields or weapons or armor. There are pictures of ships, but I don't know that they're warships, and I don't know of any Minoan weapon finds. And my name has two Ds in it. AlDandil. I don't know anybody named Alan or Alandil. Heh, and only two Ls.
  9. Despite being set during the Trojan War which supposedly was during the Bronze Age, the Iliad and Odyssey actually depict society and warfare as it existed during the "Dark Age" of Greece, meaning the early iron age. For anything that purports to be based more on history and archaeology than on myth, it would be a bad source to use for Mykenaians.
  10. is spiti, not sniti. Woman is gine or ghini in modern Greek, gyne or gune in ancient Greek. I've seen gamma rendered as gh only in transliterations of modern Greek, and ypsilon rendered as u only in transliterations of Mykenaian or occasionally of ancient Greek. The ghu combination looks very bizarre and mixed up. I recommend gyne... then players can adopt whichever ancient pronunciation reconstruction they prefer. In fact, I recommend just adopting some specific (academic) transliteration method and using it consistently.
  11. Sounds interesting and cool. For the time period, Etruscans would probably be more interesting than Hellenes, plus they haven't been given a spot in 0 A.D. yet.
  12. Crosses didn't start out as religious items, of course. Even for Christians, the Fish was an earlier symbol of the faith. Anyway, I and others have suggested sacred grove trees, temples, shrines, Pyramids, Stonehenge, graves, altars, etc. In fact, for the first release (500 - 1 B.C.) there should be no Christian objects at all (except for the editor-only objects). Those would come in the second release (1 - 500 A.D., specifically the later half when it was legal to build churches and worship in them). I'm especially hoping for sacred trees (i.e., those marked by ribbons or garlands or unspun wool or whatever), graves, and small roadside shrines. In some cultures (such as ancient Greece) these were relatively common sights, but they aren't player-created buildings.
  13. Oh, you're planning to have a game that stretches into the modern day, aren't you? Yeah, that does pose a huge problem for Native American nations, unless you want to do alternate histories.
  14. Why would you use Viking invaders when the Native Americans had tons of different cultures in North America? If you want a "civilization" use Cahokia or the Anasazi, Calusa, or Northwest Coast.
  15. I said "of sorts." ... that could mean anything.
  16. While not every culture has necessarily left historical or archaeological evidence of it, I think it's fair to assume that every Homo sapiens society has had medicine and medical practitioners of some kind. And realistically, a soldier who has been shot in the stomach, or had a bone broken, or lost a limb, won't be put back together and ready to re-enter the fray on the same day. So unless you assume a flavor that injured but surviving soldiers only have minor injuries like bruises, you'll either have to give unrealistic (magical?) abilities to mortal healers, or replace them with actual magical effects, to make the game playable.
  17. The alpha is scheduled for this July, so a playable public release of sorts isn't far away unless disaster strikes.
  18. I don't have any expertise with Canaanites or ancient Hebrews so I can't offer a historically or mythologically specific opinion, but if you are wondering whether they should have a healer unit, ask yourself this: if they don't have a healer, what specifically could/would you give them instead (what hero, god power, or myth unit) and would you prefer to use that or a healer unit?
  19. I know. I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just pointing out that the Crusades happened many centuries after Christianity became Rome's state religion, so you have more options than just the Crusades.
  20. Well, there is a long time span between the ascension of Constantine I to the throne of the Roman Empire and the beginning of the First Crusade, and pretty soon after Constantine got the throne the official Christian religion become more militaristic (I have little idea what the unofficial, illegal "heresies" were like, but they weren't in control of the army so it won't matter for this); for example religious-military imagery is visible in the monuments of Justinian's reign. You could just as easily use the Holy Roman Empire or the Byzantines or West Roman Empire as the Crusaders. Whether you choose to focus on one of those tighter time periods or use a broader time period that covers many more-modern Christian European eras is really up to you. (OK, "Byzantines" also covers a big time period, but is more specific than "Christians.") If you do decide to tighten the temporal focus a renaming wouldn't be a bad idea, just to be more specific: it would be the equivalent of using Mandinka instead of generic "Muslims."
  21. I'd expect Persia, Carthage, and Macedon would have actual historical symbols, since they were each a unified state. Was that not the case?
  22. Yeah you're right, there's no need for accuracy with a capture-the-flag game. Solid player-color flags would work, but they'd look less interesting than faction-specific flags. What could you use for the made-up flags? Maybe you could pick images that cities in different civilizations put on their coins, but I don't know if the Iberians ever minted coins. Another option would be flags with small, stylized images of the front facades of very iconic and recognizable buildings: a Greek temple, for example. The Iberian tower is pretty distinctive, and if the Persians don't have a historical flag their Ishtar Gate would be a recognizable image.
  23. Actual capture-the flag, with immoble flags that stay in one hidden place and only move if an opponent grabs them and runs with them, would also be cool. The main difficulty is that several civilizations, such as Greeks, Celts, and Iberians, don't have a flag because there was no political unity. But if everyone just had a solid color flag of their player color, that problem is avoided.
  24. If you make the graphics too fancy, then the game may run at a snail's pace on any machine that doesn't have oodles of RAM and a super-amazing graphics card. At the very least, the really fancy effects like anit-alising and anistrophic whatever should be optional so folks with weaker machines can turn them off.
  25. Accurately re-creating even one ancient city in whole would probably be much more difficult than creating a map of the whole world. I only studied reconstructions of ancient Rome for one semester but... I think you don't realize what you're asking. It would rock but I don't believe it is possible, and if it was it would take years to program just Rome.
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