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Are they able to defeat other fully-upgraded champion spearmen one to one? Maybe Will To Fight could be differentiated for every civ or every civ category. Maybe have a big expensive tech common for city-states that alter stats in one way, then another for empires etc. Again, just riffing. Agreed. One on one, they should be able to beat infantry from other civs, but be lacking in other ways like economy, cavalry etc.

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There is no release video for 0.28.0, so obviously we had no one doing it. This isn't about some streaming their matches. It would still be desirable to have a release video for 0.28.0, if you are up for that would be fantastic, as it's the only release missing one. So better late than never. It would also be a project where you would need to learn most about what there is to learn making videos using the engine.

Some details at https://github.com/0ad-matters/resource_water/pull/2#issuecomment-4609666255 I couldn't figure out how to edit that post above and insert text after I posted the image. Maybe next time.

We have a couple of guys doing videos for YouTube, I think the more the better!

Nope, not a problem. I'd probably consider "antiquity" in Iran to last until the Muslim conquest. In the West, it was the German conquests, maybe even until Constantinople finally lost Rome.

Maybe read the discussion:) we are trying to figure out what they will do. Just kinda different types of civs that have things in common. And eventually it will be more clear tribals are better/most suited for X, city states are better/most suited for Y

I haven't read all of the current discusion, but what do these "groupings" do? Is there like a teambonus if I have an ally who is in the same group?

Spartans have a further limit on their champions which have excellent stats already. It does not have to be a hard limit, one idea is to have it as a percentage of current population. we actually did the opposite. There is no restriction on their champs… yes they are strong…. But champs can’t gather resources to produce more champs you can only train 3 helots per every champ…. Although you can train up to 10 without. i dont know how to do a percentage of population….. we also have it so spartiates take longer and longer to train as you phase up and tech up. So you need to mix in more helots and Perioikoi

In one of our versions we had a bonus where CS for Brit’s/gauls and more HP. Cause where they bigger/fiercer in stature say compared to the Romans? maybe I’m just thinking too much American dramatized Vikings on TV but could do something similar if it could fit for the tribes. All melee + 25 health or something.

Well I removed it for Sparta… but their military techs are a little stronger than the average, so by the time you get p3 full techs, they are still fully capable of fighting without it. For example we could start with city states -10% pop bonus. + 10% infantry attack (none of them really had great cavalry) no will to fight tech. although I still think if give Sparta a little something to be a little stronger at least infantry wise. Unfortunately we have touched the navy and almost never play on water maps. That should definitely be Athens strength over Sparta.

One other idea: Spartans were very wary of foreigners and heavily restricted their entry into their lands. In fact, they thought foreign influence would corrupt their youth. Maybe restrict their ability to trade as well as their allies' ability to trade with them? I also remember reading they used iron ingots rather than coins of precious metals as currency, but it sounds a bit like a myth. One thing is certain though: not a lot of Spartan coins are found in archeology. Another reason to penalize trade? What's on your mind

Yeah, actually we renamed it hoplite reforms. and I am now OK with the the of them getting the -10% pop bonus… even though Athens was maybe 2 to 3 times the size of Thebes… all 3 were by far the smallest of the 16 factions. Also I like maybe none of them having Will to fight, but stronger militiaty techs or something?

Very true. We can have their citizens be more productive but penalize the economy another way. Perhaps withhold some economic upgrades? I'm just riffing here On the other hand, maybe this is a good enough bonus for city-states. Maybe it can be adapted a little with a name change like civic pride.

Im throwing ideas around Sparta had manpower issues with respect to other Greek city-states. This was mainly due to their idea of a full citizen having the obligation to enter a Sysition with a regular donation, much like a membership fee. Over time, the number of upper class which could maintain this cost diminished. I guess, an ancient form of enshitification was in works . All Greek city-states had restricted manpower compared to empires. Considering both arguments, my proposal is: - Athenians and Thebans as well as Spartans have more restrictive population limits. - Spartans have a further limit on their champions which have excellent stats already. It does not have to be a hard limit, one idea is to have it as a percentage of current population.

Well generally barracks cost 200 wood 100 stone for most civs... but the tribal ones now cost 300 wood only, 20% faster build time but 20% less health and capture points.... similar to temples, forges, all of those things are wood only.

Agreed, i these should be stone building category with different durability as opposed to wooden buildings which are pretty much the rest for most civs.

So I like this, Sparta already has the -10% pop penalty... so it should apply to Thebes and Athens? Then Sparta may be strongest out of 3... Im tornn on citizens gather/military... on one hand sparta wasnt very eco driven right? on the other we use some melee bonus for some of the tribes as well... So we will definitely have to clean things up. All the city states have hoplite tradition

Yeah, I made most of their buildings cost wood, similar to the tech that already existed for "celts" but I towers, forts, and ccs are exempt

Proposal for city-states: - citizen soldiers have better gathering and combat stats (not sure which ones to improve), but are more expensive. City-states had limited manpower compared to larger polities, but they had higher civic spirit. - population cap is reduced by 10%. Similar thinking as above. - additional civic centers cost 50% higher. City-states did not expand like empires. All proposed city-states already have the theater to expand original area. Note: all of this is a nightmare to balance but worth a try in a mod

I am certainly not an expert by any means, but I believe, the Germans are potentially a good candidate (if we refer to their migration). Not so sure about Gauls or Brittons though.

In general yes, but Iberians have stronger towers than other civs in EA. They can be the exception though. Exceptions make the game fun!

Which civs would fall into this category?