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Ok lets play corral with sword infantery for pick the goat for wood we can palisade the entire forest

Well, fanatics do lose against sufficient infantry. But that doesnt mean its not a very strong tactic. For one, as reza mentioned, the rushing player will often head for the food economy first, as women cant defend themselves very well. And for that use case, having more power in fewer units is very strong, as a larger force gets noticed sooner and suffers more from blocking each other/pathing issues. Also, while it is definitely defendable when you pull together some troops, you have to consider two problems: 1. When the fanatic rusher has massed about ~20 fanatics, they can take on any soldiers you put on any extra metal/stone or a small woodline. And given their speed, you cant really get your main force, thats working somewhere else, to help in time. 2. There are major economic implications in fighting with all your cs. Of course, he invested a lot of resources to make the fanatics aswell, but if you are chasing 20 fanatics with 40 cs and fight them for like, 30s, you already lost 40•30•0.75=900 wood just by not using them to gather. That being said, fanatic rushes are not as easy to pull off as reza implies. They are quite costly and its not as easy to micro as cav (since they are still slower). Its a strategy that needs a lot of investment and skill and has potentially massive reward. Such strategies are very good for a video game and the fanatics shouldnt be touched at all imho.

@Dakara you can stop arguing with a guy who has never played a lobby tg lmao. and it's not fanas that are op, it's THE CIV. THE GODdarn CIV ITSELF IS OP. THEY GOT THE BEST CHAMP CAV, BEST ECO, BEST HERO, MOST ECONOMIC CHAMP, SLINGERS! ONLY WAY TO SAY THEY'RE WORSE IS THAT THEY DON'T HAVE BOLTS OR CATAS

We can argue about minor details for days, but until you show me some replays, I'm not going to reply to questions that have obvious answers.

then how you go attack his base for stop the fanatic spam? you send 30 spearmen CS acrros the map??

you picked mercenary XD plus how you do with a civ of archer? i'm agree fanatic OP on situation, not all time . If you build wall, have a civ with good civ, didnt start spam cav in 4vs4, etc, etc etc etc plus we don't know why gauls has a extra tech of food. You know this kind of bonus don't make civilizations unique, it just makes them unbalanced.

did you see the fanatic are not micro too? plus the distance unit are in circle

With fanas, I would say we are looking at a very strong unit, but not really "broken OP". "OP" gets thrown around a lot, but you have to remember that gauls are still pretty much the best eco civ. If you moved them over to carth for example, the balance would be very different. Lastly, I would say that since they are a specialty of the gauls, I think they deserve to be pretty strong. I'd sooner nerf the champ cav play for gauls than fanas.

deleting

Deleting

[20] There use to be a charge attack (doesn't fit). I guess they really are good and not letting me know. [19] Useless? There would need to be a comma in the legend. I thought it could be something about either blocking the way or preventing capture, but nothing that would fit. [12] Is that a new name? Diagonalo suggested it could be someone's full name. A high performing dev won't have much time playing or talking. [16] Already three letters filled. Someone please help!

Of course you can't. Going for a cavalry rush is almost always wrong, especially if you don't have enough APM or micro skill to use them. I sense that is your problem. Once the Fanatics arrive, you don't have enough infantry to stop them.

This is not how u balance units. Are you a dev? Its simple, fanas run fast, they run. They are not going to attack cs like what u tested. They target women on field for example. Or a small group of men which are mining etc. That totally will destroy enemy eco. Then at a critical moment the fana player send all soldiors and kill his opponent. And both are still in p2. Other problem is that u cant counter fanas with cavs. And its very hard to micro with cavs vs fanas because they run fast. As chris himself in his first post said, a group of fanas easily can kill lot of cavs! Which show how broken they are. Moreover why only gaul should have a super op anti cav unit? Because its favorite civ of chris he bonused it? Fanas already required metal in last alphas. Why they dont require it now?

I remember earlier alphas stopped music when you paused the game. Is this single-player?

Firstly, welcome back to 0ad. If you want the music to stop when minimised, just decrease it to 0 before the minimisation. Alternatively, you can write a GUI mod that does this. Useful command: Engine.PlaySound()

The key to beating fana is to not get into a bad fight. Dakara straight up said he didn’t have enough melee. No one is saying that fana are an awful unit. It’s the opposite where reza is saying that fana are always the best unit, which just isn’t true.

Yeah, I regularly use mass archers in my games without support. I also conveniently position them so that each Fanatic can reach them just fine. Oh, and I'm not even microing my units, because why would I? After all, I am not playing multiplayer, so I can't grasp such tactics. /s just in case, and I won't feed the troll anymore. I rested my case.

Dakara illustration is better than yours @Deicide4u. Somehow you can’t make sense because you don’t play multiplayer. Regardless of any illustration here you can’t compare the devastating effect of fanatics in game on TG. It’s a game changer. From starting at P2 up to the end where you can spam up to 25 fully upgraded (from blacksmith) infinitely, how can you stop it? I’ve seen it. Cavalry being microed as well as infantry they just dropped and when they killed all fanatics another more than 20 sets comes in again and again. as I’ve said they might get countered in 1v1 but in team game it’s going to be pain.

The fana player is going to be at a pop/resource deficit whenever they fight because fana are more expensive for a lot of reasons. A more realistic comparison might be where fana are outnumber by a 22:10 since that is the difference in their straight resource costs but, as you can see, they fana lose fights that are easier than that. The CS player also has the option to push earlier when the fana player will their weakest. it all goes to my original point that fana’s strength is very situational if you think t it should be a 1:1 comparison, that doesn’t make sense. Obviously the unit that requires its own specialized building and costs 2.2x as much should win in a 1:1 fight.

7 Fanatics not good enough for you? How about 10 Fanatics versus the same force? I didn't even micro the spearmen.

Isn’t it dumb to compare/equate 7 fanatics vs 8 spearmen and 12 promoted javelins?

I honestly think they're a little weak against inf. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though, because they should be an anti-cav unit, so they don't need to do well against inf. But fana aren't actually that good against cav right now either. The problem is that they're slower than cav so the enemy player can just run away. I've been most effective using fana when the enemy cav player misjudged how strong fana are against cav and took bad fights and prety ineffective with fana when trying to use them against inf or a cav player that just retreats. I think they need a slight speed buff.

To underline, the the CS, which cost 2000 in res, defeated the fana, which cost 1540 in res. The fana also cost more food, the slowest resource to gather, than the CS, so the 1540 vs 2000 res comparison understates how CS were fairly close in price and the below example shows it even more because that example has fana as more expensive. Moreover, the fana player had to build multiple temples, which cost adds extra cost and time, while the CS army was built those 20 units several minutes before the fana player even went p2. Consider that the CS player could easily push the fana player before this or get upgrades with those extra res cost and it is hard to imagine how anyone thinks fana are OP unless you let the fana player spam them or try to fight them with cav

this was made for @JC (naval supremacist)

8 basic spearmen and 12 javelineers destroyed seven fanatics, with all javelineers and 3 spearmen remaining. It took 5 minutes to setup the demo.