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Things don't change overnight; you need patience and to make "things work".

Exactly that's what I meant when writing that we all try contributing different things - expertise, historical accuracy, programming, art, music, voices, reviews, whatever. Please don't get discouraged. Your contributions are valued! And BTW this is true for everyones contributions.

My concern stems from the use of mods and repeated material in the campaigns. Imagine having many modes and many campaigns that redundantly use material, i.e., 3D and 2D art, even repeated templates, giving a large weight to the folders.

I can't understand how you can't just check them and see the speeds I mentioned are indeed those? What are you even talking about? And we have gone over this already once over 6 months ago, for which I have to say I must be a very bad lurker if I couldn't find more opportunities to cherry-pick instances to debate this issue, if that's what I actually want to do, according to you. The game is community driven, and I think it deviates from what the foundational documents describe. I don't know who is responsible in particular, and I don't care, since that's not even the point, no matter how much you want to hurl strawman accusations. I'm interested in the game the foundational documents describe, and if that has to be scratched out, fine, I would still think that it proposed a better game, and that there were well thought reasons for it. If all of that is so confronting to you, I'm really sorry, but that's what I think, and you just have to get over it, instead of reacting with highly inappropriate and nonsensical remarks demeaning the time I've invested, unless your intention is for people to leave to wherever their work is actually appreciated. It is, quite literally, an example of someone leaving for a reason similar to what others have stated. I'm not claiming it's the main and only reason why people do so, that's yet another strawman. In any case, I think this is way more abstract than the speeds I've mentioned before, so I don't even see it as a big problem (while I understand his view), and in fact I did state in that thread that stuff like that "would be interesting to have as Achievements" (but that's it, a challenge, a curiosity, not something that could end up having so much weight in the outcome), but sure, let's just ignore most of what I actually write for the sake of your indignation. Well, you know, it's actually quite hard to do so when being told that it's worth "so little" at the end. I'd like to see someone reading Morrison's book first, and then considering dozens on top of that, to have a grasp of how much "nerve" and "confidence" it would take to label summarising all that information as "so little", or if that wouldn't actually be a better descriptor of how much clue and shame one has to have to say such absurdity. Wasn't the rule "less than me, more than you"?

Well pointed out @Perzival12! To add one more: Actually, I believe all contributors are somehow fanatics - they devote a lot of time into progressing the game because it is fun and as long as there is even a community valueing all the effort it remains great fun. 0AD has a great (bullshit bingo warning ) "value proposition": It is free, it aims at historical accuracy where possible, it is beautiful (!), it has a game play that can be enjoyable and demanding at the same time, and everyone can contribute and modify it as desired. Try finding that combination elswhere. No, we are not aiming at breaking the gaming charts. We all want to have fun. (sorry for the pathos, couldn't resist)

In that case, 0ad is alive and kicking Yeah, you have to be here at least a year to start assigning criticism /j I would like to quickly point out the following, obvious (but strangely overlooked so far) points: A: no matter what we do there will be trolls and @#$%s, that’s the nature of humanity. B: there is this strange idea that the game is only known to people who have been playing it for years and can “reach 100 pop in -7:00”, the number on new posts both on these forums, Reddit, and Discord (bots not withstanding ofc) tells me otherwise. C: this idea that FOSS stuff is often unpolished/obscure is becoming less and less true over the past year or two, FOSS games are a lot less niche then they used to be (partly because of the rise in Linux games lately). D: a quick point I would like to make is that, while it’s not necessarily true yet, in future months/years people will become more and more fed up with AAA and AI games, and turn more and more to FOSS projects. Just hang in there!

Could we possibly make it compatible to 0.28? Or should lilypoppy's mod only apply to the next release 0.29? (which will be released sometime next year anyway, I hope)

I could not find any evidence for clubs. The warbands themselves are mainly attested in early medieval legal and mythological texts. Some of those stories are set in the 2nd or 3rd century but that does not necessarily mean the Fianna existed back then (although they migh be from a common earlier Celtic/Indo-European tradition). In any case the main weapons in the epics are spears and occasionally swords. A similar unit for the coastal fort could be a sort of Caledonian mercenary since they appear to have had ties to Ireland . They would have tattoos and fight with swords and small shields. https://europabarbarorum.fandom.com/wiki/Colgacilioi_(Caledonian_Swordsmen)

I agree that I find this complex. And once I have my scenarios, how will it work?

Not sure at all if this map is using an equal area or isogonic projection For sure it aims at "iso-balancing".

@lilypoppy is right - let's stop argueing and make the game a bit better every day (in differnt ways, software, maps, historical accuracy, voices, music, artwork, mods, whatever). We all do know that there are still miles to go if we arrive ever. As an engineer I dare stating that a product you ran out of improvement ideas for is essentially dead.

Whatever our opinions, we agree on one thing: we all love 0 A.D. That love is what brought us here, and it's what makes this community special. I feel lucky to have met so many passionate people, and I'm putting that energy into Burning Heart, the narrative campaign I'm leading. I'd be honored to have you follow along. Thank you all! https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/170017-devlog-burning-heart-a-narrative-campaign-for-0-ad/

What should we do with the artwork that isn't part of the base game? Should it be downloadable content for the campaigns? In the future, they shouldn't be mods.

@lilypoppy This mod has the Lusitanians think the current version is only compatible with alpha 29 @Lopess @Duileoga

Hi @Ultimate Aurelian what is the mod ? Yes, I'll make sure I have the Lithuanians

Of course it bothers me when you say things like this: I can't understand how you can say that SC2 is slower. I doubt you even play it. But it doesn't matter. You’ll find very few people on this forum pointing fingers at those they believe are responsible for this project’s lack of success, and you’re one of them. And I’m not even sure you know who you’re pointing fingers at. That’s perfectly fine. You don’t have to be interested in it. A challenge that originated within the community itself, presumably lacking the credentials of representativeness that, for some reason, you have the authority to assign after some months roaming the forum. Very similar challenges can be found in undisputed successes of the genre, just have a look at the aoe2 challenges. But to you, this is an example of why people leave this game: “because it’s too fast, poor devs whose hard work was co-opted by an unrepresentative group.” Well, I don't find anything funny about it

Or ask to use mod assets from Duileoga maybe. Ideally the Iberian civ could be reworked to be purely Iberian in the future (I think there is still potential for a purely Iberian campaign focusing on Indibil ).

Ah yeah this map, I guess it has to mercator-project even harder for proper balancing.

lol wasn't this thread originally just about some map editor thing with a provocative generalized title? now this thread was "hijacked" to match that title. still, maybe these topics could be separated. Fast clicking is not the same as building out fast btw. Even in old turn-based games like Civ1 you're gonna lose if you "idle" (though admittedly you'll be much more aware of "idling") and you learn to optimize your build-out-strategy. So in principle there is no way around learning to build fast enough in this type of game. Also for the AoE series I see a lot about "booming" doing web searches. Maybe there could be different game modes, but these will require different balancing. 1vs1 is already quite different than 4vs4. I like to play against many (allied) AIs on a giant map because I just like the epic-ness of that, the "history" and tales that may unfold in your head here. The game is not very balanced or fine-tuned for that but I can "improvise". Finally you get to meaningfully build walls and all for better protection of your bases while most of your army is campaigning away, that sort of thing. But maybe this is the experience some players are looking for and what the original documents (things should never be set in stone btw anyway) hint at when referring to "historic accuracy" and things like that. Problem of course, it's an open source project, and for general gamers not familiar with that, this sort of "free games" have a reputation of not being very polished, and it's true in the case of 0 A.D., the staff is lacking to cater properly to newcomers, and there isn't authoritative quality control. One of my opened issues was closed (perhaps I should have discussed in the forums first admittedly) even though it is a CLEAR AND OBVIOUS thing for anyone even remotely interested in good game design. But yeah, "typically open source".

@guerringuerrin I do think it takes some nerve to say I've demonstrated so little when for months I've gone through dozens of books to properly source fixes for historical mistakes. For days now I've been updating a PR fixing Ancient Greek language guidelines, with @Vantha's help. What do I have to demonstrate? That I can reach 100 pop in less than 7:30? There are things I'm interested in, and there are things I'm just not, and I've just tried to help with the first. And honestly, I don't think I have anything to demonstrate to you before expressing my opinion anyway. You like to assume I've been reading just since I signed up, when I've done it for months before that, and I've read plenty of posts going back years. You like to assume I'm looking for posts that fit my own view of the game, when they just pop up often (like this over two-months-and-a-half old thread, in which only now I posted! Maybe think about that if you think I'm SO bent to "telling everyone how things should be done"), or are referenced by something new (like the 100 pop thread), so hardly cherry-picking. If you and others just want to ignore them then that's your choice, but it's just not mine and I'm in my absolute right to support them. The statistics mentioned are for AoE2 as reference (no matter if you want to portray that as if I "conducted some kind of data analysis study of the community"), that those speeds are 3x faster than SC2 is a fact (and pointed out by many in the past), and the foundational documents state what I've quoted, and more (I recommend everyone to read them, actually). And I'm sorry if something I've said offended you, some stuff was meant more as humorous than aggressive, but it seems you took some things the wrong way for then to completely disregard what's being said (which, again, is what I just stated in the previous sentence) and basically attack me.

What strikes me is the confidence with which you talk about a community you don't even know, lurking around threads and cherry-picking opinions that fit your own view of the game. What's more, you have the audacity to make arguments based on percentages as if you had conducted some kind of data analysis study of the community, when in reality, you're interacting with barely 10 people on the forum. It takes some nerve to come here and tell everyone how things should be done when you've demonstrated so little. And I'm genuinely surprised by how someone can be so confident in their opinions while telling everyone how things should be done when they've demonstrated so little, let alone making claims about an MP community and player base they don't know at all.

Well, it's not the profile of most people here, considering the nature of the game, you might have more luck in a roleplaying forum (or maybe something on Reddit?), or, you could make a mod where it makes sense to have more complex diplomacy, commerce, and so on, and hope for the best (or you could check existing mods for one that is more aligned with that).

I didn't took me the time yet to review them.

Here is my improved Mediterranean skirmish map, spent lots of time on this so hope you enjoy. Factions are pre set: Carthage, Roman Republic, Egypt, Iceni, Macedonians, Seleucid Empire, Lusitani, Germanic Tribes. mediterranean_diplomacy.zip

I think it all boils down to the fact that 0ad is a great game in essence but does not have such a great online community, a lack of willingness to try new things or enthusiasm to do anything but rush build, fight, win or lose style matches, take my roleplay discord for example, i started that with a lot of enthusiasm thinking people would be interested in trying it out but apart from 2 people mainly just one person the lack of enthusiasm has been saddening and has also resulted in myself losing enthusiasm to do it, not meaning the forums or any you guys of course.